[msing539]

Would it be wrong to assume, that there are more affections linked to products such as the D9200, where neither resell price or relative obsolescence is a factor?

If I understand the question right...

There are products that I end up feeling personally attached to. But they're only things that bring some amount of happiness, not things for convenience.

A washing machine doesn't make me happy, no matter how good a job it does, so I'll never be attached to one. My car, I can get the thrill of speed and enjoyment of comfort, so I am attached to that one. When it breaks, I'm sad, not just regarding the financial aspect, but because I've become fond of the car.

Same with certain headphones. Some I feel attached to, some I don't. I generally try to sell a headphone before I become too attached, but in the case of the Elite, D9200, the attachment is already there. So they'll stay.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So, have you ever replaced an entire product because a small component had a failure, and it was too pricey to replace? Or maybe upgraded a product because it just couldn’t do the same as the new ones?
What ever it is, it would be a big help and much appreciated.

I. Audio gear

a. Replaced due to component failure
1. Countless cables (most of them stock), more on IEMs or in the car, where the problem isn't near the TRS plug
2. Many beater IEMs (ie most expensive is the Shure e2c)
(Sidelined) Meier Cantate.2. I need to have it fixed but not willing to totally give up on it. Using a Schiit Asgard 3 in the meantime. Can relegate the Schiit to back up or swap them out when I have the Meier working again.


b. Upgraded due to obsolescence/compatibility, or just my own changing needs
1. Little Dot MkII. I still have the HD600 I bought it for but even if that wasn't bad driving it, it just wasn't as good as my Meier Cantate.2 on it and more importantly, on lower impedance headphones.
2. SuperPro 707 because when using via USB the analogue output goes from 2V to something like 6.5V.
3. A string of car stereos, due to changing processor needs or later, when CD changers just can't compete with the iPod or Androids, including just getting a newer car with a modern stereo.
4. Car processors. Either built into head units or now, one that can work with factory stereos - basically I get all the processing I need from this and then add an amp and change speakers without gutting the stock receiver that isn't a DIN-standard unit anymore on current cars.
5. Home audio tower speakers and standmount speakers. Worked fine at the condo my parents rented for my brother and I back in college, totally effed when I moved in back home (traffic wasn't as big a problem if your only concern is making it before 9am and going home at 6pm without having to deal with term papers as much) due to acoustics at the old house with concrete outer walls and wood inner walls. And now I'm on Head-Fi.

c. A little bit of both
1. Marantz CD60. This generation of Marantz CDPs and the equivalent Philips machines are notorious for the constant breaking of the CD tray mechanism on the Philips transport they used. I constantly replaced it, as the components were cheap and easy enough to find on eBay (albeit the shipping cost being the problem). But eventually I realized it wasn't reading some CDs and it wasn't from a misaligned laser, but that it doesn't understand instructions on newer CDs with PC media to move the laser out to get to the normal audio content. Replaced by "iModded" 5.5g 120gb.
2. iModded 5.5g. Got replaced by a Samsung Galaxy S3 so I only had one device in my pocket when on the go, and works via digital out at home.
3. String of Android phones, firstly because they'd be slower and T-Mobile either offers new phones cheap then I give the phone to younger cousins or nephews, or even some of my aunts who don't use newer phones (heck I actually also just get some of my phones used from my brother as we only really need one upgrader to kick off a chain reaction). More recently, T-Mobile was buying them back, and my SGS7 Edge was really fckn slow even after factory resets.
4. SGS9. I didn't really replace it totally ie I'm still using it, I just stopped using it because Android had another update that nixed USB audio output so I replaced it with the Hidizs AP120 as my audio server but now just via its own line out. Need to replace OLED screen, but still works for the following though:
a. A second sim card
b. Streaming Spotify to the Hidisz AP120 (I have my main phone working as remote for the FLAC on the AP120's SD card)
5. An old Sony HU because its CD changer stopped working
6. AKG K66. Used to just be an auxiliary with an iPod, but the cable broke and I gave up on speakers at that point, and that's how I ended up with the Sennheiser HD600 in 2010. I still have that headphone but might add a K702 or HE400i/Susvara to it soon.

