[money4me247]

  I find this info quite interesting. I don't think I've owned hp's that have real leather...

aren't the sennheiser momentums with real leather?

 

[Placid]

I know this maybe a bit off-topic, but i really wanted to know if anyone who had problems with the Pleather flaking ever try to take the remaining flakes off as well?
 
I've been using my Sennheizer HD 448 for more than 2 years, then the flaking started. Now more than half of the Pleather is gone in my earpads and the the pleather on the headstrap is totally gone (used a pair of tweezers to get em off, took some time 

 the ones remaining at the earpads are still still sticky and hard to tweez).
 
Since i bought myself a new pair of headsets, I was wondering if there is anyway to just get the remaining Pleather off (they seem to still stick), with a solution of something. I really want to hand-me-down this headset for my daughter who sometimes cant here the movie she's watching on the tablet i got her (and i dont wanna see her ears get flakes after use

).
 
I dont want to buy a new pair of earpads coz they cost alot here locally at the sennheizer store, i would rather find a way to deal with the remaining flakes and let it remain as a cloth earpad.
 
Any suggestions if you guys can direct me to any cheap solution/liquids that can be used? any help would be appreciated.
 
 
Thanks in advance. 

 

 

[GarageBoy]

  I'm not in a position to comment on pleather vs leather but I do know I've been disappointed with the (probably v. cheap) pleather on some Sennheisers.
 
This is what's happened to my HD497. Obviously they're a few years old. However, they've actually seen little use, been kept out of direct sunlight and wiped after use. They haven't been kept sealed and it's not humid here. As I said, disappointing, especially the headband.
 

 

 
 
 
The minimal padding on my PX100 is splitting in the same way. If I really wanted too, I supposed I could replace the pads but obviously that's not an option for headband padding.
 
 
Sennheiser, I expected better.

The pads on the PX100 are replaceable 
I remember redoing mine

 

[HugoFreire]

Do you guys know if too much dryness also makes pleather crack and peel off?
 
I'm keeping my HE90 spare parts in a vacuum bag with some silica gel inside and I'm wondering if this will help them to last longer or actually have a negative effect (i.e. cracking due to excessive dryness)...

 

[HugoFreire]

I've researched about the topic above and here are some of my findings for those who are interested:

The correct amount of silica will keep the pads protected from humidity effects and mainly from humidity variations, which I believe is the main cause for cracking (beside excessive heat and direct sunlight incidence, which should be obviously avoided). This paper provides a very good explanation on the effects of humidity on materials.

Too much silica will cause excessive dryness (less than 40% RH) and may cause the material to become brittle but (again) the right amount should work. A lot of regular density silica (the most common one) would be needed to make the RH level dangerous. Here is a great FAQ on silica quantity and buffering capacity.

 

[petuloo1984]

Just my two cents about pleather. This is 400 dollars headphones Audio Technia ath-es10.This is after 3 years on not very heavy use,less than average.It is peeled off everywhere plus not breatheble,so you get really sweat.

 

[rikk009]

My Brainwavz pleather pads have started shredding in just 10 months of indoor use.

 

[KeithEmo]

Sort of as aside.....
 
The last few wallets I've bought were EELSKIN. Eelskin is very much like thin soft leather, and can be used in most of the same places. However, at least in the wallets I've had, eelskin seems to hold up to wear MUCH better than leather or pleather (at least in terms of the abrasion and light wear you're likely to encounter with headphones).
 
I'm wondering if anyone has ever used eelskin for headphone pads... it seems like it would work well.

 

[Earbones]

Sort of as aside.....

The last few wallets I've bought were EELSKIN. Eelskin is very much like thin soft leather, and can be used in most of the same places. However, at least in the wallets I've had, eelskin seems to hold up to wear MUCH better than leather or pleather (at least in terms of the abrasion and light wear you're likely to encounter with headphones).

I'm wondering if anyone has ever used eelskin for headphone pads... it seems like it would work well.

Eelskin would probably make terrific pads...

When it comes to headphone pads, I'd put my money on high quality leather over pleather for durability any day. Not to mention breathability. I don't know the specific pleather and leather used in the durability tests the OP references, but I'd bet it's heavier stuff. The test was probably comparing car seat material or institutional upholstery... As far as very thin, supple material suitable for headphone pads goes, I've never seen a pleather that comes to close to a good leather for durability. Also, the bit about leather requiring "toxic chemicals" is not accurate. There are definitely toxic chemicals to clean leather in the marketplace, but leather certainly doesn't require them... People cleaned and conditioned leather for milennia without chemicals. In fact, the majority of modern chemical cleaners actually damage leather over time. Anybody who knows anything about caring for nicer leather sticks with the natural cleaner conditioners... There are literally thousands to choose from.

