[maul]

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[betula]

  Mid and treble Not weak?  vs the HD650 or grado headphone?

On this level of headphones we can not really talk about "weak" treble and mid. Nothing is weak. On certain type of headphones some frequencies might have a bit more emphasis than others, but that does not mean, the rest is weak.
 With music, where bass is important, none of the above mentioned cans can beat X2. And mids and highs are also very nice. Many people say, they sound like an updated version of the Senns HD6*0. The Sennheisers do mids a bit better especially with vocals. But I was missing something at the low end with bassier music. 
 I have no experience with Grados, but read many times, they shine at the treble, having the least bass of the mentioned cans. 
Imho, X2s are the best overall deal, you have got the body to the bass, without even making compromise at the mids or highs. Best all rounder. I would recommend the Senns over the Fidelios only for classical music, or music with vocal in the focus. Otherwise pick the X2s. 
I let someone else to comment on grados. 

 

[madwolfa]

Ditto.

 

[TAMAL]

The Senns are also a lot harder to drive(according to most users), whereas, the X2s can be driven well from almost anythaing ! (again, "according to most users")

 

[madwolfa]

The Senns are also a lot harder to drive(according to most users), whereas, the X2s can be driven well from almost anythaing ! (again, "according to most users")

 
Both statements are not fully correct from my experience. Senns are not that hard to drive, unless from a portable, which doesn't make sense anyway given the open design, size and weight.
 
Secondly, even X2 benefits from quality source and amplification, but of course you may plug them into your smartphone and get them decently loud. Which doesn't make sense to me either, for the same reasons as above..

 

[Pianist]

  Mid and treble Not weak?  vs the HD650 or grado headphone?

 
Compared to Grado, X2 will have less treble, but that's OK, because Grados are very bright headphones. Compared to HD650, X2 has a bit more low midrange, a bit less upper midrange and slightly more sparkle in the treble. X2 also has a good bit more bass than HD650. X2 is almost V-shaped, but not quite because it has strong presence in the low mids, whereas V-shaped headphones are usually withdrawn in the low mids. I do think X2 is a bit bass heavy and warm. HD650 is also a bit warm, but not as warm as X2. HD650 is more laid back than X2. I think X2 sounds more lively and energetic. HD650 is more linear, more reference in tone, although still has a bit of flavor to it with that slightly emphasized mid bass versus something more neutral like HD600 or HD800. So in sum, X2 is a very fun, punchy and slightly colored but really well balanced headphone, while HD650 is a generally neutral headphone with a bit of added warmth. Or something like that.

 

[Mr B]

Secondly, even X2 benefits from quality source and amplification, but of course you may plug them into your smartphone and get them decently loud. Which doesn't make sense to me either, for the same reasons as above..

 
I'm thinking DAC, and AMP, but it should preferably not cost more then the headphones did. So about $230. Got any recommendations?
 
I've been using the PC output, (undisclosed "Realtek High Definition Audio Driver") hooked to a PA2V2, which has been working well, but only lets me use them with the PC, and using the analog source. I feel like there might be a bit to gain by going another route...
B!

 

[peter123]

I'm thinking DAC, and AMP, but it should preferably not cost more then the headphones did. So about $230. Got any recommendations?

I've been using the PC output, (undisclosed "Realtek High Definition Audio Driver") hooked to a PA2V2, which has been working well, but only lets me use them with the PC, and using the analog source. I feel like there might be a bit to gain by going another route...
B!

If you're not afraid of spending less I really like them with the CEntrance DACport Slim

 

[madwolfa]

  Compared to Grado, X2 will have less treble, but that's OK, because Grados are very bright headphones. Compared to HD650, X2 has a bit more low midrange, a bit less upper midrange and slightly more sparkle in the treble. X2 also has a good bit more bass than HD650. X2 is almost V-shaped, but not quite because it has strong presence in the low mids, whereas V-shaped headphones are usually withdrawn in the low mids. I do think X2 is a bit bass heavy and warm. HD650 is also a bit warm, but not as warm as X2. HD650 is more laid back than X2. I think X2 sounds more lively and energetic. HD650 is more linear, more reference in tone, although still has a bit of flavor to it with that slightly emphasized mid bass versus something more neutral like HD600 or HD800. So in sum, X2 is a very fun, punchy and slightly colored but really well balanced headphone, while HD650 is a generally neutral headphone with a bit of added warmth. Or something like that.

 
Another thought - after years with HD600, HD650 seemed boring (muffled) to me and slightly elevated bass didn't make up for the lack of energy. X2 on the other hand is just like HD600, in a good sense, but with better soundstage and much better bass, so basically without any issues I had with HD600... Perfect replacement.

 

[nicolo]

   
I'm thinking DAC, and AMP, but it should preferably not cost more then the headphones did. So about $230. Got any recommendations?
 
I've been using the PC output, (undisclosed "Realtek High Definition Audio Driver") hooked to a PA2V2, which has been working well, but only lets me use them with the PC, and using the analog source. I feel like there might be a bit to gain by going another route...
B!

 
iBasso D14 Bushmaster is excellent with these.

 

[madwolfa]

  I'm thinking DAC, and AMP, but it should preferably not cost more then the headphones did. So about $230. Got any recommendations?

 
I use my X2 with a DAC/amp combo which is 3X of its price and I think it's OK. If you have a strict budget (as above), then I'd suggest looking at Schiit Magni/Modi combination.