II. Non-audio or non-audio specific gear: all a little bit of both for most unless otherwise indicated.

1. Core2 Duo Vaio workstation laptop. Can't find a replacement battery, can't play some lighter games I'd much rather play on a laptop in my room than go run the desktop in a room that really requires running the A/C. Replaced by a cheap 15.6in with an AMD APU.

2. Acer 15.6in with AMD APU. Can replace battery, but at this point I really needed portability and if I need to, I can run the desktop and then stream light games that don't care about latency to it via Steam (that other room still gets hot, but I'm not in there so as long as the desktop doesn't overheat, no problem).

3. Lenovo Yoga 11. The chassis just started crumbling. Repairs will cost as much as a new one...decided to get an HP notebook.

4. HP notebook. Not totally replaced, but since I replaced the desktop with an octacore, RTX 3060 gaming laptop, I'm working primarily on the latter with the touchscreen HP running some side apps like for when I need to take notes, check something else online so I don't switch windows, etc.

5. A string of desktop parts and whole PCs. i7-2700 rig had a graphics card update, then eventually my brother just gave me his Skylake rig. That thing in turn was in an older chassis and at some point the non-grommeted cut outs cut the CPU power cable and shorted it. Still kinda works, but won't overclock the CPU anymore and is noticeably slower on the 1% lows on Total War games (I didn't take actual FPS but I was getting way more stutters, ie, how it worked on older quads when not overclocked).

6. iPad2. Got stolen along with my Note3 in 2018. Using a cheaper Samsung tablet, S9, and MotoG 5G now.

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

If I understand the question right...

There are products that I end up feeling personally attached to. But they're only things that bring some amount of happiness, not things for convenience.

A washing machine doesn't make me happy, no matter how good a job it does, so I'll never be attached to one. My car, I can get the thrill of speed and enjoyment of comfort, so I am attached to that one. When it breaks, I'm sad, not just regarding the financial aspect, but because I've become fond of the car.

Same with certain headphones. Some I feel attached to, some I don't. I generally try to sell a headphone before I become too attached, but in the case of the Elite, D9200, the attachment is already there. So they'll stay.

Let me know if I didn't answer your question.

It surely did, thank you!

When you buy or replace products, of any kind, are you at some point thinking about aspects such as overconsumption and waste streams?

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

I. Audio gear

a. Replaced due to component failure
1. Countless cables (most of them stock), more on IEMs or in the car, where the problem isn't near the TRS plug
2. Many beater IEMs (ie most expensive is the Shure e2c)
(Sidelined) Meier Cantate.2. I need to have it fixed but not willing to totally give up on it. Using a Schiit Asgard 3 in the meantime. Can relegate the Schiit to back up or swap them out when I have the Meier working again.


b. Upgraded due to obsolescence/compatibility, or just my own changing needs
1. Little Dot MkII. I still have the HD600 I bought it for but even if that wasn't bad driving it, it just wasn't as good as my Meier Cantate.2 on it and more importantly, on lower impedance headphones.
2. SuperPro 707 because when using via USB the analogue output goes from 2V to something like 6.5V.
3. A string of car stereos, due to changing processor needs or later, when CD changers just can't compete with the iPod or Androids, including just getting a newer car with a modern stereo.
4. Car processors. Either built into head units or now, one that can work with factory stereos - basically I get all the processing I need from this and then add an amp and change speakers without gutting the stock receiver that isn't a DIN-standard unit anymore on current cars.
5. Home audio tower speakers and standmount speakers. Worked fine at the condo my parents rented for my brother and I back in college, totally effed when I moved in back home (traffic wasn't as big a problem if your only concern is making it before 9am and going home at 6pm without having to deal with term papers as much) due to acoustics at the old house with concrete outer walls and wood inner walls. And now I'm on Head-Fi.

