[xuan87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by belac /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it not common to get a better sound out of balanced rather than unbalanced?

it is common, but not necessarily true. it is also usually the case that balanced amps cost more than unbalanced amps, but that is not necessarily true as well. it will be interesting to compare them both based SOLELY on sound quality. I plan to do that, then factor in the rest ( price, size, etc etc) to decide which is the better choice for me.

 

[gp_hebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by belac /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is it not common to get a better sound out of balanced rather than unbalanced?

If you compare an unbalanced version to a balanced version of the same design, I believe the balanced version will perform better in most aspects, if not all. On the other hand, comparing one balanced amp to another unbalanced one doesn't mean anything, you have compare the circuits (i.e. a single-ended B22 will perform better than a balanced CMOY).

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me in electronics can complete what I said with a more technical explanation...

 

[MomijiTMO]

I've got to admit, I'm a little surprised by what has happened since I last visited this thread.... I do hope to see an answer though.

 

[monsieurguzel]

I feel that when running single ended on balanced amps always results in poor SQ because the amp is always designed with balanced circuit in mind. The second you go to single ended, doesn't it cut the part of the circuit / current going to the headphones out? I feel that when designing an amp, most builders thoroughly tweak the components / sound to fit their liking, and if an amp is designed as balanced, then that sound takes highest priority in the SQ over the unbalanced output.

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to read and then interpret what I read. And, for the record, I believe you are wrong in your interpetation.

It doesn't matter whose interpretation is right or wrong; advertisers are responsible for all reasonable interpretations of their claims.

 

[AudioDwebe]

I, too, vote for back on track.

Sorry.

To the OP: I'm on the preorder list for the balanced portable. I was seriously considering the Pico slim, but realized that by the time I decided to get a portable amp, the list was pretty long and the wait time for the new batch was something I didn't want to deal with.

I'm not entirely sure the Protector will work for me size-wise, but I liked the idea of having one in a few weeks versus whenever numbers around 450 or so would have been made by Justin.

It'd be nice to get both just to compare, but don't see that happening.

 

[shigzeo]

I suppose ordering either one will not be a miss: both are fuelled by a high amount of expectation and both will probably resell for close to their MSRP, minus shipping - who knows, it might be they are so good that people cannot wait for Justin or Ray to make them and you get more if you don't care for either.

My demand list for a portable amp are pretty stiff: firstly hiss on par or less than the iBasso P3+ with AD2111 in the L/R, 634 in buff and V/G bypassed. That amount of hiss (very minimal) is important for sensitive earphones.

But, where the P3+ still doesn't eek out the last bit of resolution from iems, I would hope that either the Slim in SE and/or the Protector (and the Shadow) eek out the last bit of resolution.

Saying that, there has to be smoothness; my T3D and T3 are amazing for the price - that is no doubt, but they lack the finesse of the P3+ and the D4. Power and finesse - a duality.

 

[monsieurguzel]

For me the size of the predator is not an issue at all. I will be using mine as part of an office rig, so its not an issue at all. If anything I might prefer it over my Mustang, which seemed a little too small in terms of holding up an iPod Touch and changing the volume on.

As for balancing headphones, I'm thinking of re-terminating my ESW10JPN headphones. I'm wondering if there would be much benefit for them. The only headphones I hear people talk about are the JH13 (which I refuse to spend that much money for something I can't resell) or the HD650 which to me defeat the purpose of using a portable amp.

 

[shigzeo]

I've heard a balanced Ultrasone ED8 and it was lovely, but then, the SE was lovely too. It was from a portable amp back in December and it split a SE signal just like the Predator does.

 

[Currawong]

Just a thought: Heavier gauge speaker wire has more bass because that's the kind of distortion of the signal it introduces. Nordost interconnects are a good example of distortion: As you go up the range, the gauge increases and the tonality of the signal is distorted in different ways. For example, the popular Heimdall causes the mids to come forward. This is easy to hear with clear studio recordings that have a variety of instruments being played. I recall someone writing that while the Protector sounded good with full-sized headphones, that the bass was clearly weak. I don't really agree with the idea of fixing this by using a thick cable to distort the sound as a means of compensation. Mind you, the idea of using a portable amp to power full-sized headphones I still consider relatively poor though it will be interesting to see how far this idea can be taken.

