[BeatsWork]

Up on MD for $75 with one speaker preset https://www.massdrop.com/buy/out-of-your-head-speaker-software?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Inactive%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20Inactive%20Product%20Announcement%202015-04-11&mode=guest_open

 

[darinf]

  Now that we have scanners that can produce 3D models of your ear (for CIEMs), it would be amazing if they could be used to mathematically construct a correction curve for your ears.

Yes, it would be cool, but the math required boggles my mind.
 
The other problem is that I think the ear scanners would have to scan your whole ear, pinnae included. Not sure if they can do that or not.
 
Out Of Your Head is based on real measurements, not computer generated effects. So using a 3D scan of an ear would be very hard to translate into actual audio measurement files.
 
It's almost like giving someone a 3D scan of a violin and then writing software to generate the sound that the violin would make based on the 3D scan. It's relatively easy to record the sound of the violin, but it's virtually impossible to generate the sound of the violin based on how air would interact with a 3D model.

 

[darinf]

  Up on MD for $75 with one speaker preset https://www.massdrop.com/buy/out-of-your-head-speaker-software?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=Community%20-%20Audiophile%20-%20MAU%20%28Inactive%29&utm_campaign=Audiophile%20Inactive%20Product%20Announcement%202015-04-11&mode=guest_open

Thanks for posting that!

 

[bmichels]

I still love OOYH, but looking at it's secs, I am a little concerned to use it for my "audiophile" listening with my TOL system.
 
Indeed,
 
1 - with it Max sample rate is limited to 48 kHz    
 
Therefore, now all my High-Res music is down-sampled to 48 kHz !    (indeed, my DAC display 48 kHz input when I play a 24/192 file ! )
 
--> I wonder therefore is the side effects (at least with High res files) are not compensating the positive effect of OOYH
 
2 - since it run ONLY on a PC or a MAC, it require to use a computer as a source while I much prefer dedicated Music server like Aurender, ARIES, LUMIN....
 
 
Does anybody know if some HARDWARE solutions, inserted in the chain after (or before) the DAC, provide the same result than OOYH ?
 
 Some sort of DSP for Headphone that...really works !?

 

[darinf]

  I still love OOYH, but looking at it's secs, I am a little concerned to use it for my "audiophile" listening with my TOL system.
 
Indeed,
 
1 - with it Max sample rate is limited to 48 kHz    
 
Therefore, now all my High-Res music is down-sampled to 48 kHz !    (indeed, my DAC display 48 kHz input when I play a 24/192 file ! )
 
--> I wonder therefore is the side effects (at least with High res files) are not compensating the positive effect of OOYH
 

 
Here is a response I wrote to someone else regarding this issue:
 
 

Because Out Of Your Head processes all audio at 48KHz/32bit, all audio being fed to Out Of Your Head must be downsampled to that sample rate.
 
I realize that high res audio will have to be downsampled, but the CPU requirements for processing 8 channels of audio at high res was just too demanding.
 
The other thing to bear in mind is that Out Of Your Head is doing a significant amount of processing and alteration to the original audio data. Therefore it is very far from "bit perfect". Out Of Your Head is not meant to be bit perfect. It's changing the original audio significantly. In evaluating high res processing, we felt that the difference was not really audible and would require using most if not all of the CPU power.
 
In the future, if we can figure out how to reduce the CPU requirements for processing at 192KHz/24bit, then we could have a "High Res" version of Out Of Your Head as long as you have a fast computer. But as of know, we are focusing on lower latency and mobile devices first.

 

2 - since it run ONLY on a PC or a MAC, it require to use a computer as a source while I much prefer dedicated Music server like Aurender, ARIES, LUMIN....
 
 
Does anybody know if some HARDWARE solutions, inserted in the chain after (or before) the DAC, provide the same result than OOYH ?
 
 Some sort of DSP for Headphone that...really works !?

 Sounds like you might want a Smyth Realiser.

 

[bmichels]

   Sounds like you might want a Smyth Realiser.

Thanks, but then I will need to use the DAC inside the Smyth Realiser instead of my beloved TOL DAC !?

 

[ibbeebee]

Well I have finally got the program to work but in almost all cases I prefer the straight Dragonfly hf5's without processing & when I turn on WASAPI the is a further step up.
But I was listening to the surround files on the website & would love to have that effect in games.
The Rebecca Pidgeon Track sounded quite good, but with a bit to much treble emphasis & some sibilance on the vocal, the detail was wonderful thought. So like the Curates egg it was good in parts,I would have liked to have the option to turn the processing on & off on the Rebecca Pidgeon track  to see how much it changed. Regards ibbeebee

 

[laserjet6]

Hi all,
 
I just installed the OOYH trial and very much like the effect for movies.
However, I have one problem - interruptions in audio every 11 or so seconds. The audio stops for a split second and then resumes.
 