c. A little bit of both
1. Marantz CD60. This generation of Marantz CDPs and the equivalent Philips machines are notorious for the constant breaking of the CD tray mechanism on the Philips transport they used. I constantly replaced it, as the components were cheap and easy enough to find on eBay (albeit the shipping cost being the problem). But eventually I realized it wasn't reading some CDs and it wasn't from a misaligned laser, but that it doesn't understand instructions on newer CDs with PC media to move the laser out to get to the normal audio content. Replaced by "iModded" 5.5g 120gb.
2. iModded 5.5g. Got replaced by a Samsung Galaxy S3 so I only had one device in my pocket when on the go, and works via digital out at home.
3. String of Android phones, firstly because they'd be slower and T-Mobile either offers new phones cheap then I give the phone to younger cousins or nephews, or even some of my aunts who don't use newer phones (heck I actually also just get some of my phones used from my brother as we only really need one upgrader to kick off a chain reaction). More recently, T-Mobile was buying them back, and my SGS7 Edge was really fckn slow even after factory resets.
4. SGS9. I didn't really replace it totally ie I'm still using it, I just stopped using it because Android had another update that nixed USB audio output so I replaced it with the Hidizs AP120 as my audio server but now just via its own line out. Need to replace OLED screen, but still works for the following though:
a. A second sim card
b. Streaming Spotify to the Hidisz AP120 (I have my main phone working as remote for the FLAC on the AP120's SD card)
5. An old Sony HU because its CD changer stopped working
6. AKG K66. Used to just be an auxiliary with an iPod, but the cable broke and I gave up on speakers at that point, and that's how I ended up with the Sennheiser HD600 in 2010. I still have that headphone but might add a K702 or HE400i/Susvara to it soon.

II. Non-audio or non-audio specific gear: all a little bit of both for most unless otherwise indicated.

1. Core2 Duo Vaio workstation laptop. Can't find a replacement battery, can't play some lighter games I'd much rather play on a laptop in my room than go run the desktop in a room that really requires running the A/C. Replaced by a cheap 15.6in with an AMD APU.

2. Acer 15.6in with AMD APU. Can replace battery, but at this point I really needed portability and if I need to, I can run the desktop and then stream light games that don't care about latency to it via Steam (that other room still gets hot, but I'm not in there so as long as the desktop doesn't overheat, no problem).

3. Lenovo Yoga 11. The chassis just started crumbling. Repairs will cost as much as a new one...decided to get an HP notebook.

4. HP notebook. Not totally replaced, but since I replaced the desktop with an octacore, RTX 3060 gaming laptop, I'm working primarily on the latter with the touchscreen HP running some side apps like for when I need to take notes, check something else online so I don't switch windows, etc.

5. A string of desktop parts and whole PCs. i7-2700 rig had a graphics card update, then eventually my brother just gave me his Skylake rig. That thing in turn was in an older chassis and at some point the non-grommeted cut outs cut the CPU power cable and shorted it. Still kinda works, but won't overclock the CPU anymore and is noticeably slower on the 1% lows on Total War games (I didn't take actual FPS but I was getting way more stutters, ie, how it worked on older quads when not overclocked).

6. iPad2. Got stolen along with my Note3 in 2018. Using a cheaper Samsung tablet, S9, and MotoG 5G now.

Thank you for the very elaborate answer!

In relation to your thoughts toward obsolete products, failed or not. - Do you think that these failures or functionality issues are an intentional attempt by the manufacturers ensuring that you are spending more money sooner than expected. Or do you believe it is just out of normal wear and tear?
If so, is products with issues, of any kind, making you avoid the given brand or model?

 

[msing539]

It surely did, thank you!

When you buy or replace products, of any kind, are you at some point thinking about aspects such as overconsumption and waste streams?

You mean like beer? JK

Do you mean overconsumption from the entire market or me, personally?

