Poll: Do Power Conditioners Help or Hurt ?
Jun 23, 2011 at 12:20 PM Post #31 of 42
For further illustration, here's what the inside of the basic B-P-T CPC looks like. It starts at $499 ($399 on Audiogon), and you can basically go to the moon with it. That's one of the things I like about B-P-T, both the CPC and the balanced transformer models can be configured basically any way you want them.
 

 
 
 
 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 4:02 PM Post #32 of 42
I've been doing some reading on BPT and basically they offer incredible value over the competition. Their BP-1 Ultra, for instance, is going for just $849.00 over at Audiogon. But at 40 lbs and 10 outlets, it's way too much (in the physical sense) for my needs. The CPC is more reasonable, but BPT should consider adding models tailored to smaller high-end systems...
 
Quote:
For further illustration, here's what the inside of the basic B-P-T CPC looks like. It starts at $499 ($399 on Audiogon), and you can basically go to the moon with it. That's one of the things I like about B-P-T, both the CPC and the balanced transformer models can be configured basically any way you want them [...]
 


 
 
 
Jun 24, 2011 at 1:39 AM Post #33 of 42


Quote:
I've been doing some reading on BPT and basically they offer incredible value over the competition. Their BP-1 Ultra, for instance, is going for just $849.00 over at Audiogon. But at 40 lbs and 10 outlets, it's way too much (in the physical sense) for my needs. The CPC is more reasonable, but BPT should consider adding models tailored to smaller high-end systems...
 

 
I agree that BPT offers a lot for the money, particularly with the BP-1 which I think can compete with very expensive stuff when used with headphone setups or very low powered amplifiers. Keep in mind that the weight and size is pretty much entirely due to the transformer. They could offer one with only two outlets similar to the Furman IT Reference 7i, but the unit would still be basically the same size. You don't have to actually use all 10 outlets you know (and the GFCI outlet is really there as a protection mechanism, so there are only 8 outlets that you'd want to use). I'm sure Chris would be happy to build you a CPC or BP-1 with a single high-end outlet with all the trimmings on it, and leave the rest in the basic config.
 

 
 
 
Sep 21, 2011 at 10:38 PM Post #34 of 42
A lot of the really helpful advice in this thread, and in a few older ones, led me to purchase the Sola MCR.  I got a nice deal on a NOS model from an official distributor who is phasing out their Sola gear.  The MSRP is pretty pricey, though nowhere near Shunyata prices!
 
This thing is heavy!  Some users have reported using 120lb+ cvts, and this 70lb anchor was troublesome enough to move around.  I got rid of the budget Monster cable strip I was previously using and plugged my GES and gamma2 directly into the cvt.
 
I wasn't really expecting much difference in the SQ.  I mostly bought the cvt as insurance for the BHSE I have on order, as I would probably have a heart attack if a surge damaged it.
 
I tried a listening session immediately after turning on all my equipment and was disappointed.  Everything sounded considerably more thin and insubstantial than I had remembered.  I wasn't too surprised though, as the GES does not sound very good until it's been on for at least an hour.
 
After an hour passed, I tried another critical listening session.  The difference was subtle but unmistakable.  The 'fuzziness' I had attributed to tubes and a sub-optimal amp for the O2s was mostly gone.  The biggest difference is that everything just sounds cleaner now.  The bass is a little tighter, the trebles are more crisp and defined, and the O2s have a little bit more of that electrostat sound, where the music just seems to materialize out of thin air.  The effects weren't as dramatic as some audiophiles have written, but they were appreciable.  I also now have the peace of mind that my gear is protected from everything short of a direct lightning strike or super soaker.
 
In conclusion, for a low or mid-fi user, the SQ did not increase enough to justify the price.  For someone who skis the slopes of summit-fi, I'd say it was worth it.  More importantly, however, is that this should do a better job protecting gear than much more expensive audiophile power conditioning gear.  Cvts can regularly be found in hospital, lab, and manufacturing surplus sales.  If you don't care for aesthetics, you can get a unit which needs to be wired, and save another 70-80%.
 
There's a downside to the cvt: it gives off an audible hum, somewhere between a desk fan between medium and high speed.  With loud music it's not noticeable, but at healthy listening levels, it's a little annoying.  I'm going to try moving it 20-30 feet away and use extension cables to connect the cvt directly to the amp and DAC to minimize the hum.
 
Sep 21, 2011 at 11:46 PM Post #35 of 42


Quote:
There's a downside to the cvt: it gives off an audible hum, somewhere between a desk fan between medium and high speed.  With loud music it's not noticeable, but at healthy listening levels, it's a little annoying.  I'm going to try moving it 20-30 feet away and use extension cables to connect the cvt directly to the amp and DAC to minimize the hum.


For me, that's enough to end it right there. A B-P-T or Silver Circle may hum if there's excessive DC on the line, but otherwise they shouldn't make any noise. An Audience will never make a sound and can be carried with one hand, there's a price to pay for all of that convenience of course. The only thing I allow to be more than 0dB in my system is my PC, and I've gone to considerable lengths to make sure that it's quieter than the 30ish dB noise floor of the room.
 
 
Sep 22, 2011 at 1:04 AM Post #36 of 42
I had to end up moving it to a closet, which almost completely cuts out the hum, and once headphones are on, the hum is pretty much unnoticeable.  Since it gets hot, though, I'll need to stick a fan in the cabinet to make sure the air circulates.
 
For a 0db solution, I agree that this is far from ideal.  I chose it an overkill solution endorsed by the DIY/engineering type.  My biggest priority was protecting the gear on the other end of the line, and in this case, the more iron and the heavier it is, the better.  I've read good things about the Audience and probably would've gone in that direction if I had different priorities.
 