This happens both, using MPC HC and foobar2000 for music.
I am using an external DAC for headphones.
MPC HC is configured for DS to OOYH and my DAC is selected in OOYH. I hear the sound just fine, but with the interruptions.
The same happens in foobar using both DS or WASAPI to OOYH (re-sampled to 48khz).
 
Is that a limitation of the trial version or am I doing something wrong?
 
Also, I am surprised I cannot output 44.1khz to OOYH - Am I doing something wrong or is it indeed not supported?
 
Thank you

 

[olegausany]

Everything what is processed by OOYH has to be resampled first to 48000

 

[bpinnell]

On the topic of the 48KHz limit, I had the same reservations as I can easily hear the benefits of higher bit rate.  I have a lot of hi-res music both stereo and multichannel, so I didn't want to have those benefits wasted.  YMMV, but I was pleased to find that higher bit rates still sounded better even though they were being down-sampled to 48KHz.  I tried downsampling to 48KHz myself first thinking it would be the same or better, and noticed it wasn't.  Obviously it is difficult to compare hi-res processed versus unprocessed, but the benefits of the virtual speaker presentation are still very compelling for me as someone with a hi-res collection. 

 

[darinf]

  Hi all,
 
I just installed the OOYH trial and very much like the effect for movies.
However, I have one problem - interruptions in audio every 11 or so seconds. The audio stops for a split second and then resumes.
 
This happens both, using MPC HC and foobar2000 for music.
I am using an external DAC for headphones.
MPC HC is configured for DS to OOYH and my DAC is selected in OOYH. I hear the sound just fine, but with the interruptions.
The same happens in foobar using both DS or WASAPI to OOYH (re-sampled to 48khz).
 
Is that a limitation of the trial version or am I doing something wrong?
 
Also, I am surprised I cannot output 44.1khz to OOYH - Am I doing something wrong or is it indeed not supported?
 
Thank you

Hi Laserjet6,
 
Can you let me know what your computer specs are? Mainly CPU model and speed and RAM.
 
One thing that can cause audio glitches or skipping is not having the CPU power settings set to 100% especially on laptops or older CPU's.
 
You can find this setting by clicking "Change Advanced Power Settings" in the Windows Power Options control panel.
 
And then look under, "Processor Power Management". Set the minimum processor state to 100% and see if that fixes the problem.
 
If not, it's possible your CPU is having trouble keeping up, but we'll see if that's possible once I get your CPU specs.
 
Also, I assume that you don't get the sound glitches if Out Of Your Head is not running.
 
-Darin

 

[VandyMan]

  Yes, it would be cool, but the math required boggles my mind.
 
The other problem is that I think the ear scanners would have to scan your whole ear, pinnae included. Not sure if they can do that or not.
 
Out Of Your Head is based on real measurements, not computer generated effects. So using a 3D scan of an ear would be very hard to translate into actual audio measurement files.
 
It's almost like giving someone a 3D scan of a violin and then writing software to generate the sound that the violin would make based on the 3D scan. It's relatively easy to record the sound of the violin, but it's virtually impossible to generate the sound of the violin based on how air would interact with a 3D model.

 
I understand that the math would be very complex. It might well require many hours of processing to generate a correction. I was not proposing this as something you should do, but rather as my thoughts on where this is all going eventually. I also agree that the scans as done today for CIEMs may well not cover all parts of the ear needed for this application. However, I disagree with your violin analogy. This is much closer to room correction or speaker placement. For example, there is speaker placement software that can do calculations from a 3D model of the room and can even take into account furniture, materials, etc. A technique akin to ray casting is used.

 

[laserjet6]

  Hi Laserjet6,
 
Can you let me know what your computer specs are? Mainly CPU model and speed and RAM.
 
One thing that can cause audio glitches or skipping is not having the CPU power settings set to 100% especially on laptops or older CPU's.
 
You can find this setting by clicking "Change Advanced Power Settings" in the Windows Power Options control panel.
 
And then look under, "Processor Power Management". Set the minimum processor state to 100% and see if that fixes the problem.
 
If not, it's possible your CPU is having trouble keeping up, but we'll see if that's possible once I get your CPU specs.
 
Also, I assume that you don't get the sound glitches if Out Of Your Head is not running.
 
-Darin

 
Hi Darin,
 
You were right - it was the minimum processor state. I had it set to 5%, though the maximum was set to 100%. I guess the glitches are caused when the processor can't switch from minimum to maximum state fast enough. Nonetheless, I set it to 100% and there are no more interruptions, at least in the 2 min that trial allows.
Thank you for you help.
I am running an old desktop with Core 2 Duo @3.6 Ghz, which gets to somewhere between 5 - 15% playing music with OOYH on.
 