Laptops are mostly electronic waste, right? Even if you recycle them, I think most still end up in a landfill. But I sell mine while they're still functional. They never sit around to the point where they're so obsolete that I trash them.

Phones are different though. They're so expensive for what they are, granted they get a ton of use. With phones, I only buy used and outright, I never buy or lease a phone from the carrier... that's part on principle and part me being thrifty.

Some phones still have value beyond being used as phones though. I just recently sold my old LG V30 and V40 for use as DAPs. But I have other old phones I can't do anything with, like some HTC stuff... old. Those are sitting in a drawer, really don't want to trash them, but they're pretty much useless.

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

You mean like beer? JK

Do you mean overconsumption from the entire market or me, personally?

Laptops are mostly electronic waste, right? Even if you recycle them, I think most still end up in a landfill. But I sell mine while they're still functional. They never sit around to the point where they're so obsolete that I trash them.

Phones are different though. They're so expensive for what they are, granted they get a ton of use. With phones, I only buy used and outright, I never buy or lease a phone from the carrier... that's part on principle and part me being thrifty.

Some phones still have value beyond being used as phones though. I just recently sold my old LG V30 and V40 for use as DAPs. But I have other old phones I can't do anything with, like some HTC stuff... old. Those are sitting in a drawer, really don't want to trash them, but they're pretty much useless.

Is overconsumption of beer possible?

I think I just tried to get your general thoughts regarding the electronic waste streams, which are partially created by obsolete products, or our behavior as consumers.
When you are selling your used laptops, is that out of an economical aspect, or out of an environmental thought?

When you are buying secondhand phones, aren’t you afraid of potential damages, i.e., in batteries?

 

[msing539]

When you are selling your used laptops, is that out of an economical aspect, or out of an environmental thought?

When you are buying secondhand phones, aren’t you afraid of potential damages, i.e., in batteries?

Selling the laptops are primarily economical. I use the value of the old one to offset the cost of the new. Similar for me with headphones.

Regarding phones, no concern. If it lasts three years and I paid $300 to own it outright, that's still significantly cheaper than a $1000 lease of a new phone from the carrier.

Yes, I have had a used phone fail after a year, so $600 for that 3 year period vs. $300. Still significantly cheaper than the lease option.

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

Selling the laptops are primarily economical. I use the value of the old one to offset the cost of the new. Similar for me with headphones.

Regarding phones, no concern. If it lasts three years and I paid $300 to own it outright, that's still significantly cheaper than a $1000 lease of a new phone from the carrier.

Yes, I have had a used phone fail after a year, so $600 for that 3 year period vs. $300. Still significantly cheaper than the lease option

When you are buying used items and selling products, laptops, phones, headphones, etc., is that primarily private sales? Like directly to other users, or are you utilizing the possibility of companies that acquire and sells used products?

I don't know if those businesses are as common in the US, as it is becoming in Denmark?

 

[msing539]

When you are buying used items and selling products, laptops, phones, headphones, etc., is that primarily private sales? Like directly to other users, or are you utilizing the possibility of companies that acquire and sells used products?

I don't know if those businesses are as common in the US, as it is becoming in Denmark?

I haven't used a company like that... It's always private sales, unless you count eBay, since they take a fee for the auction listing.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thank you for the very elaborate answer!

In relation to your thoughts toward obsolete products, failed or not. - Do you think that these failures or functionality issues are an intentional attempt by the manufacturers ensuring that you are spending more money sooner than expected. Or do you believe it is just out of normal wear and tear?
If so, is products with issues, of any kind, making you avoid the given brand or model?

That depends on a case by case basis. I'll go through the same list.