On the bright side, it means I get to run cabling on the other side of the room, so shielded power cables are a lower priority.
 
Edit: Interestingly enough, Steve Nugent agrees with some people who have said that shielded power cords do sound worse:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil
Quote:
Empirical testing has shown that standard shielded 14 gauge stranded power cord sounds less dynamic than unshielded 14 gauge stranded cord when used with audio components that benefit from improved cords. The impedance of the AC electrical system is extremely low and susceptibility to magnetic and RF fields is extremely low for power cables so the benefit is questionable at best. Unfortunately, some of the commercially available shielded cords appear to make some systems sound better, but are actually "tone controls" for taming badly matched or designed components. There is some benefit to shielding if you are trying to protect unshielded nearby unshielded interconnects from the fields generated by the cord itself.

 
 
Sep 22, 2011 at 1:26 AM Post #37 of 42
I got one of those APC S1500 power conditioner/voltage stabilizer/battery backup back when they were only $250 on Vanns.com.  What an insanecrazy deal, it used to cost 1500 bucks, and it weighs 70 pounds...works great!
 
Sep 22, 2011 at 1:38 AM Post #38 of 42


Quote:
Edit: Interestingly enough, Steve Nugent agrees with some people who have said that shielded power cords do sound worse:
http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil
 

 
I agree, for normal runs of 1-3 meters there's definitely an argument to be made for not shielding, especially when you can use a complex wire geometry that has some self shielding properties, as opposed to the typical 3-wire twist. For a 20 foot AC cord though, shielding may start to make some sense. I think the majority of the high-end power cords out there are not shielded.
 
That said, I've told the story before of my old Dynaudio nearfield monitors buzzing every time my smartphone checked for new emails. GSM is known for being noisy, and the unshielded stock AC cords picked it right up. I replaced the stock cables with some PS Audio Prelude cords, and the buzzing was gone.
 
 
 
Sep 22, 2011 at 2:26 AM Post #39 of 42
Reminds me of when I used to leave my cell phone on top of my cheap Dell Optiplex at an old workplace.  Actually, that reminds me of a bug that Dell had, where incoming calls on certain phones (within close physical proximity of the Optiplex) would actually reboot the computer.  It took us awhile to figure out what was going on, and he was pretty peeved after losing more than a few spreadsheets and ppt decks!  I still remember the ever-present hum in the IEMs I used to run directly from the front-panel headphone out, which would completely go away as long as I was touching the metal chassis.
 
I'll be running two 25ft Monoprice 14awg cables from the closet to my audio setup (one for amp, one for DAC), but the cables won't be anywhere near any other cables except each other, so hopefully it'll be fine.  Eventually I'd like to try out the Oyaide PA-23 cables for everything, but I think that money will be going into the SR009 fund instead :)  It was a pain trying to find a short flat plug extension that's 14AWG.  I actually couldn't explicitly find one, so I hope the Panamax one I ordered is 14AWG like all the cables for the rest of their equipment.
 
scooter: I love the avatar, especially considering the business you're in
biggrin.gif

 
Sep 22, 2011 at 4:16 AM Post #40 of 42



 
Quote:
Reminds me of when I used to leave my cell phone on top of my cheap Dell Optiplex at an old workplace.  Actually, that reminds me of a bug that Dell had, where incoming calls on certain phones (within close physical proximity of the Optiplex) would actually reboot the computer.  It took us awhile to figure out what was going on, and he was pretty peeved after losing more than a few spreadsheets and ppt decks!  I still remember the ever-present hum in the IEMs I used to run directly from the front-panel headphone out, which would completely go away as long as I was touching the metal chassis.
 
I'll be running two 25ft Monoprice 14awg cables from the closet to my audio setup (one for amp, one for DAC), but the cables won't be anywhere near any other cables except each other, so hopefully it'll be fine.  Eventually I'd like to try out the Oyaide PA-23 cables for everything, but I think that money will be going into the SR009 fund instead :)  It was a pain trying to find a short flat plug extension that's 14AWG.  I actually couldn't explicitly find one, so I hope the Panamax one I ordered is 14AWG like all the cables for the rest of their equipment.
 
scooter: I love the avatar, especially considering the business you're in
biggrin.gif


Was the Optiplex the same machine that was known for exploding motherboard caps or something like that? I have to admit I've never heard of the "reboot by phone" feature. That's crazy.
 
Neotech also makes a nice DIY AC wire for around the same money as the PA-23 called the NEP-3003. I think you had asked about connectors - the Marinco 5266 and 320IEC are the default choice. The 320 is a little bit expensive compared to the cheaper Schurter IECs, but it's worth it. Furutech AC connectors are really nice, but not cheap.
 
 
Sep 25, 2011 at 11:56 PM Post #42 of 42


Quote:
PS Audio power re-generators FTW.


In my experience, not really. The old models were space heaters and power hogs. The PPP solved those issues (though it still required a cooling fan) and I'm sorry but the quality control on those was flat out terrible. I'm not sure if it was the Chinese factory they used or just bad design, but PPPs died left and right, including my own, which fortunately had nothing connected to it when it kicked the bucket. One person here reported a dead PPP taking out equipment. If that happened to me I would be absolutely livid. A power conditioner is supposed to protect equipment, not destroy equipment.
 
As if that weren't enough, they just don't sound all that great. The performance is decent, but PS marketing makes it seem like regeneration is the holy grail and it is not. The very best balanced transformers and models like the AR6-TS and Dmitri do a better job.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top