[greggf]

kwkarth,

I've heard most of these cans. Read my signature - my former equipment.

I'm basing most of this upon recent reading:


THE PARADOX OF CHOICE: Why More is Less, by Barry Schwartz
Harper 2005

and upon:


PERVERSION AND UTOPIA: A Study in Psychoanalysis and Critical Theory,
by Joel Whitebook
M.I.T. Press 1995


Quotes from the latter:

"Just as psychic well-being requires the maintenance of the proper distance between the ego and the ego ideal..."

((The "ego" is you - the individual headphone consumer. The "ego ideal" is the abstract idea of a good or better or best or perfect headphone.))

Also:

"...too close a proximation to it (the ego ideal), not to mention its actual attainment, would result in the de-differentiation of manic psychosis..."

((I see a lot of manic psychosis in the upgradeitis at Head-Fi, or in the chasing after "the best."))

Schwartz's less high-falootin' book says the same: happiness comes not from striving for perfection, BUT FROM SETTLING, PURPOSELY, FOR SECOND-BEST. Our mental well-being depends upon it. Otherwise we fall into the trap of narcissism, forever gazing for "better" headphones in the abyss, the limitless well of real or perceived or fantasied possibility.

((Another book, THE NARCISSISTIC PURSUIT OF PERFECTION by Arnold Rothstein, makes it clear that the constant pursuit of better-better-better is a sign of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.))

Beyond that, I'm saying that it's felicitous that, coincidentally, our lives are made easier by the fact that the HD600 is a better can (measurements aside?!) than the HD650, for one example.

In other words, those who settle, easily, for not-the-top, may end up with all the marbles. Or at least a greater measure of peace of mind.

Let me make it clear why I started this thread. It's because I want to know WHY I do what I do, headphone-wise. Or car-wise, or woman-wise, or whatever. I want to know why YOU do what you do.

I know how all-consuming this headphone passion is. I know, personally, how I feel about it. I want to know why this is so.

I believe many others here do, too.

The headphone hobby is a metaphor for life itself. It's bigger than just the headphones themselves, or any piece of equipment.

It's about one of the ultimate human fantasies, or repositiories of imagination: music.

 

[facelvega]

I too have a problem with the top-of-the-range dynamic headphones from the big companies, but my problem is with dynamic drivers in general. Being annoyed that the K701 is so expensive and then getting a K601 instead is like buying an accord instead of an acura: both perfectly fine cars for what they are, but if you'd prefer something completely different, then maybe you ought to open your horizons beyond the usual dealership. Luckily browsing this site will offer you plenty of chances for that.

 

[JadeEast]

A link for the OP if you haven't seen it before zoom to 14:30
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/97

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif kwkarth, I've heard most of these cans. Read my signature - my former equipment. I'm basing most of this upon recent reading: THE PARADOX OF CHOICE: Why More is Less, by Barry Schwartz Harper 2005 and upon: PERVERSION AND UTOPIA: A Study in Psychoanalysis and Critical Theory, by Joel Whitebook M.I.T. Press 1995 Quotes from the latter: "Just as psychic well-being requires the maintenance of the proper distance between the ego and the ego ideal..." ((The "ego" is you - the individual headphone consumer. The "ego ideal" is the abstract idea of a good or better or best or perfect headphone.)) Also: "...too close a proximation to it (the ego ideal), not to mention its actual attainment, would result in the de-differentiation of manic psychosis..." ((I see a lot of manic psychosis in the upgradeitis at Head-Fi, or in the chasing after "the best.")) Schwartz's less high-falootin' book says the same: happiness comes not from striving for perfection, BUT FROM SETTLING, PURPOSELY, FOR SECOND-BEST. Our mental well-being depends upon it. Otherwise we fall into the trap of narcissism, forever gazing for "better" headphones in the abyss, the limitless well of real or perceived or fantasied possibility. ((Another book, THE NARCISSISTIC PURSUIT OF PERFECTION by Arnold Rothstein, makes it clear that the constant pursuit of better-better-better is a sign of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.)) Beyond that, I'm saying that it's felicitous that, coincidentally, our lives are made easier by the fact that the HD600 is a better can (measurements aside?!) than the HD650, for one example. In other words, those who settle, easily, for not-the-top, may end up with all the marbles. Or at least a greater measure of peace of mind. Let me make it clear why I started this thread. It's because I want to know WHY I do what I do, headphone-wise. Or car-wise, or woman-wise, or whatever. I want to know why YOU do what you do. I know how all-consuming this headphone passion is. I know, personally, how I feel about it. I want to know why this is so. I believe many others here do, too. The headphone hobby is a metaphor for life itself. It's bigger than just the headphones themselves, or any piece of equipment. It's about one of the ultimate human fantasies, or repositiories of imagination: music.