I. Audio gear
a. Replaced due to component failure
1. Countless cables (most of them stock) : I tend to see cables less as "the ultimate conduit for sound between components" and more like "we need these to be good, and by good I mean that includes durability." So while they fail the latter, not all the cables that failed are just inept manufacturing, just "you get what you pay for."
2. Many beater IEMs (ie most expensive is the Shure e2c) : Again, it depends. The e2C was from when detachable cables just means the replacement cable costs more than some IEMs and those IEMs suck. Now you can get pretty decent IEMs and very cheap cables with connectors for IEMs. That said, note that not all these failures were all on the cables and having someone disassemble and do a soldering job too expensive. KZ's are utterly notorious for just randomly kicking the bucket, for one. But still it kinda seems just as much "you get what you pay for" as it is "they want me to buy another one."
3. (Just sidelined, not getting replaced) Meier Cantate.2 : Not intentional. Heck it's easier to find the op-amps on this than some dedicated audio discrete components. Problem is I can't get a repair tech that understands how active ground works, they measure, and claim it's fine. No bro it's not fine, the sound sucks! And it's supposed to measure weird when it actually sounds fine (if you don't know how to probe an active grouind amp).


b. Upgraded due to obsolescence/compatibility, or just my own changing needs
1. Little Dot MkII : It's deliberately designed to drive high impedance headphones, which I didn't understand at teh time meat that it would kinda suck vs low impedance loads. It's a design compromise, not a delvberate attempt to make you buy another one.
2. SuperPro 707 : Deliberately dumb design.
3. A string of car stereos : Not really deliberate and malicious. These have moving parts and designed to work in a moving car, Even if you account for that there's still wear and tear higher than what you'd edxp
4. Car processors. Tech marched on. Mazda wanted a clean dash, got rid of the LCD panel; other manufacturers followed. I don't want to mess around with factory GPS. Ergo: integration processor.
5. Home audio tower speakers and standmount speakers. My needs changed.

c. A little bit of both
1. Marantz CD60. Not deliberately done to get more money out of me. But still really, really, really dumb design. Still, I really gave it up thanks to not being able to read newer CDs with PC content, something they couldn't have foreseen in the early 1990s.
2. iModded 5.5g. It actually lost to the SGS3 because, well, I get to use only one device. But before I had it iModded Apple said they don't have the batteries for it anymore and they just tried to give me a discount on the 160gb 6g. Uhhh...no thanks, I just need a freaking battery!
3. String of Android phones : T-Mobile offers new phones at low prices so it's tough not getting one since you don't feel like an idiot camping out for a $1000 phone. You just waited six months for them to offer your two generations older phone to trade for the new one.
4. SGS9 : Freaking OLED. I'm still using it but still. F OLED. I mean sure I don't think they designed it to break, they just didn't realize OLED is the Ferrari of screens except you can maintain a Ferrari properly and at least not have something major break while you're moving fast so it doesn't break anything else (if not the entire car).
5. An old Sony HU : Again, more of technological advances. 10+1 CDs vs an iPod in a high noise floor environment.
6. AKG K66. Removable cables weren't common at the time. I still wouldn't buy these again though because the new ones still don't have it.

II. Non-audio or non-audio specific gear: all a little bit of both for most unless otherwise indicated.

1. Core2 Duo Vaio : Even if I can fix it newer processors will have more processing power vs power consumption.

2. Acer 15.6in with AMD APU. Same problem as the Vaio.

3. Lenovo Yoga 11. Total POS after about 2yrs. And to think I liked the keyboard, if at least compared to other short travel keyboads at the time.

4. HP notebook. Not totally replaced, and can use it as an auxiliary since my new gaming laptop is replacing the gaming desktop more. Just ordered a new battery actually.

5. A string of desktop parts and whole PCs. Again...tghere's that processing power vs power consumption improvement.

6. iPad2. Might have gotten stolen but by that point it was starting to f up and slow down. One thing I have to hand to Apple though: the battery was still not that bad when ti was stolen.

