[SoundFreaq]

I'm looking for a good sounding, isolating, durable, portable solution. I pulled the trigger on the MS400. 
 
While I love the headphones for their size, and their tone and SQ are just fine, the soundstage is - as one reviewer put it - congested. I think that's the perfect word for it. For me, it renders classical music absolutely unlistenable. It is just a complete mess. Cheaper headphones do a better job. While the frequency response, tone, and clarity are great, the congestion jumbles everything together. In fact, it puts the music so inside of my head, it nearly makes stereo recordings sound mono! I have 10 hours on them. I doubt more burn-in will open them up to what I need.
 
So now I'm back looking at the Westone 4. But will that drive me equally insane? Or is it going to be better? Any other ideas for a portable solution?
 
Thanks guys

 

[Clockmaker]

I don't know much of anything about the westone, but vmoda recently launched their m80. It's decently portable, built out of metal but is somehow light weight, even lighter than the tma-1. It has a detachable kevlar cable as well, which is a big feature for me. They are listed as closed headphones, but have little air vents on the back. This most likely reduces isolation a bit, but opens up the can some. There are tons of reviews on them, but I found this one to be quite informative. I was between choosing the tma-1 and the m80, if that helps show why I like that review.

 

[SoundFreaq]

Very intriguing. Though I'm afraid it won't provide the isolation I need as I will be using on bus and in office. I need isolation both ways. 

 

[Clockmaker]

I'm afraid as well. I'm planning on using them in public places during my commute, such as on the bus and in campus hallways. I don't listen too loud so I'm hoping it won't be an issue.

 

[james444]

Quote:

So now I'm back looking at the Westone 4. But will that drive me equally insane? Or is it going to be better? Any other ideas for a portable solution?

The W4's soundstage is perfectly fine, but if you mainly listen to classical I'd also consider the new PFE232 (better treble) and IE80 (overall smoother sound). Isolation levels of these are roughly on par and ime sufficient for bus and office. My absolute favorites for classical are the EX1000, FX700 and FI-BA-SS, but all of these are vented and isolate less than the aforementioned ones.

 

[SoundFreaq]

Quote:

The W4's soundstage is perfectly fine, but if you mainly listen to classical I'd also consider the new PFE232 (better treble) and IE80 (overall smoother sound). Isolation levels of these are roughly on par and ime sufficient for bus and office. My absolute favorites for classical are the EX1000, FX700 and FI-BA-SS, but all of these are vented and isolate less than the aforementioned ones.

Unfortunately my two primary genres are classical and electronic. That makes things so difficult. I need an all-rounder. Solid tight bass, liquid mids, and an extended high-end. I will check your suggestions out right now.
 
When you say the W4 soundstage is "fine," I find it hard to believe that ANY IEM can be better in soundstage than any headphone. Is that wrong? 

 

[Clockmaker]

Quote:

Unfortunately my two primary genres are classical and electronic. That makes things so difficult. I need an all-rounder. Solid tight bass, liquid mids, and an extended high-end. I will check your suggestions out right now.
 
When you say the W4 soundstage is "fine," I find it hard to believe that ANY IEM can be better in soundstage than any headphone. Is that wrong? 

I think it's possible you're wrong in the same sense that its possible to have a closed can with a better sound stage than an open can. Granted the closed will probably cost a ton more than the open, it's still possible.

 

[SoundFreaq]

Quote:

I think it's possible you're wrong in the same sense that its possible to have a closed can with a better sound stage than an open can. Granted the closed will probably cost a ton more than the open, it's still possible.

 
Ultrasone Edition 8
 
And good point. 

 

[SoundFreaq]

Quote:

... and IE80 (overall smoother sound).

And it looks like the IE80 has some solid bass as well, in addition to being better suited for classical. How do the mids and highs compare to W4? Are we looking at more bass impact with IE80?
 

 

[james444]

 
Quote:

Unfortunately my two primary genres are classical and electronic. That makes things so difficult. I need an all-rounder. Solid tight bass, liquid mids, and an extended high-end. I will check your suggestions out right now.
 
When you say the W4 soundstage is "fine," I find it hard to believe that ANY IEM can be better in soundstage than any headphone. Is that wrong? 

I don't have as much experience with full-sized headphones as with IEMs, but most vented IEMs I've heard have larger soundstage than most closed cans. The W4 have one of the best soundstages among closed IEMs and can keep up with a lot of closed headphones. Of course perception of soundstage isn't exactly the same between listeners, but I think a majority of those who heard both would at least agree that some IEMs can render a better soundstage than some full-sized cans.
 
Quote:

And it looks like the IE80 has some solid bass as well, in addition to being better suited for classical. How do the mids and highs compare to W4? Are we looking at more bass impact with IE80?

You're correct, the IE80 have more bass impact than both the W4 and PFE232 and some may regard this as a problem with classical. I haven't had much listening time since they're brand new, but from what I've heard so far their bass doesn't affect the mids like on the IE8. The mids are more liquid than the W4's and the highs are slightly smoother. To my ears the timbre of acoustic instruments is a tad more natural from their dynamic driver than the W4's balanced armatures, but again the Westones are no slouch. The W4 on the other hand are slightly superior in speed and separation.
 
I think it depends on what your're primarily looking for in a phone, if you're the analytical type that likes to make out every minute detail then the W4 or PFE232 would be a better choice, if you prefer a more holistic presentation that doesn't draw your attention to detail (but it's still there if you choose to concentrate on it), then I'd recommend the IE80.
 
Oh, and one more thing regarding bass, if you love deep bass rumble with your electronic tracks, then choose dynamic drivers. With armatures you'll get deep bass, but (almost) no rumble.

 

[eke2k6]

You should also consider looking into the Vsonic GR07 if you want a fantastic all-rounder.

 

[SoundFreaq]

Thanks guys for all the recommendations. All of the suggestions have been great and have given me a great start into learning the portable realm. 

 

[dleib]

you should check out fa-003, great closed cans that have open-can sound (from what I've heard, I don't own them) and good for classical

 

[swbf2cheater]

^ x2 on the FA003, amazing set of cans for that price, excellent soundstage, much larger than the Phiaton though and more neutral

 

[SoundFreaq]

Oh I've had my eyes on the FA-003 for a while. Seem like a great can! Nice and neutral. A little large for my portable tastes, however. 
 
I decided on the Westone 4, and I couldn't be happier. A splendid, neutral, great all-rounder that's portable as hell, and comfy too!