 

[KeithEmo]

I agree - with some qualifications. Personally, I tend to sweat a lot, especially when wearing headphones, and a lot of leather doesn't seem to deal well with getting wet. (Although I'll concede that pleather is more likely to make you sweat to begin with.) To me chemicals are a "non-point". Arguably, producing leather has always required chemicals (in the old days things like lye and animal urine were the natural chemicals used; today who knows what they use). However, plastics also contain chemicals, so I have no reason to even guess which is better for you or the environment. Likewise, when well cared for, leather seems to hold up well, but I've seen lots of leather in very sad condition.... and an equal amount of plastic....
 
Honestly, the main virtue I see for the fake stuff, besides water tolerance, is price (which is often but not always true). The ear pads on my Koss ESP/950's are very thin very comfortable pleather. I haven't worn mine out, but I'm told they don't hold up well at all.... but I can replace them for less than $10 a pair. This allows me to not worry about sweating into them, or even about tearing them. (Whenever I have headphones with leather or velour pads, while I find them very comfortable, I'm always worried about getting them all sweated up.)
 
(And I'm still waiting for someone to do eelskin...

 
Quote:

Eelskin would probably make terrific pads...

When it comes to headphone pads, I'd put my money on high quality leather over pleather for durability any day. Not to mention breathability. I don't know the specific pleather and leather used in the durability tests the OP references, but I'd bet it's heavier stuff. The test was probably comparing car seat material or institutional upholstery... As far as very thin, supple material suitable for headphone pads goes, I've never seen a pleather that comes to close to a good leather for durability. Also, the bit about leather requiring "toxic chemicals" is not accurate. There are definitely toxic chemicals to clean leather in the marketplace, but leather certainly doesn't require them... People cleaned and conditioned leather for milennia without chemicals. In fact, the majority of modern chemical cleaners actually damage leather over time. Anybody who knows anything about caring for nicer leather sticks with the natural cleaner conditioners... There are literally thousands to choose from.

 

[Earbones]

Oh definitely, that's not to say I don't think there is some quality pleather out there... I enjoy my Brainwazes pads very much, and while I'm aware they won't last forever, like you pointed out, they are cheap to replace.

For whatever reason I read the bit about toxic chemicals as the OP stating that leather pads required them for upkeep, to prevent them from drying out and cracking and such... Which simply isn't the case. For instance, there are dozens of simple oil products (one ingredient), that clean and condition leather beautifully. As for the production of leather... Again, I agree with you. There are both clean and toxic ways to tan leather today, and often it's unclear how the product you have was produced. But either way, plastic products are always produced with toxic chemicals, so like you say, six of one half dozen of the other.

Leather breathability is determined by the glaze of the hand, that is, the specific hide and how it is prepared. Fine leather can actually be oxygen permeable, which is a step beyond even what the garment industry considers breathable. On the other hand, cheap leather, or even a nicer hide prepared with, say, paraffin, can be nearly as impermeable as pleather, and nearly as water resistant in some cases. As far as headphone pads go, it's a balancing act between the permeability/breathability and water resistance, I imagine.

It's funny, in the garment industry, there is so much discussion about the performance of various leathers, and in the headphone industry, it's widely ignored. Sure, we talk about "how nice" some leather pads on high-end cans are, but none of the manufacturers are getting into the performance end of things in that regard. Kind of funny when we're all sweating (pun. ha.) much more minute details such as cables...

Seems to me that rather than manufacturers simply choosing between pleather, microfiber, and leather, they might consider delving deeper into the specifics of the leather, and attempting to achieve maximum performance. A marketing angle there, if nothing else.

 

[KeithEmo]

Your last statement is a great point - and perhaps suggests a market gap for some new products.
 
The reality is that the audiophile industry is actually quite small, and is very much a niche market, with fads and flops, like fashion. Fifty years ago, any "decent" tube amp had a chrome plated chassis, and we knocked on transformers to judge quality (because good transformers were potted with rubber or wax - and ones that sounded hollow were "junk"), but the most expensive equipment came with cruddy interconnects that Radio Shack would be ashamed to sell today, and, to connect your speakers, you wrapped your speaker wire, which was ordinary 18 gauge lamp cord, around an ordinary screw in a brown plastic strip and tightened it. And, I should mention that, back then, an "expensive" pair of headphones was fifty bucks.
 
