[JonesBBQ]

Hello, I am trying to get into playing CD instead of streaming because people say CD still sounds better despite the introduction of lossless streaming. I don't want a big upfront investment so I plan to use what I already have.

I wonder what will be the difference between playing CD using a dedicated CD player, and something like a DVD burner in my PC connected to an external DAC. Does it all come down to the DAC, or does the player itself actually make a meaningful difference?

The DVD burner I have is from LG, I don't remember the exact model but it's a pretty generic one.

Thank you for any suggestions and recommendations!

 

[earmonger]

The player is reading 1s and 0s. Some standalone players may be better at reading those digits from physically damaged CDs, but once those digits have been read, playback through the DAC is what makes the difference.

See if you can hear the difference between lossless streaming and your DVD drive. If the source is actually lossless, with no downsampling or EQ or remastering somewhere along the way, it should sound exactly the same.

High-definition lossless could even be better than CD quality.
https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/61d5d84ac0947355ea247555

 

[JonesBBQ]

The player is reading 1s and 0s. Some standalone players may be better at reading those digits from physically damaged CDs, but once those digits have been read, playback through the DAC is what makes the difference.

See if you can hear the difference between lossless streaming and your DVD drive. If the source is actually lossless, with no downsampling or EQ or remastering somewhere along the way, it should sound exactly the same.

High-definition lossless could even be better than CD quality.
https://www.hdtracks.com/#/album/61d5d84ac0947355ea247555

Thank you for the reply. I see people say CD still sounds better compared to lossless streaming even if it's just 16bit/44.1kHz so I wanted to try it out myself. What do you think of Apple Music lossless, if you have ever used it?

 

[earmonger]

Thank you for the reply. I see people say CD still sounds better compared to lossless streaming even if it's just 16bit/44.1kHz so I wanted to try it out myself. What do you think of Apple Music lossless, if you have ever used it?

I haven't tried Apple Lossless; I've got Tidal and QoBuz.

But lossless is lossless. The same digits through the same DAC produce the same output. Apple Lossless is CD quality and above (depending on the original master) so there's no reason a CD player should sound any better.

You should make some comparisons on your own equipment.

That free sampler I linked from HDtracks should, numerically, give you better sound than a CD. You could try downloading that album, burning it onto a CD and comparing your LG player to hi-res playback to see what you can hear. You might need a hi-res player on your computer, like this one that has a free tier.
https://vox.rocks/mac-music-player And you should always make sure you're listening to your samples at the same volume, since we humans usually think louder sounds better.

To do serious testing, try an app like ABX Tester, which gives you blind tests to determine if you're hearing a difference or if it's placebo effect.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/abxtester/id427554135

I have compared 320kbps mp3, CD and Hi-Res files and at times believed I heard a difference -- but it was minuscule and possibly illusory. I can definitely hear differences between YouTube (128 kbps or worse) or Soundcloud (128 kbps) and 320 kbps mp3; horrible cymbal and piano tones are giveaways. But frankly, 320 kbps mp3 is pretty convincing.

There are very different arguments to made about vinyl (analog) vs. digital. But once it's digital it shouldn't matter whether those digits are on a disc, a hard drive or a server.

 

[megabigeye]

If you want to try CDs, I've got nothing against that. In fact, in some ways I still prefer them to streaming (mostly for browsing and lack of distractions).

But as @earmonger says, lossless is lossless. Anybody that says otherwise is either deceiving themselves or you.
I'd even go one further than earmonger and say that there's nothing audibly better that CD quality. CDs were specifically designed to be audibly perfect for humans. A "hi-res" (yes, scare quotes) album might sound different because it's a different mastering, not because it's a bigger file.

My experience with listening to CDs on my computer is limited, but I wouldn't recommend it. At least for me, my DVD drives have been annoyingly noisy. (Whir! Chirp-chirp! Buzz! Whir! BUZZ BUZZ BUZZ!) I've also used a cheap Blu-ray player hooked up to a DAC, which sounds great and makes less noise than my optical drives, but is still noisy enough to be heard from 10ish feet away. A decent CD player will probably make even less noise than that, but will almost assuredly make more noise than streaming. So, in that way, streaming probably sounds better CDs.

 

[dcguy73]

I agree with the borg collective that bits are bits are bits are bits and no differences in power supplies error correction cd drive mechanisms or vibration control can possibly make any difference. Do not look any further. Listen to 320 kbps and be happy. Join ussssssssss.

 

[kRed]

I haven't tried Apple Lossless; I've got Tidal and QoBuz.

But lossless is lossless. The same digits through the same DAC produce the same output. Apple Lossless is CD quality and above (depending on the original master) so there's no reason a CD player should sound any better.

You should make some comparisons on your own equipment.

That free sampler I linked from HDtracks should, numerically, give you better sound than a CD. You could try downloading that album, burning it onto a CD and comparing your LG player to hi-res playback to see what you can hear. You might need a hi-res player on your computer, like this one that has a free tier.
https://vox.rocks/mac-music-player And you should always make sure you're listening to your samples at the same volume, since we humans usually think louder sounds better.