 

[TzeYang]

^where did you pull that one out of?

 

[EddieE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monsieurguzel /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...the HD650 which to me defeat the purpose of using a portable amp.

I can see where you're coming from but it depends on how you approach the product.

Just because the unit is small enough to be portable, there is no reason it has to be bought for portable use. Personally I am buying it because it is a (relatively) affordable entry into balanced sound.To say running HD650s from a portable amp defeats it's purpose circumvents the fact that if it does indeed run them to a high standard, it's size is entirely irrelevant to proceedings. I doubt it will ever leave my desk top if I keep it.

My current feeling, after being to a recent meet and hearing a lot of good headphones, is my HD650 are still my favoruite phones and I don't see that changing anytime soon. So, where do I go next in terms of trying to improve my experience?

There are a thousand variables but the two main options are to get a tube amp or to get a balanced set up.

The former is potentially a lot cheaper or easier to achieve; there are some fairly well regarded tube amps out there in the £100-£200 bracket and a lot of information and kits for DIY tube amps as well. The latter, up until now, was ridiculously expensive. Balanced desk top amps cost some serious change, and then you have to add a balanced DAC to the equasion as well, oh and a balanced cable as well. While getting or building a tube amp remains an open option to consider, there are a lot more obstacles in the way of a balanced set up.

What this amp promises (and whether it delivers or not we will see) is a way to get balanced sound in a single, conveniently small device, and it came around at a point where I could afford it whereas in a few months I would not be able to. It is also a very innovative idea of Ray's and I do believe in rewarding innovation with at the very least the benefit of the doubt.

Some have questioned whether balanced sound is better or worth it. Well the only way I will be sure is to spend some time comparing the two and the protector offers a convenient way to do that. It's not like I can't sell it later down the line if I decide it's not a significant enough improvement, and use the funds to go in a different direction. For now I'm happy to give Ray and the reviewers the benefit of the doubt, and look forward to getting to know the product.

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TzeYang /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^where did you pull that one out of?

Years of hi-fi experience and research?

It's very simple: If you introduce a component that changes the frequency response of the signal, you are introducing distortion. A good recent example has been the HD-800s, with a number of owners, myself included, feeling they need a touch more bass. Switching to a larger gauge aftermarket cable results in just this. Most notably, if you add an extension cable with the aftermarket wire instead of replacing the cable, you get the same result. What this means for the protector is that Ray is suggesting it doesn't have enough bass with full-sized headphones (though maybe he doesn't want to say that) so he is suggesting adding what amounts to a tone control between the amp and headphones.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Years of hi-fi experience and research? It's very simple: If you introduce a component that changes the frequency response of the signal, you are introducing distortion. A good recent example has been the HD-800s, with a number of owners, myself included, feeling they need a touch more bass. Switching to a larger gauge aftermarket cable results in just this. Most notably, if you add an extension cable with the aftermarket wire instead of replacing the cable, you get the same result. What this means for the protector is that Ray is suggesting it doesn't have enough bass with full-sized headphones (though maybe he doesn't want to say that) so he is suggesting adding what amounts to a tone control between the amp and headphones.

I pretty much disagree with everything you state right there.

 

[TzeYang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Years of hi-fi experience and research? It's very simple: If you introduce a component that changes the frequency response of the signal, you are introducing distortion. A good recent example has been the HD-800s, with a number of owners, myself included, feeling they need a touch more bass. Switching to a larger gauge aftermarket cable results in just this. Most notably, if you add an extension cable with the aftermarket wire instead of replacing the cable, you get the same result. What this means for the protector is that Ray is suggesting it doesn't have enough bass with full-sized headphones (though maybe he doesn't want to say that) so he is suggesting adding what amounts to a tone control between the amp and headphones.

damn, will have to burn my degree in electronics in the future because they don't mean a single thing at all comparing to this.