 

[eobet]

This article seems like a good reference for the topic:

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/23529587/consumer-goods-quality-fast-fashion-technology

We are sold home appliances today under the guise of them being more energy efficient, but I don't get how that considers the entire cradle to grave lifecycle. I know appliance repair men who say that if you have a washing machine made from the 60s to the 80s, hold onto it for dear life, because if you service it you will never have to buy another for the rest of your life. Actually, we just repaired a sewing machine for my mother in law which was from the 70s which she had kept. She says all modern machines she has tried has performed worse. Turns out, a service was indeed all that was needed and the repair man commented that it was as strong and fast as a modern industrial machine.

A few years ago I bought a pair of scissors from Ernest Wright and it's been a fascinating time machine view into what every day people used a hundred years ago. The quality and detail is amazing and you can send it back for service. A sharp (pun intended) contrast with the cheap mass manufactured scissors everyone today uses. That company does have problems scaling up because you can't just buy more machines to do so, you need actual skilled craftsmen (like the above mentioned repair man who was way past his retirement age... and actually the second sewing machine repair person we had attempted to contact because the first one had just recently died of old age).

It feels like an evil circle of capitalism that corporations want ever more profits, and thus create even cheaper products with cut down quality, workmanship and wages, so people therefore can only afford to buy low quality cheap products which leads to even more of that crap getting produced and today we're drowning in it and so many people are circling the drain and nobody is proud of what they do any more.

Not only that, but modern corporations aren't content with selling you 10 products instead of one that lasts a lifetime, but they even actively want to prevent the service and repair scenario we went through above, not only by making trash products which aren't worth fixing up, but attempting to set up an entire system of laws to justify it which means that their arguments of fast technological progress making newer products so much better is bull. I mean, a super thin iPhone looks slick perhaps but is ergonomically way worse than the old phones which had replaceable batteries and because it's so thin it's also way more fragile. There's also no reason to absolutely have to come out with a new model every year. Sure, technology progresses but today there's so much deliberate "enshittification" going on in the name of greed that personally that makes it not worth buying something new. Further, some items you don't even fully own if there's a service connected to it, effectively forcing you to rent their cheap crap until they decide it's not worth it for them anymore and shut down the service.

I feel very lucky that I can afford to break that circle and support more diversity and local manufacturing (which is not effortless or even possible to find these day), but I'm also incredibly aware of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

Sorry for the rant... it's Sunday, wife's out and I'm at home trying to avoid doing something useful and listening to my headphones.

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

I haven't used a company like that... It's always private sales, unless you count eBay, since they take a fee for the auction listing.

That depends on a case by case basis. I'll go through the same list.

I. Audio gear
a. Replaced due to component failure
1. Countless cables (most of them stock) : I tend to see cables less as "the ultimate conduit for sound between components" and more like "we need these to be good, and by good I mean that includes durability." So while they fail the latter, not all the cables that failed are just inept manufacturing, just "you get what you pay for."
2. Many beater IEMs (ie most expensive is the Shure e2c) : Again, it depends. The e2C was from when detachable cables just means the replacement cable costs more than some IEMs and those IEMs suck. Now you can get pretty decent IEMs and very cheap cables with connectors for IEMs. That said, note that not all these failures were all on the cables and having someone disassemble and do a soldering job too expensive. KZ's are utterly notorious for just randomly kicking the bucket, for one. But still it kinda seems just as much "you get what you pay for" as it is "they want me to buy another one."
3. (Just sidelined, not getting replaced) Meier Cantate.2 : Not intentional. Heck it's easier to find the op-amps on this than some dedicated audio discrete components. Problem is I can't get a repair tech that understands how active ground works, they measure, and claim it's fine. No bro it's not fine, the sound sucks! And it's supposed to measure weird when it actually sounds fine (if you don't know how to probe an active grouind amp).


