Mormonsloot
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PayPal woes - Alternatives (Google Wallet, etc)??
- Thread starter AnakChan
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PayPal, like any business, is only great when everything moves smoothly. For me (as a consumer) how the its quality as a business is measured by how well it handles the "not so smooth" transactions. In this case poorly.
it took 1 incident from where PayPal themselves alerted me it's a SCAM, that they did not cover me as a seller. And further as a consumer, PayPal had made quite a bit from me through its fees - agreed, not as much as how much they would have made from me if I were business/retailer - but still, I had been a good compliant PayPal user. Since then PayPal has lost me as a customer. Despite bank transfer fees being higher, I'd rather use that service than PayPal.
Don't get me wrong, each service from different providers have their own idiosyncrasies that'll protect themselves rather than their customers but to varying degrees and, more importantly, varying levels of fairness. I hope for more and more payment transfer services adoption (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, Adyen, Venmo (but owned by PayPal?), etc.) would help change usage conditions to protect the customers more (both buyers and sellers from scammers).
it took 1 incident from where PayPal themselves alerted me it's a SCAM, that they did not cover me as a seller. And further as a consumer, PayPal had made quite a bit from me through its fees - agreed, not as much as how much they would have made from me if I were business/retailer - but still, I had been a good compliant PayPal user. Since then PayPal has lost me as a customer. Despite bank transfer fees being higher, I'd rather use that service than PayPal.
Don't get me wrong, each service from different providers have their own idiosyncrasies that'll protect themselves rather than their customers but to varying degrees and, more importantly, varying levels of fairness. I hope for more and more payment transfer services adoption (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, Adyen, Venmo (but owned by PayPal?), etc.) would help change usage conditions to protect the customers more (both buyers and sellers from scammers).
FreeWheelinAudioLuv2
Headphoneus Supremus
PayPal screwed me early last week. I ordered from Penon, with the pay in 4 option, and I got the PayPal pop up to accept the terms and the breakdown of the four payments, and I accepted and it went to the Penon site for completion of the order. So I did it, and the next notification was that I'd purchased the item at full price, and the entire amount was deducted from my acct! I filed a claim, and PP said they'd fix it and issue a credit. Nothing happened over a couple days, and so I called back, only for them to tell me "Your claim has been denied. You received your item." Well no ****! That wasn't the claim, and it's clearly outlined in the claim what my complaint is! They tell me too bad so sad, but since the seller was paid, they couldn't refund my money and put the order in pay in 4 anymore. That's ridiculous, since even with pay in 4, the seller gets paid all up front, and I pay in installments with interest. Just like a credit card. I went round and round with several people, and the suggested remedy was for me to return the item to Penon for a refund, and then redo the pay in 4 option by repurchasing the item. Return shipping ON ME. So yeah, beware of that option with PP, and their customer service is absolutely atrocious. AS for an alternative? Not many are being offered at the moment, so I don't know?
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When I first had the issue (back in 2015), there were much fewer options to Paypal. These days there's somewhat more. Since then I've really minimised my usage of PayPal unless absolutely necessary. In fact for some of my purchases, after my PayPal fiasco, I've even opted for bank transfer (to trusted sellers naturally) and rather pay those fees to the banks than to give them to PayPal.
FWIW, I have been moving away from PayPal. Not going into the details but their systems are getting increasingly flakey and their customer support is essentially non-existent.
What really irks me is that PayPal essentially want a free lunch. In requiring to verify your account by linking your PayPal account to a credit card or bank account, they are hoping to piggy-back on the customer identification checks that have been done by the CC provider or bank, getting access to those accounts, whilst not being subject to the same strict consumer protection regulations and service level standards that CC providers and banks have to comply with. I was a very late adopter of PayPal because for years the only way they allowed you to verify your account was through linking it to a bank account. Absolutely no **** way. It wasn't until they changed their TOC and also allowed verification through linking to a CC that I created a PayPal account. But I have never given them access to my bank account and I never will.
Their business model and practices are really something the financial regulators should clamp down on.
What really irks me is that PayPal essentially want a free lunch. In requiring to verify your account by linking your PayPal account to a credit card or bank account, they are hoping to piggy-back on the customer identification checks that have been done by the CC provider or bank, getting access to those accounts, whilst not being subject to the same strict consumer protection regulations and service level standards that CC providers and banks have to comply with. I was a very late adopter of PayPal because for years the only way they allowed you to verify your account was through linking it to a bank account. Absolutely no **** way. It wasn't until they changed their TOC and also allowed verification through linking to a CC that I created a PayPal account. But I have never given them access to my bank account and I never will.
Their business model and practices are really something the financial regulators should clamp down on.
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I understand each of these kinds of services have their fees - for me opting bank transfer has fees higher than PayPal's. I don't mind paying the fees. The only thing is what do I get out of it - when I needed protection as a seller, I didn't. I still disagree with (then) PayPal's anxiousness to state "you have money coming in", and one goes ahead to proceed to ship, but then in a small unnoticable footnote that "funds may not be released yet". Then days later state "actually it's a scam, we're taking the money back from you" - where's Paypal's insurance to cover such cases, esp when PayPal fees are paid (this wasn't a friends 'n family thing). I'm still bitter after 9 yrs.
Trihexagonal
Headphoneus Supremus
I use Google Pay. If I make an offshore purchase the bank freezes my card, and that's not a good thing.
Difficult problem;
International payments/purchases were (and are) often a potential indicator for fraud, but at the same time thanks to international shopping platforms people are now far more likely to make (or to try to make) legitimate international purchases. My guess is that ultimately 2-factor identification will be trusted more and international payments will be more likely to get approved. But the card providers are still catching up.
Of course someone can always expect problems if they try to make international payments involving a sanctioned country (they may not even realise; relevant bank employees are generally aware of a list of sanctioned countries, but the average consumer isn't).
I've sold items on ebay since about 2003, both personal and business.
Paypal is one of the worst when it comes to disputes. I'd rather deal with credit card companies than paypal and they're not pleasant to deal with.
In your situation, it sounds like someone found a bug in paypal's system and they're not accepting responsibility for it by not covering your loss. They make a mistake and don't want to own up to it.
If the money was sent from an "unsanctioned" country with the possibility of it being retracted, they shouldn't have put the money in your account in the first place until it passed the necessary security checks. When it comes to you or them taking a loss, they'll always let you take the hit if they can get away with it because thats the corporate way. Paypal was pretty much the only option for many years and they're not worried about losing you as a customer.
This is one of the benefits of cryptocurrency, once it becomes mainstream on the consumer level, it will eliminate the ability of these companies to be middlemen and have any authority over transferred funds.
Paypal is one of the worst when it comes to disputes. I'd rather deal with credit card companies than paypal and they're not pleasant to deal with.
In your situation, it sounds like someone found a bug in paypal's system and they're not accepting responsibility for it by not covering your loss. They make a mistake and don't want to own up to it.
If the money was sent from an "unsanctioned" country with the possibility of it being retracted, they shouldn't have put the money in your account in the first place until it passed the necessary security checks. When it comes to you or them taking a loss, they'll always let you take the hit if they can get away with it because thats the corporate way. Paypal was pretty much the only option for many years and they're not worried about losing you as a customer.
This is one of the benefits of cryptocurrency, once it becomes mainstream on the consumer level, it will eliminate the ability of these companies to be middlemen and have any authority over transferred funds.
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