 

[Pianist]

  On this level of headphones we can not really talk about "weak" treble and mid. Nothing is weak. On certain type of headphones some frequencies might have a bit more emphasis than others, but that does not mean, the rest is weak.
 With music, where bass is important, none of the above mentioned cans can beat X2. And mids and highs are also very nice. Many people say, they sound like an updated version of the Senns HD6*0. The Sennheisers do mids a bit better especially with vocals. But I was missing something at the low end with bassier music. 
 I have no experience with Grados, but read many times, they shine at the treble, having the least bass of the mentioned cans. 
Imho, X2s are the best overall deal, you have got the body to the bass, without even making compromise at the mids or highs. Best all rounder. I would recommend the Senns over the Fidelios only for classical music, or music with vocal in the focus. Otherwise pick the X2s. 
I let someone else to comment on grados. 

 
I agree that HD6*0 do mids better than X2 - good point. X2 is a little less clear and precise in the midrange than the Senns. X2 still has excellent mids though. I don't agree however that X2 is necessarily better for music where bass is important. I think it depends on one's priorities. For a more neutral and reference sound, I think HD6*0 will work better for all music genres, offering sufficient amount of presence and extension in the low bass. However, for people who like to add bass boost to neutral headphones, X2 is a great alternative as it already has that fun bass boost built into its frequency response.
 
If I had to nitpick though, I would say that both lack in deepest sub bass extension, even X2. If you want to feel the deep rumble of a dance track or the low notes of a pipe organ, you will need headphones with more extended bass, like an LCD-2, or a well designed closed headphone. If you want to hear deepest sub bass well without spending much, also try Senn HD280 Pro - you may be surprised how much reasonable quality sub bass they have. Here's an example of a track that has the sub bass that many headphones struggle to reproduce properly. X2 does well with this track, but so do HD6*0 - X2 just has more bass volume, but it doesn't really have much more extension than HD6*0 - both drop off fast below 40 Hz or so and that's where that track has the most energy. If you or anyone reading this has HD280 Pro lying around, try that one with this track - you will be surprised... Other closed back headphones with strong bass extension, like NAD Viso HP50 and ATH-MSR7 also do a little better than the open headphones with this song - providing tighter, more controlled sub bass extension.
 
On second thought, I don't think X2 lacks extension in the bass. I think it lacks some quality in sub bass - it's a little loose, a little undefined. HD6*0 seem more controlled down low to my ears, even those they may be missing those last 15 Hz or so at the bottom... For listening to such low tones properly, one really shouldn't be using headphones anyway though - that's what subwoofers are for.
 

  Another thought - after years with HD600, HD650 seemed boring (muffled) to me and slightly elevated bass didn't make up for the lack of energy. X2 on the other hand is just like HD600, in a good sense, but with better soundstage and much better bass, so basically without any issues I had with HD600... Perfect replacement.

 
I agree that HD650 is boring compared to HD600 (and X2). I disagree that X2 is a good replacement for HD600, unless one is looking for a more colored sound with more bass and warmth. HD600 is meant to be a neutral reference and I think that it excels at this. It's not 100% perfectly flat, but it's as close as I've heard from any headphone, save for HD800. X2 is not meant to be a neutral reference, but rather a pleasant sounding headphone and a good representation of consumer hi-fi sound, and I think that it excels at this being a very fun sounding headphone while maintaining good tonal balance. I think HD600 portrays sound more accurately than X2 and this is especially apparent when listening to live instruments, but X2 may sound more satisfying with its extra bass presence and sparkle. Both have their place as they compliment each other IMO, not replace each other. A great replacement/upgrade for HD600 is HD800 IMO - the latter has similar reference tonality, although a bit different, but is much better in other sonic aspects.

 

[Mr B]

   
I use my X2 with a DAC/amp combo which is 3X of its price and I think it's OK. If you have a strict budget (as above), then I'd suggest looking at Schiit Magni/Modi combination.

 
It's not so much about the budget, it's more about the point where you get diminishing returns... There is enough money on the account that i could confidently say it would cover pretty much anything that could qualify as DAC / Headphone amp, or combo, but i'd much rather keep parts of that, saving as a foundation for buying a house...
But on that note, i find my self attracted to the Modi 2, (Need the uber, for the full range of inputs, right?) but would it be stupid to go with the Vali, over the Magni 2?
They should have socketed the tubes tho... Damn, now i got interested in a whole new can of worms. I doubt there is any reasonably good amp's with socketed tubes, that would fit in the budget. And then playingaround with tubes could get expensive over time...
 
Quote:

If you're not afraid of spending less I really like them with the CEntrance DACport Slim

 
I don't mind spending less, but i think i want a DAC that does at least USB 2.0, as well as optical and electrical digitals. Since it's for the X2, it's not going to be a portable setup anyway, so something with more bulk isn't a problem.
It's a good tip. Thanks for pitching in.
B!

 

[madwolfa]

  But on that note, i find my self attracted to the Modi 2, (Need the uber, for the full range of inputs, right?) but would it be stupid to go with the Vali, over the Magni 2?

 
I wouldn't get a tube amp for a low impedance headphone like X2. Magni as a relatively powerful solid state amp should give you more options going forward.
 
And yes, I'd go all Uber if possible.

 

[yoyorast10]

   
Both statements are not fully correct from my experience. Senns are not that hard to drive, unless from a portable, which doesn't make sense anyway given the open design, size and weight.
 
Secondly, even X2 benefits from quality source and amplification, but of course you may plug them into your smartphone and get them decently loud. Which doesn't make sense to me either, for the same reasons as above..

 
What are headphones like X2 but closed?