b. Upgraded due to obsolescence/compatibility, or just my own changing needs
1. Little Dot MkII : It's deliberately designed to drive high impedance headphones, which I didn't understand at teh time meat that it would kinda suck vs low impedance loads. It's a design compromise, not a delvberate attempt to make you buy another one.
2. SuperPro 707 : Deliberately dumb design.
3. A string of car stereos : Not really deliberate and malicious. These have moving parts and designed to work in a moving car, Even if you account for that there's still wear and tear higher than what you'd edxp
4. Car processors. Tech marched on. Mazda wanted a clean dash, got rid of the LCD panel; other manufacturers followed. I don't want to mess around with factory GPS. Ergo: integration processor.
5. Home audio tower speakers and standmount speakers. My needs changed.

c. A little bit of both
1. Marantz CD60. Not deliberately done to get more money out of me. But still really, really, really dumb design. Still, I really gave it up thanks to not being able to read newer CDs with PC content, something they couldn't have foreseen in the early 1990s.
2. iModded 5.5g. It actually lost to the SGS3 because, well, I get to use only one device. But before I had it iModded Apple said they don't have the batteries for it anymore and they just tried to give me a discount on the 160gb 6g. Uhhh...no thanks, I just need a freaking battery!
3. String of Android phones : T-Mobile offers new phones at low prices so it's tough not getting one since you don't feel like an idiot camping out for a $1000 phone. You just waited six months for them to offer your two generations older phone to trade for the new one.
4. SGS9 : Freaking OLED. I'm still using it but still. F OLED. I mean sure I don't think they designed it to break, they just didn't realize OLED is the Ferrari of screens except you can maintain a Ferrari properly and at least not have something major break while you're moving fast so it doesn't break anything else (if not the entire car).
5. An old Sony HU : Again, more of technological advances. 10+1 CDs vs an iPod in a high noise floor environment.
6. AKG K66. Removable cables weren't common at the time. I still wouldn't buy these again though because the new ones still don't have it.

II. Non-audio or non-audio specific gear: all a little bit of both for most unless otherwise indicated.

1. Core2 Duo Vaio : Even if I can fix it newer processors will have more processing power vs power consumption.

2. Acer 15.6in with AMD APU. Same problem as the Vaio.

3. Lenovo Yoga 11. Total POS after about 2yrs. And to think I liked the keyboard, if at least compared to other short travel keyboads at the time.

4. HP notebook. Not totally replaced, and can use it as an auxiliary since my new gaming laptop is replacing the gaming desktop more. Just ordered a new battery actually.

5. A string of desktop parts and whole PCs. Again...tghere's that processing power vs power consumption improvement.

6. iPad2. Might have gotten stolen but by that point it was starting to f up and slow down. One thing I have to hand to Apple though: the battery was still not that bad when ti was stolen.

I consider eBay as a private sale, thank you!

This question properly also relate to both of you, and is somewhat in relation to what eobet is writing above.
- The question, like all other, is open for everybody to answer, and open for every bit of interpretation!

• Imagine it is possible, and the given product price is the same: Would you rather buy/have a constant performing product which is possible to repair at an affordable price (somewhat like older appliances') where you however compromises on innovation upgrades, as you are not allowed to replace the product in a long time. Or are you more interested in a product where the product's performance isn't given, and is rather inconsistent as you are not aware if it suddenly malfunctions, where mending is pricey and complicated. You are, however, allowed to change the product every second year to newer products with 'new' features?

 

[Wish I had a cool name]

This article seems like a good reference for the topic:

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/23529587/consumer-goods-quality-fast-fashion-technology

We are sold home appliances today under the guise of them being more energy efficient, but I don't get how that considers the entire cradle to grave lifecycle. I know appliance repair men who say that if you have a washing machine made from the 60s to the 80s, hold onto it for dear life, because if you service it you will never have to buy another for the rest of your life. Actually, we just repaired a sewing machine for my mother in law which was from the 70s which she had kept. She says all modern machines she has tried has performed worse. Turns out, a service was indeed all that was needed and the repair man commented that it was as strong and fast as a modern industrial machine.