My guess is that it's a combination of the facts that nobody's though of it yet, and that the pads used on a lot of expensive headphones arereally nothing to brag about. I've seen a few "fancy custom made are ear" - and it sure seems like there would be a market for more - but you sure don't see them talked abut much. I should also note that the price of ear pads is also all over the map. For example, the ear pads used on most Stax electrostatics run between $59 and a LOT more for a pair, but the ear pads for Koss's $1000 ESP/950 electrostatics, which are comfy but quite cheesy, are $10 a pair. At this point there doesn't seem to be much logic to it.
 
Quote:

Oh definitely, that's not to say I don't think there is some quality pleather out there... I enjoy my Brainwazes pads very much, and while I'm aware they won't last forever, like you pointed out, they are cheap to replace.

For whatever reason I read the bit about toxic chemicals as the OP stating that leather pads required them for upkeep, to prevent them from drying out and cracking and such... Which simply isn't the case. For instance, there are dozens of simple oil products (one ingredient), that clean and condition leather beautifully. As for the production of leather... Again, I agree with you. There are both clean and toxic ways to tan leather today, and often it's unclear how the product you have was produced. But either way, plastic products are always produced with toxic chemicals, so like you say, six of one half dozen of the other.

Leather breathability is determined by the glaze of the hand, that is, the specific hide and how it is prepared. Fine leather can actually be oxygen permeable, which is a step beyond even what the garment industry considers breathable. On the other hand, cheap leather, or even a nicer hide prepared with, say, paraffin, can be nearly as impermeable as pleather, and nearly as water resistant in some cases. As far as headphone pads go, it's a balancing act between the permeability/breathability and water resistance, I imagine.

It's funny, in the garment industry, there is so much discussion about the performance of various leathers, and in the headphone industry, it's widely ignored. Sure, we talk about "how nice" some leather pads on high-end cans are, but none of the manufacturers are getting into the performance end of things in that regard. Kind of funny when we're all sweating (pun. ha.) much more minute details such as cables...

Seems to me that rather than manufacturers simply choosing between pleather, microfiber, and leather, they might consider delving deeper into the specifics of the leather, and attempting to achieve maximum performance. A marketing angle there, if nothing else.

 

[virustwin]

I've practically seen so many claims on different threads that leather is more durable than pleather. As an Industrial Designer, we also study material/component composition. It is a general rule in design to build the skeleton first to support the outer aesthetics. Unfortunately, some manufacturers doesn't follow this to cut costs.

To answer the question is leather more durable than pleather? No, pleather is more durable, if manufacturers follow the correct manufacturing of pleather that is.

To cut costs, manufacturer sometimes skips on "cloth lining" manufacturing and simply paints the "pleather" coating over the foam.

Example of these are the Sony's MDR-V6/MDR-7506 ear pads, pleather is simply pressed into the foam, which in time will flake and crumble like bread. On the otherhand, Sony's XB series has the pleather sewn onto the cloth lining which will make it durable. Manufacturing process is the problem.

Pleather manufacturing = > PVC and PU made into film (Blow film extrusion) > PVC/PU film combined with cotton and material passed between rollers to make the surface shiny (calendering) > Cooling > Finished.

Cheap pleather skips the calendering process. Properly manufactured pleather should stand 200,000 rubs or 54 years. While, leather can stand for 100,000 rubs or 27 years. Pleather cleaning only requires wet cloth. Leather requires toxic solutions. Leather is more prone to cracking and sun damage.

When other factors are considered, PLEATHER becomes the more sustainable choice! Then, why buy leather? Luxury, comfort, and cooling feel on skin (it does get sticky on hot weather)

Why not Pleather, it is hot on skin and not breatheable, otherwise it is twice more durable than leather and cost less to manufacture. In addition, pleather is a polarizing material which helps control/engineer sound. Leather is not always consistent (quality varies). Not every cow or sheep is the same.

Durability: Pleather (w/calendering process) > Leather > Pleather (w/o calendering process).

How do you care for your pleather headbands and ear pads? simply wipe them after use, bringing a soft cloth is very handy. Do not allow them to be soaked in water.

