[GREQ]

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[JBond]

I have Panasonic RP-HD10 and eq the frequency response according to GREQ's frequency response graph.

 

[Silvian]

Hi GREQ and JBond,
 
May I ask you both a question or perhaps it's a request for some comments. I wish I understood better in terms of physics what is happening inside an earcup but after all that I read it seems to be quite complex.
 
It appears that much what you GREQ did, especially after JBond's intervention with the frequency response curve, was to modify the FR curve. You are talking about "damping out the 1-2kHz spike" and "balancing out the midrange" which to my mind are to do with the FR curve but then you also mention "bass detail, texture and decay" which I have the feeling that they may not be related with that curve.
 
So do you think one could have achieved much of the improvements by using an EQ?
 
If indeed things are complex I realize that I might be inviting to opening a Pandora's box and somehow I feel that I wouldn't want that for this thread but of course any improvement will be welcomed by many of us.
 
I tried on one of my pairs these modifications but not with exactly the materials you used - and you did mention that you've been through a few therefore using the right materials is important, and I didn't feel much difference. But I also draw the conclusion in an older post that we seem to be sensitive to different things in sound.
 
By the way JBond, do you have the FR curve before GREQ's mod?
 
Cheers

 

[GREQ]

I believe JBond is adjusting his EQ accordingly to compensate for this graph I posted:
 

 
This is not my graph. I found it here: http://www.andaudio.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=125678
But looking at the other two graphs posted along with it, I deemed it reliable, as the others are better known and have similar measurements to graphs from other reputable, prolific sources.
 
I think using EQ alone can get you 100% of the way there with regards to FR alone. 
I do believe my mod is not perfect, and serves only as a tool of inspiration for others who either want to dabble in cheap, simple mods or those who simply want to get closer to their own personal 'perfect' sound.
Beyond that, I pretty sure there are significant flaws in the earpad design that accentuate specific low-mid-range frequencies and do not allow bass frequencies to decay 'naturally'.
The drivers naturally give the 1-2Khz peak, this is clearly audible if you take off the earpads and listen to the headphone 'naked', so to speak.
 
The micropore acoustic lens evens up a significant amount of this peak.
The use of Thermolam (or any thick damping material) to my ears, helped bring most of the mids and treble down a notch, giving the impression of a slightly more prominent sub-bass.
For example, acoustic foam can do this too, but attenuates far too much of the treble making a very 'veiled' muffled sound.
 
The foam ring seems to prevent the bass from becoming too boomy at these percieved louder volumes and therefore sounds, at least to my ears, more articulate (details/texture are easier to hear compared to using Thermolam alone).
 
 
I do believe a combination of EQ and mods would be ideal, however my mod methodology is somewhat purist and aims to compensate as much as possible for the lack of an EQ.
The main reason for this approach to headphone modification personally is that I have many headphones, and it's easier for me to mod them than to configure, save or memorize EQ patterns in every piece of software, DAP etc.
Also I use the HD10 almost exclusively outdoors, so tuning it to a darker/bassier signature is advantageous in louder environments where perception of bass frequencies diminishes quickly.
 
Perhaps one day I shall invest in some microphones and build a dummy head and start making my own measurements to finally add some science to all this nonsense. 

So, for now you'll just have to take my word (and years of experience) for it 

 ... or not - since as you rightly said...
 

...we seem to be sensitive to different things in sound.

 

[Silvian]

 Perhaps one day I shall invest in some microphones and build a dummy head and start making my own measurements to finally add some science to all this nonsense. 

Funny: that's exactly what I have been thinking over the last few months while playing with earpads not just for this headphone, in fact mainly for another brand. And the following is about earpads, to throw something else in this mix of nonsense

.
 
They seem to have a much larger influence over the sound than what, probably, many give them credit for - I certainly didn't realize it. I think I do have a good understanding of the basic acoustic phenomena in general but it appears that what takes place inside that small volume of air where the earpads are the only component between the sound which leaves the cup and our ears is a complicated mix which is not easy to analyze. Seeing that there are very few variations in the materials and the way the earpads are being constructed I actually concluded, for now, that the earpad is chosen principally for other aspects like comfort and/or price and, possibly, the sound is then tweaked in the other parts: driver, cup. If anyone knows how things actually take place during a design process I'd be curious to know. I managed to tweak the sound by playing with the components of the earpad, including the size but I can't yet say I acquired a proper scientific understanding that I can associate to my findings - and I don't have anything to measure things with.  Also, especially after reading things like this (http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/aes-headphone-technology-conference-sensory-profiling#J7WGxgRtp35soqBL.97) I am left wondering if the science or maybe just being able to measure stuff means much: are there too many other variables at play? One of the age-old questions in audio...

 

[Jimster480]

I'm really thinking about ordering these. Has anyone who ordered them still listening to them daily?
Do they hold up well under regular use?

 

[pholcus1975]

To me they're just phenomenal for the price!

 

[GREQ]

After a bit of EQ, the actual 'HD' part is unquestionable - separation, details and soundstage are pretty much unbeatable at the price point.

 

[Jimster480]

  After a bit of EQ, the actual 'HD' part is unquestionable - separation, details and soundstage are pretty much unbeatable at the price point.

I know that these are not IEM's but does anyone also own 1More Triple drivers and compared the two?

Also how do these sound with more bass heavy music like Psytrance? Does it have overblown bass or is it tight and clean?
 
I have some RP-HT360's and they sound decent for Psytrance but their bass is overblown for sure. Although their lack of instrument separation is more apparent when listening to Jazz and Classical especially when compared with higher end "tighter" IEMs/Cans.

 

[Jimster480]

I got my HD-10's today... Honestly in first listen I was disappointed, especially in vocals compared to my 1More Triple driver.
But as I listen more for some more hours, I have really fallen in love with the sound.

The instrument separation is quite good and the isolation is great. But the sub bass is amazing (something the 1More just lacks). It has such nice clear mids with such a "theatrical" sound, and this is just on the first hours of listening, no break-in/burn-in time yet.

 

[pholcus1975]

It will only get better with burn in. I changed stock cable with a Oyaide, bass even tighter and treble more precise!

 

[Contrail]

  The instrument separation is quite good and the isolation is great. But the sub bass is amazing (something the 1More just lacks). It has such nice clear mids with such a "theatrical" sound, and this is just on the first hours of listening, no break-in/burn-in time yet.

 
It's one of the reasons why I love them. 
The soundstage is also quite big considering they're closed. 
 
I'm surprised they're not getting the recognition they deserve. 

 

[GREQ]

 
I'm surprised they're not getting the recognition they deserve. 

I think it's mostly because of the uneven midrange, and midrange is really the most important aspect of sound as it's where most of the sound is happening and if the tonality is a bit different, people are quick to judge it poorly.

 

[Jimster480]

  I think it's mostly because of the uneven midrange, and midrange is really the most important aspect of sound as it's where most of the sound is happening and if the tonality is a bit different, people are quick to judge it poorly.

You are right, the mids are clear but certainly uneven and the tonality was literally the first thing I noticed and I like I said I was disappointed at first. So I can see where you are coming from, but the theatrical experience is a totally different listen from the 1More TD but very awesome in its own right.
The 18ohm impedance actually makes these a bit easier to drive as I have to lower the volume compared to the 1More TD (32ohm).

 

[Jimster480]

It will only get better with burn in. I changed stock cable with a Oyaide, bass even tighter and treble more precise!

What is that?