[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headphoneaddict, by having the phonak PFE, and from your last comment here, would you say that 1 driver can be good enough to compete against 3 drivers?

The single balanced armature driver IEM is great, but the complete illusion of being there is missing without the deep and powerful bass that gives presence and weight to the instruments. I don't get fully immersed in the musical experience with them. And I am not talking about an overpowering bass, or one that bleeds over into the lower mids - I mean a tight accurate but visceral bass that is like real life.

I would say a single driver can come close to competing against 3-drivers since both the Phonak and the Image X10 sound better to me than a Triple.fi 10 Pro or stock SE530. But neither the Image X10 nor Phonak single driver adequately gets me there like my Westone 3 which is closer to my ideal, and they can't touch the Westone ES3X which is stunningly perfect in every way. The ES3X are in a completely different category and unlike any other IEM I have owned, being among the best phones I have ever heard. IF one was to add a subwoofer to the Phonak, and tame the mids and highs without losing any detail like with the black filters, you might get closer.

I still think there is hope for single drivers, especially single driver dynamics, so it will be interesting to see what the future holds for them. And, the Phonak handle bass boost amps very well and that inches them closer to where they should be, but still doesn't get them over the apex because of the added emphasis in the mids and treble with grey filters and the reduced transparency with the black filters.

 

[Bullseye]

Very interesting description, thanks for that HeadphoneAddict.

However i forgot to include the price on that question. Westone 3 cost 3 times more -approx- than PFE, and ES3X costs like 7 times more -approx- (being custom too, that equals perfect fit

) Basically for the price of the PFE we can say they are an excellent bang for the buck, no?

So how about Westone 3 and ES3X, in your point of view, do they deserve that price tag, less, more? I am asking this because for the price of the ES3X you can buy some grado rs1.

 

[tstarn06]

Just to step in, the PFEs are an excellent example of the "bang for the buck" IEM. No doubt. I completely understand what HPA means by the immersive experience of the W3s (just a fuller sound than the PFEs), but to me, when that little demon named sibilance appears on the scene, the immersiveness is diminished. He didn't have any sibilance (with his UM56 custom sleeves nor the large single flange silicones), but I do now and again. And his point about the amped PFEs (the T4 and MiniboxE+ both have bass boosts) is also good, in that that's how I much prefer to listen to the PFEs. Without the amp, they are not thin, but do lack a certain fullness that you get with an amp. Even a cheap E5 with the boost on can help.

Anyway, just wanted to note that the PFEs certainly deliver a great value. Also, since I paid $260 for the W3s and $96 for the PFEs (long stories), that changes the equation a little too. If I could only afford the PFEs, I would certainly be a happy listener.

Of course, I'd love to be able to afford the ES3X, but that just ain't happening.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullseye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very interesting description, thanks for that HeadphoneAddict. However i forgot to include the price on that question. Westone 3 cost 3 times more -approx- than PFE, and ES3X costs like 7 times more -approx- (being custom too, that equals perfect fit ) Basically for the price of the PFE we can say they are an excellent bang for the buck, no? So how about Westone 3 and ES3X, in your point of view, do they deserve that price tag, less, more? I am asking this because for the price of the ES3X you can buy some grado rs1.

I think the Phonak are the best bang for the buck in their price range and can beat out some IEM costing 2x as much (referring to my $159 version with Mic). The Nuforce NE-7M are the best bang for the buck in the under $50 class, and the Phonak are the only IEM under $160 that I like more than the NE-7M. The Westone 3, Livewires customs and my one of a kind SE530 customs are my only IEM under $400 that I like more than the Phonak. My Freq Show customs with the right amp or source do sound better than the Phonak too, but with the wrong source or amp I find the lower mids to be a problem for me. So, Phonak should be proud. I don't regret the $159 that I spent on this iPhone headset with mic.

But I also I think the W3 and ES3X are worth their price. But if I could only pick one headphone out of all that I own, I would pick the ES3X for their sound quality and versatility (for home or portable). Hands down I would pick the ES3X over my RS-1 or Edition 9 among others if I didn't already own the others. However, I don't believe I would pick the W3 over most of my full size cans, but I would pick them over any universal fit IEM I have owned.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to step in, the PFEs are an excellent example of the "bang for the buck" IEM. No doubt. I completely understand what HPA means by the immersive experience of the W3s (just a fuller sound than the PFEs), but to me, when that little demon named sibilance appears on the scene, the immersiveness is diminished. He didn't have any sibilance (with his UM56 custom sleeves nor the large single flange silicones), but I do now and again. And his point about the amped PFEs (the T4 and MiniboxE+ both have bass boosts) is also good, in that that's how I much prefer to listen to the PFEs. Without the amp, they are not thin, but do lack a certain fullness that you get with an amp. Even a cheap E5 with the boost on can help. Anyway, just wanted to note that the PFEs certainly deliver a great value. Also, since I paid $260 for the W3s and $96 for the PFEs (long stories), that changes the equation a little too. If I could only afford the PFEs, I would certainly be a happy listener. Of course, I'd love to be able to afford the ES3X, but that just ain't happening.