To do serious testing, try an app like ABX Tester, which gives you blind tests to determine if you're hearing a difference or if it's placebo effect.

https://apps.apple.com/us/app/abxtester/id427554135

I have compared 320kbps mp3, CD and Hi-Res files and at times believed I heard a difference -- but it was minuscule and possibly illusory. I can definitely hear differences between YouTube (128 kbps or worse) or Soundcloud (128 kbps) and 320 kbps mp3; horrible cymbal and piano tones are giveaways. But frankly, 320 kbps mp3 is pretty convincing.

There are very different arguments to made about vinyl (analog) vs. digital. But once it's digital it shouldn't matter whether those digits are on a disc, a hard drive or a server.

I fear it's not this simple, as calling something lossless could mean more than one thing.

@GoldenOne (which I assume is Golden Sound on YT... hope I'm not wrong) has a great example on his YT channel about tidal being flicky on this matter. Like you say the transport is lossless, but what about the actual file with the music in it? Is it lossless from which "stage" of the original file?

Streaming is awesome, i'am actually paying two services (tidal and Apple Music) and I use it all the time, but I honestly can't say if it is just 1 and 0 and that's all. A streaming has way more hops and passages before it's sent to your DAC (I say it as networking and TLC professional) than a cd.

In the end, it's probably unlikely that you will be able to clearly hear a real difference between cd and "lossless" streaming. But it doesn't mean it's not there!

 

[AudioThief]

Hello, I am trying to get into playing CD instead of streaming because people say CD still sounds better despite the introduction of lossless streaming. I don't want a big upfront investment so I plan to use what I already have.

I wonder what will be the difference between playing CD using a dedicated CD player, and something like a DVD burner in my PC connected to an external DAC. Does it all come down to the DAC, or does the player itself actually make a meaningful difference?

The DVD burner I have is from LG, I don't remember the exact model but it's a pretty generic one.

Thank you for any suggestions and recommendations!

You're wasting your time. Stay with streaming. It is infinitely more convenient, and I can assure you that any differences you perceive will be an effect of psychoacoustics (bias etc), and not actual sonic differences.

 

[tomb]

Hello, I am trying to get into playing CD instead of streaming because people say CD still sounds better despite the introduction of lossless streaming. I don't want a big upfront investment so I plan to use what I already have.

I wonder what will be the difference between playing CD using a dedicated CD player, and something like a DVD burner in my PC connected to an external DAC. Does it all come down to the DAC, or does the player itself actually make a meaningful difference?

The DVD burner I have is from LG, I don't remember the exact model but it's a pretty generic one.

Thank you for any suggestions and recommendations!

But why are you playing the CD in your PC?

You should rip it to lossless FLAC and forget about the CD drive. You can use the ripping process itself to check the bits/verify/etc. Depending on what software you have, you may need to rip it to *.wav files first, then convert to FLAC. However, Exact Audio Copy is FREE and easily available and will rip directly to FLAC, if you so desire.

The hard drive in your PC is vastly superior to the CD drive and if you have a solid-state drive, even more so. The issue is in correcting the bits if they occur and with the ripping software this is assured during the rip.

Once on your PC in lossless, space-saving FLAC files, connection to a separate DAC will always be superior. That's assuming you use a DAC of adequate quality. But then that's the point - you can always upgrade the DAC without worrying about the mechanics and performance of the CD drive (not to mention whether it has a substandard DAC anyway - many do).

I would not vote for streaming. From what I've experienced, even ones that offer lossless and/or Hi-Res files, give you no choice to actually download the files. They want your money instead, so they only provide the stream in real-time.

The only problem with CDs is that they're limited to 16-bit 44.1kHz. Still, that's extremely good and a better choice over any lossless compression like mp3. DVDs offered a lot more in hi-res, but downloading seems to be the better choice. Sometimes you have to pay for that, but if you know where to look, you may not have to do that, either. Unfortunately, unless the artist is very, very popular, you won't find their work in hi-res anywhere (there are a few exceptions). So CDs are still the best choice for quality listening.

Just do like we used to do in the old days with LPs and tape - rip it once to tape, then put the LP away to preserve the surface and grooves from wear. The difference these days is that you can rip a CD to digital files with absolutely Zero-Loss in quality. You could never say that with tape, even using a reel-to-reel or a Nakamichi with Dolby HX on metal tape.


EDIT: Here's a link to Exact Audio Copy: https://www.exactaudiocopy.de/

EDIT 2: Use your FLAC files on your PC with Foobar 2000 or Music Bee. After using Foobar for about 15 years, I decided Music Bee was much better. JMHO ...