Hey mate. I appreciate your perspective and I realise that this thread is ten years old . But as a leathersmith and audiophile, I have a different opinion on some of your points. Please, no arguments here, simply a different perspective so here goes (I’ll be as brief as possible because I do to like to type):
Too much generalisation is happpening here because under the umbrella of “fake” leathers, there exists vegan leather, PU leather, bonded leather, leatherette etc. these are all effective faux leathers. Then there’s the fact the pleathear can literally mean any of the ones I listed above. Within that circle, some are stronger and some are less durable (if we’re sticking strictly to the durability here). With natural or “real” leather, there is also generalisation that takes place. Notice I deliberately avoided saying “genuine leather”. I’ll say why in a sec. This is where many get the concepts wrong (I’m not implying you btw, just speaking broadly). For example, you can’t walk into a tannery and say give me a side of leather please. They’ll probably stare at you blankly . That’s because you haven’t specified the animal, tanning process, the quality (how it’s split), natural, finished , dyed etc. there are more parameters but with you experience in the field of industrial design so this may serve to be of more use to others not in the field. The way natural leather is split denotes many things about it including it’s durability etc.

I've practically seen so many claims on different threads that leather is more durable than pleather. As an Industrial Designer, we also study material/component composition. It is a general rule in design to build the skeleton first to support the outer aesthetics. Unfortunately, some manufacturers doesn't follow this to cut costs.

To answer the question is leather more durable than pleather? No, pleather is more durable, if manufacturers follow the correct manufacturing of pleather that is.

To cut costs, manufacturer sometimes skips on "cloth lining" manufacturing and simply paints the "pleather" coating over the foam.

Example of these are the Sony's MDR-V6/MDR-7506 ear pads, pleather is simply pressed into the foam, which in time will flake and crumble like bread. On the otherhand, Sony's XB series has the pleather sewn onto the cloth lining which will make it durable. Manufacturing process is the problem.

Pleather manufacturing = > PVC and PU made into film (Blow film extrusion) > PVC/PU film combined with cotton and material passed between rollers to make the surface shiny (calendering) > Cooling > Finished.

Cheap pleather skips the calendering process. Properly manufactured pleather should stand 200,000 rubs or 54 years. While, leather can stand for 100,000 rubs or 27 years. Pleather cleaning only requires wet cloth. Leather requires toxic solutions. Leather is more prone to cracking and sun damage.

When other factors are considered, PLEATHER becomes the more sustainable choice! Then, why buy leather? Luxury, comfort, and cooling feel on skin (it does get sticky on hot weather)

Why not Pleather, it is hot on skin and not breatheable, otherwise it is twice more durable than leather and cost less to manufacture. In addition, pleather is a polarizing material which helps control/engineer sound. Leather is not always consistent (quality varies). Not every cow or sheep is the same.

Durability: Pleather (w/calendering process) > Leather > Pleather (w/o calendering process).

How do you care for your pleather headbands and ear pads? simply wipe them after use, bringing a soft cloth is very handy. Do not allow them to be soaked in water.

 

[virustwin]

sorry, im following on from my original response above (this is why i hate typing on my phone lol). anyway, with everything i said earlier, ill summarise by saying this. If you specify "real" leather, you must designate which level/state of leather you are referring to because i can guarantee you that real leather as an umbrella is more durable than any faux leather and by considerable amount. this is how i can guarantee you that i make the best faux leather (pick any one) wallet for you and then make you the best leather wallet out of 100% full grain bovine leather with natural leather linings, and even canvas, your grandchildren can use the real leather wallet (with care over the years of course - and i do have to disagree with your statement about treating real leather because I use leather conditioners that are actually good for your skin as well and typically you only need to treat it twice a year if you're frugal. a very well made faux leather wallet will eventually disintegrate, regardless). plus there's the smell of natural ....snifffff....aaaaahh - happy. that one's a bonus. but the genuine Lether issue i mentioned? yeah, while a handful of tanneries can produce decent "genuine" leather, its considered us (artisans) to be the lowest quality real leather due to it being actually meant to be discarded as the remnants of the splitting process (after we've gotten our top grain, suede etc from a hide) but companies said "hey lets take that stuff and make stuff with it and lets brand it genuine leather (technically not lying, although often its mixed with other stuff that's not leather). that's why people keep buying genuine leather wallets, yes even from the biggest brands) and keep wondering why they keep having to replace it every few years.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

All pleather pads on my phones crumbled over time. Replaced leather still holds strong for many years. Same goes to pleather seats in my old cars.
Is it some green party sponsored thread?