I spent too much time typing my reply and you got the "bang for the buck" post in before me

 

[tstarn06]

LOL.

You might have seen, my IE8s are here. Pink noising them right now, for 1-2 days to start. have a question, not to hijack the thread. I don't want to hear that infernal noise in my office, is it okay to just put them in a nice soft case while burning in? Figure it could not hurt, but then I started to wonder if they needed open air. Pretty dumb, huh?

 

[communic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Figure it could not hurt, but then I started to wonder if they needed open air. Pretty dumb, huh?

 

[tstarn06]

Okay, so I am a neurotic when it comes to stuff like that.

 

[ah_long]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL. You might have seen, my IE8s are here. Pink noising them right now, for 1-2 days to start. have a question, not to hijack the thread. I don't want to hear that infernal noise in my office, is it okay to just put them in a nice soft case while burning in? Figure it could not hurt, but then I started to wonder if they needed open air. Pretty dumb, huh?

as a closed type of IEM.. i don't think they get fresh air if they are in your ears..

i thought you were not going to get the IE8? how much did you pay for them?

 

[tstarn06]

1) Excellent point, but I just meant the closed in thing with them being burned in. I knew they will be in my ears when this process ends. LOL.

2) I succumbed to IE8 fever (aka HF's version of peer pressure). I paid $241 shipped.

 

[warehouse]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL. You might have seen, my IE8s are here. Pink noising them right now, for 1-2 days to start. have a question, not to hijack the thread. I don't want to hear that infernal noise in my office, is it okay to just put them in a nice soft case while burning in? Figure it could not hurt, but then I started to wonder if they needed open air. Pretty dumb, huh?

Congrats! Did you even listen to them before you started the burn in process? Also, what are you using as the source for the pink noise?

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my IE8 at 111 hours the Phonak and Westone 3 are still better.

No surprise here, I felt the same way at that many hours!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif The single balanced armature driver IEM is great, but the complete illusion of being there is missing without the deep and powerful bass that gives presence and weight to the instruments. I don't get fully immersed in the musical experience with them. And I am not talking about an overpowering bass, or one that bleeds over into the lower mids - I mean a tight accurate but visceral bass that is like real life. I would say a single driver can come close to competing against 3-drivers since both the Phonak and the Image X10 sound better to me than a Triple.fi 10 Pro or stock SE530. But neither the Image X10 nor Phonak single driver adequately gets me there like my Westone 3 which is closer to my ideal, and they can't touch the Westone ES3X which is stunningly perfect in every way. The ES3X are in a completely different category and unlike any other IEM I have owned, being among the best phones I have ever heard. IF one was to add a subwoofer to the Phonak, and tame the mids and highs without losing any detail like with the black filters, you might get closer. I still think there is hope for single drivers, especially single driver dynamics, so it will be interesting to see what the future holds for them. And, the Phonak handle bass boost amps very well and that inches them closer to where they should be, but still doesn't get them over the apex because of the added emphasis in the mids and treble with grey filters and the reduced transparency with the black filters.

Well, I am wondering if you will think the future is now for a single driver dynamic. To me, the IE8s (with a good seal) are like adding a subwoofer to the PFEs and making them sound a little more natural and engaging.

The PFEs are great for the $$$, but if you can get a IE8 for $100 more and have the money, in my opinion it is a no brainer!

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by warehouse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats! Did you even listen to them before you started the burn in process? Also, what are you using as the source for the pink noise?

I put on a pair of T400 tips (none of the ones included looked long enough) and listened to one track, New Kid in Town by the Eagles (a favorite test track) and they sounded pretty muddy and awful. But then, after only an hour of pink noise, I tried those cheapie bi-flanges that mark suggested on the IE8 tip thread, and wow, they sounded much clearer and cleaner. I didn't listen long, though, and put them back on the burn in schedule, but maybe it's just the T400s that caused them to sound dark and muddy, way too much bass. Not sure.

My source is a notebook computer with an hour-long pink noise file looped. I got it at whitenoise.org or something like that. They have files for download.

 

[moseboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif With my IE8 at 111 hours the Phonak and Westone 3 are still better.

Even after they're done burning in, I honestly don't think you're going to like the IE8 more. I really don't, and I could've called it from the start. I mean you like the Westone 3 so much, and the IE8 is so different, it just doesn't seem like the IE8 would be for you. It's nothing against you or the IE8. It doesn't seem you're having a problem like sibilance or fit with either of them. In this case, it's all personal preference, and that's fine.

 

[ah_long]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) Excellent point, but I just meant the closed in thing with them being burned in. I knew they will be in my ears when this process ends. LOL. 2) I succumbed to IE8 fever (aka HF's version of peer pressure). I paid $241 shipped.

where did u get it for that price?
PM me.. for that price, i'd get a pair as well.. LOL