 

[Subhasis]

No, it doesn’t matter whether an audio CD is read with a CD player or an optical drive in a computer. What causes differences is the quality of the analog parts of the each type of system that reconstruct the actual audio based on the numeric data from the disc, by digital-to-analog conversion and amplification. On a computer it’s handled by the audio output device, be that a sound card, integrated audio, or some other type of hardware. On a CD player there’s similar circuitry. And of course, eventually there are speakers, headphones or earphones. These are what the quality of audio depends on. You can’t expect too much of integrated audio on the motherboard of a computer, or of some cheap boombox (or rather, screechbox). But with a separate soundcard on a computer or a decent stereo system, feeding good headphones the audio quality will be better.

 

[earmonger]

But why are you playing the CD in your PC?

You should rip it to lossless FLAC and forget about the CD drive. You can use the ripping process itself to check the bits/verify/etc. Depending on what software you have, you may need to rip it to *.wav files first, then convert to FLAC. However, Exact Audio Copy is FREE and easily available and will rip directly to FLAC, if you so desire.

The hard drive in your PC is vastly superior to the CD drive and if you have a solid-state drive, even more so. The issue is in correcting the bits if they occur and with the ripping software this is assured during the rip.

Once on your PC in lossless, space-saving FLAC files, connection to a separate DAC will always be superior. That's assuming you use a DAC of adequate quality.

This is good advice -- especially about the mechanical noise from physical CD drives vs file playback from a computer. There's certainly nothing magic about having the actual disc spinning.

dcguy73's mockery about "no differences in power supplies error correction cd drive mechanisms or vibration control"... obviously if you are hearing extraneous noises in your system, from mechanical sounds or bad wiring, you want to fix those. But a digital file through a good DAC is not going to have problems with vibration control; a turntable might, I guess.

Lossless should mean lossless, though marketing-speak does confuse things. Different streaming services may have different source files -- Tidal supposedly does its own remastering with MQA -- and a "lossless" transmission of a different source file is, obviously, different. The streaming services are only as good as what the copyright owners supply. But the copyright owners are also the ones choosing what files go on the CDs.

Get the best-quality digits (lossless or hi-res files) and get a reputable digital-audio converter (DAC). The most important part of the chain will still be the transducer -- the thing that turns those signals into actual vibrations, your earphones or speakers.

Seriously, download that HDtracks sampler, burn them onto a basic CD, and also compare whichever version you prefer to the same tracks via a streaming service through your own system. Decide for yourself if there's a difference worth pursuing. Your ears are the ones that matter.

 

[dcguy73]

Power is everything. Good power is everything.

If you want to try an experiment, try listening to a CD through your computer while it’s plugged into the wall and then try it again with your computer plugged into a battery backup or another source off the grid. See if you can hear parts of the recording that weren’t audible the first time through.

If you can hear a difference, you’ll understand the value in a separate CD player or transport with a better built-in power supply or in upgrading the power supply of your computer. If you can’t hear a difference, then disregard my advice and listen to all of these other voices speaking in unison.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Hello, I am trying to get into playing CD instead of streaming because people say CD still sounds better despite the introduction of lossless streaming. I don't want a big upfront investment so I plan to use what I already have.

I wonder what will be the difference between playing CD using a dedicated CD player, and something like a DVD burner in my PC connected to an external DAC. Does it all come down to the DAC, or does the player itself actually make a meaningful difference?

The DVD burner I have is from LG, I don't remember the exact model but it's a pretty generic one.

Thank you for any suggestions and recommendations!

Vibration control on good CDPs leaves less possible errors for the processor to deal with. Even though some CDPs use the exact same mechanicals as PC rom drives, the differences don't stop at having a black CD tray instead of the old beige or white (back when there were enough CDPs in the market). The drive gets mounted on thick rubber inside a more robust chassis.

That said, having say a 16 core, 24 thread monster of a processor doesn't mean it can just deal with potential errors. Other stuff can be happening in the background loading that processor. And then that monster of a processor, likely paired with a monster GPU, also means you'll be running a cooling system that the CDP doesn't need to have. Not even a Lian Li 011D case with three 360mm radiators can be as physically quiet as a good CDP since you also have nine fans (minimum) just to get air past all those fins, even if you're not loading the CPU that much (and not loading the GPU at all when you're just listening), plus the pump's running. That assumes your computer also doesn't have any electronic noise and coil whine, which sometimes happens on some components.

All that said...you can avoid half of those problems by just ripping the CDs into an SSD. Since the computer doesn't have to apply error correction in real time it's not as big a problem; although you can slow down all the fans then use an external drive on vibration cones with a book on top if you really want to take zero chances (and not run a lot of background apps other than the anti-virus...but good luck with Windows11 not updating in the background...and also not type on the keyboard etc). Bonus: you can archive the CDs and decrease the risk of dropping or otherwise mishandling and scratching them once you rip them.

Wanna get rid of the other half of the problem ie cooling system noise, too? Rip them all, then transfer them to an SD card and then use a cheap Android tablet via OTG USB to get audio to a compatible DAC, or use a DAP.

 

[Stevko]

Rip your cd`s to your pc. and USB to DAC. easy and sounds great.
try musicbee. free software