Listen,
With all due respect, I couldn't care less what those people have to say about my hobby. They made money on the books you bought. I buy what sounds good to my ears or I make it sound good to my ears, or I don't buy it. It's that simple. The cheaper the better, too, as far as that's concerned. Top of the range, bottom of the range, have nothing to do with anything as far as I'm concerned. My final comment; listen...listen for yourself. who gives a hang about what others think or say? If it sounds good, it is good. I personally prefer the HD600's over the HD650's. I personally prefer the K701's over the K501's although I like both, I never listen to my 501's any more. I personally prefer the SR-225's over the SR-325's. Who cares but me? I'm the one who has to listen to them. I still maintain that to many, the HD-650 is an improvement over the HD-600. So what? I personally like the HD-600 better. So I don't buy the HD-650. So what? I do not believe there's any conspiracy afoot with all these "top of the line" cans or otherwise.
Cheers

 

[greggf]

kwkarth,

I think you're missing the point..............this is not just about headphones.

JadeEast,

Thanks for the video link. I encourage folks to view it. When the guy talks about "freedom of choice" as the "enemy of 'synthetic happiness' " he's on to something big.

=gregg=

 

[McNubbins]

I still want better headphones.

 

[d-cee]

actually, this forum is mainly about headphones...

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The K601 is no less demanding of a good amp than the K701 is.

I was satisfied driving my K601 from portable amps that were plugged in with a wall wart. I don't use either of the portables on a battery. They're always plugged in. In fact, the XM4 didn't come with a rechargable battery, and I ran it down before buying a wall wart.

I'm now using an NAD 3155 integrated amp which while better than the OHA-REP and XM4, is not that much better. I've also plugged the K601 into much more expensive amps at a meet and didn't think they were driven that much better.

Everything I've read says portable amps aren't be sufficient to drive the K701.

 

[Hi-Finthen]

BTW, while on the subject of "Headphones, for instance the Beyers 990(''05e), there is nothing bass heavy at all in their presentation with the Opera upstream. The presentation is simply more full ranged and balanced ,common to two way floorstanding speakers. I do want to try again to get this point across in terms of associated gear and the fallacy of some saying they "Know" what a can sounds like, having heard it in their chain of gear, or a few times, or worse yet not at all, yet repeating what they have read by others of the for mentioned two categories. I really have no other agenda than to point out the lesson of my own experience for others to take note of the principal in the example.

I'll also point out, there is an out of head expansive presentation to be achieved with the 990s and the k701 both which nessitates a certain level of amplification which I'm sure some reading here must have never known with the obviously uninformed post, such as portables can accomplish that with the k701 or any headphone jack on a CDP. But that's their loss, not having heard or known better...

 

[kpeezy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif actually, this forum is mainly about headphones...

Yeah.. I'm going to agree there. This is just about headphones. If you need to view it as a doorway into something greater then have at it, but you're making too much out of something simple. "If you want to be happy, be."

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif kwkarth, I think you're missing the point..............this is not just about headphones. JadeEast, Thanks for the video link. I encourage folks to view it. When the guy talks about "freedom of choice" as the "enemy of 'synthetic happiness' " he's on to something big. =gregg=

Quote:

Originally Posted by d-cee /img/forum/go_quote.gif actually, this forum is mainly about headphones...

That was the perfect answer that I was waiting for after I saw quotes from psychology texts. The rules of this forum say - this is for discussing headphones, and headphones only. Philosophy/psychology go to member's lounge.

Next. I am going to vastly disagree with you on the case of happiness being in form of settling for the second best. I am fairly happy chasing the best I can possibly get in my life - the thrill of the hunt. On the other hand - once I am settled, I get bored. You can call it a psychological disease if you want, but then you are calling pretty much entire humanity sick.

Now if you want to discuss the statement 'humanity is psychologically sick' pm me, and we can talk about that, very different subject.

That being said - headphones remain headphones, we are here because we are in a way elitist about audio reproduction. We have preferences, just like with our food. Flagship items are those that attend to those preferences of more people, simple. If alot of people liked sugar on their beef, we would see more of that would we not? Sounds extreme, but nothing in this life can be said normal, just widely preferred.

Oh...and frankly psychological quotes make it sound like we are some maniac, unhappy people. Do I look like an unhappy person to you? If I do - that is mostly because you are challenging us with unnecessary arguments.

PS: I am fairly knowledgeable in terms of psychology, philosophy, and generally games people play - if you want me to pile a perspective on you with a few cute arguments that make your statements unnecessary, feel free to pm.