A few years ago I bought a pair of scissors from Ernest Wright and it's been a fascinating time machine view into what every day people used a hundred years ago. The quality and detail is amazing and you can send it back for service. A sharp (pun intended) contrast with the cheap mass manufactured scissors everyone today uses. That company does have problems scaling up because you can't just buy more machines to do so, you need actual skilled craftsmen (like the above mentioned repair man who was way past his retirement age... and actually the second sewing machine repair person we had attempted to contact because the first one had just recently died of old age).

It feels like an evil circle of capitalism that corporations want ever more profits, and thus create even cheaper products with cut down quality, workmanship and wages, so people therefore can only afford to buy low quality cheap products which leads to even more of that crap getting produced and today we're drowning in it and so many people are circling the drain and nobody is proud of what they do any more.

Not only that, but modern corporations aren't content with selling you 10 products instead of one that lasts a lifetime, but they even actively want to prevent the service and repair scenario we went through above, not only by making trash products which aren't worth fixing up, but attempting to set up an entire system of laws to justify it which means that their arguments of fast technological progress making newer products so much better is bull. I mean, a super thin iPhone looks slick perhaps but is ergonomically way worse than the old phones which had replaceable batteries and because it's so thin it's also way more fragile. There's also no reason to absolutely have to come out with a new model every year. Sure, technology progresses but today there's so much deliberate "enshittification" going on in the name of greed that personally that makes it not worth buying something new. Further, some items you don't even fully own if there's a service connected to it, effectively forcing you to rent their cheap crap until they decide it's not worth it for them anymore and shut down the service.

I feel very lucky that I can afford to break that circle and support more diversity and local manufacturing (which is not effortless or even possible to find these day), but I'm also incredibly aware of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boots_theory

Sorry for the rant... it's Sunday, wife's out and I'm at home trying to avoid doing something useful and listening to my headphones.

Thank you for reaching out, I absolutely love a good rant!

I appreciate the thoughts indeed, which is why I just try to get more out of you

Phones and other technology are getting 'upgraded' and 'innovated', and some even might argue that manufactures withhold innovations available in order to apply those on the next generation. All of which, to ensure that consumer think that they are relative obsolete because they would rather have the newest technology.
- My question is that, do you believe that it is only the manufactures which are to blame for our consumption? Couldn't the society and social factors be blamed for 'pressuring' people to replace products faster than required?
Or what about the retailers? Phone retailers which are offering a take back of the old phone every second year, where they then sell you the newest model and makes you sign a new agreement with them. - Aren't they to blame just as badly?

 

[msing539]

• Imagine it is possible, and the given product price is the same: Would you rather buy/have a constant performing product which is possible to repair at an affordable price (somewhat like older appliances') where you however compromises on innovation upgrades, as you are not allowed to replace the product in a long time. Or are you more interested in a product where the product's performance isn't given, and is rather inconsistent as you are not aware if it suddenly malfunctions, where mending is pricey and complicated. You are, however, allowed to change the product every second year to newer products with 'new' features?

It depends on the item for me.

If we're talking about a washing machine, yes, I'll take the more reliable one even if it's lacking some form of innovation like NFC.

If it's a phone/laptop/tablet I'll take my chances with the newer one with possibility of upgrading every second year.

If we're talking about a car, I would again take the older one depending on what it is. For example, I'd take a 1970 Chevelle over a 2023 Honda Civic Type R. But I wouldn't take a 1990 Ford Escort over the same Type R.

 

[eobet]

- My question is that, do you believe that it is only the manufactures which are to blame for our consumption? Couldn't the society and social factors be blamed for 'pressuring' people to replace products faster than required?
Or what about the retailers? Phone retailers which are offering a take back of the old phone every second year, where they then sell you the newest model and makes you sign a new agreement with them. - Aren't they to blame just as badly?

My question back is who controls retailers, influences social factors and even society at large? When most people are getting squeezed in every direction by landlords, crappy jobs and rising prices, sorry but no, I'm not going to blame them.