 

[Trastan]

I think that you and the quoted authors are, as many tend to do, making a severe generalization about humanity in general when it just doesn't apply to everyone. You, and these authors, are doing your best to sound intelligent and curious, but having gone through that ideology myself, I can tell you that clumping humanity as a whole into behavioral patterns is no more than a request to be proven wrong.

With that said, I do see your point. Consumers in markets such as these tend to want to get the best (or, a good variety, as further proves my point of humanity's variety) product possible. To that end, many (particularly those with little self-control or desire to do product research) make the decision that spending the most, or getting the "highest end" product will yield flawless results. Bose and Monster Cable, for instance, make their profits directly off of exploiting such consumers. On the surface, the folks here at Head-Fi would seem to fit into this crowd. However, a closer examination of the populous here (and, indeed, any legitimate enthusiast) would reveal a wide variety of mindsets and goals.

Take me, for example. After trying out a few higher-end sets on my home system, I've ended up keeping the Senn HD 650s. Now, I have never heard the HD 600s, and have, instead, made my purchase based on two factors: hearsay and reviews from Head-Fi, and the fact that the 650s are Sennheiser's top-end set. I purchased these over the 600s not only due to their heavier bass response and warmer sound, but because even if I would have preferred the 600s, I knew that my 650s were going to do a fantastic and comparable job.

For me, buying the best isn't about a subconscious need to achieve perfection, it's simply the safest, smartest decision. If I were to have every possible option available for my perusal, could I have made a different choice? It's absolutely possible. With a lack of such an idealistic scenario, though, I had to make a decision based on the information that I had available to me. I had the best chance of finding a set that I enjoyed with buying Senn's flagship, so that's what I went with. I'm not saying that it was the best decision, but it was the most logical.

With that said, I, like many here, would always love to hear different headphones, amps, sources, and their related synergies. Discovering new experiences is a great deal of the fun of this hobby in the long-term. The difference here is that you seem to believe that everyone purchases headphones seeking the end-all, be-all perfect set, and while there certainly are such folks, that's really not what Head-Fi is about. I bought my Sennheisers knowing full-well that they have their flaws, just as any dedicated enthusiast will understand of any setup. Few, if any, here are foolish enough to believe that they will, one day, achieve headphone perfection. Once you start playing in the HD 600/650, K701, DT 880, etc. range, the quality of the product is no longer the question. All that remains is the personal enjoyment of the music, and the occasional pleasure of finding a new synergy.

This is all a bit long, and probably fairly fragmented, but the points that I'm trying to get across are simple: First, humanity is tremendously diverse in its goals and mindsets, and any attempts at generalization both show ignorance and self-indulgent pride; just because you're interested in discovering the reasonings behind an individual's actions doesn't mean that you can offer up anything more than opinionated commentary. And secondly, you very much came to the wrong boards looking for folks who are ignorantly seeking perfection. Most, if not all, here are in it for the joy of discovering new ways to enjoy sound, and thrive deliberately on the fact that this is no perfect set. The fun is in the diversity itself; if there was perfection available, Head-Fi would not exist.

Don't pretend to understand even one person's agenda: you will almost certainly be incorrect, and the broader that you claim your observations to reach, the more absurd they become. I have to recommend that you stop trying to analyze life, and, as cliche as this may sound, instead get out and enjoy it.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was satisfied driving my K601 from portable amps that were plugged in with a wall wart. I don't use either of the portables on a battery. They're always plugged in. In fact, the XM4 didn't come with a rechargable battery, and I ran it down before buying a wall wart. I'm now using an NAD 3155 integrated amp which while better than the OHA-REP and XM4, is not that much better. I've also plugged the K601 into much more expensive amps at a meet and didn't think they were driven that much better. Everything I've read says portable amps aren't be sufficient to drive the K701.

I have news for you my friend. The K601's are less sensitive and much harder to drive (particularly with portable MP3 type players) than are the K701's.

The rated impedance and sensitivity for the 601's is 120 ohms and 101db/mw.
The rated impedance and sensitivity for the 701's is 62 ohms and 105db/mw.

That's a significant difference in favor of the K701's.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif kwkarth, I think you're missing the point..............this is not just about headphones. =gregg=

I'm sorry gregg, I guess I was laboring under the misconception that this was a headphone website.

I do think I understand where you're coming from, but all that drivel does not apply to every one or every circumstance. There are some of us who have put some effort into understanding and rising above our base natures. Humans do not need to be driven purely by instinct/natural urges. I'll give you this, most are.

 

[Leporello]

Barry Schwartz's lecture can be seen here. I think it may help the victims of audiophilia nervosa - like me. Those not suffering from that horrible disease need not to watch it, of course.


Regards,

L.