Some thoughts from me.
I think the idea is absolutely brilliant and your execution is really good. I do enjoy it as much as possible given that I listen with someone else head
When I close my eyes and try to imagine the room, I can really hear it, with speaker placement and all. (btw, pictures of the rooms would be really nice)
It is a good idea to give people the option to create their own measurements of rooms. Maybe even a community sharing the presets would be possible some day.
Atmos or DTS X may also be stunning and potentially a good selling point - Its easy for people to get a relatively OK 5.1 home cinema on a budget. But a 22 speaker setup...
 
On latency side: Would OOYH benefit from many cores, as for example encoding or decoding video does?
If so, it might be an idea to offload the processing to GPU (or integrated GPU).
Latency is really only an issue for gamers - and I would like to imagine a future like this:
Intel Skylake processor with quite capable integrated GPU, DirectX 12 giving you more access to hardware allowing to optimize processing in iGPU, OOYH with max 50ms latency - processed in iGPU, and a separate GPU for gaming of course.
 
I really like your software and I hope you will continue to develop the app and add more options, presets, etc.
I am not sure if I will buy it now, because I would need to replace my media streamer with a PC in the living room, as that is really where I would want to use it - so the overall investment would be high for me now. But I hope I will be able to do that one day, only to use OOYH listening to big buck speakers in a flat and still not have my neighbors complaining.
 

  On the topic of the 48KHz limit, I had the same reservations as I can easily hear the benefits of higher bit rate.  I have a lot of hi-res music both stereo and multichannel, so I didn't want to have those benefits wasted.  YMMV, but I was pleased to find that higher bit rates still sounded better even though they were being down-sampled to 48KHz.  I tried downsampling to 48KHz myself first thinking it would be the same or better, and noticed it wasn't.  Obviously it is difficult to compare hi-res processed versus unprocessed, but the benefits of the virtual speaker presentation are still very compelling for me as someone with a hi-res collection. 

 
Hi bpinnell,
To be honest I don't care much for "high res" music. I believe that 44.1khz is at the limits of my hearing. I cannot hear any other frequencies that 88.2khz or higher allows.
Nonetheless, up-sampling from 44.1 to 48 may not be optimal, I think, as its not linear 1:2 conversion.
But I understand that 48khz is the priority for Darin now, as the software really has the biggest benefit when watching to movies with multichannel audio, which is almost always 48khz.
 
 

 

[phoenixdogfan]

I t joined Massdrop today and became the 58th person to get this drop. I look forward to getting it on Thursday.

 

[darinf]

 
Hi Darin,
 
You were right - it was the minimum processor state. I had it set to 5%, though the maximum was set to 100%. I guess the glitches are caused when the processor can't switch from minimum to maximum state fast enough. Nonetheless, I set it to 100% and there are no more interruptions, at least in the 2 min that trial allows.
Thank you for you help.
I am running an old desktop with Core 2 Duo @3.6 Ghz, which gets to somewhere between 5 - 15% playing music with OOYH on.
 
Some thoughts from me.
I think the idea is absolutely brilliant and your execution is really good. I do enjoy it as much as possible given that I listen with someone else head
When I close my eyes and try to imagine the room, I can really hear it, with speaker placement and all. (btw, pictures of the rooms would be really nice)
It is a good idea to give people the option to create their own measurements of rooms. Maybe even a community sharing the presets would be possible some day.
Atmos or DTS X may also be stunning and potentially a good selling point - Its easy for people to get a relatively OK 5.1 home cinema on a budget. But a 22 speaker setup...
 
On latency side: Would OOYH benefit from many cores, as for example encoding or decoding video does?
If so, it might be an idea to offload the processing to GPU (or integrated GPU).
Latency is really only an issue for gamers - and I would like to imagine a future like this:
Intel Skylake processor with quite capable integrated GPU, DirectX 12 giving you more access to hardware allowing to optimize processing in iGPU, OOYH with max 50ms latency - processed in iGPU, and a separate GPU for gaming of course.
 
I really like your software and I hope you will continue to develop the app and add more options, presets, etc.
I am not sure if I will buy it now, because I would need to replace my media streamer with a PC in the living room, as that is really where I would want to use it - so the overall investment would be high for me now. But I hope I will be able to do that one day, only to use OOYH listening to big buck speakers in a flat and still not have my neighbors complaining.
 

Glad you got it working.
 
And thank you for posting your impressions and feedback.
 
Regarding latency, yes, we have looked at using the GPU, but haven't done it yet. We are getting close to releasing a new engine which brings down the latency on games down to under 50ms. This will be a free upgrade to current owners.
 
Regarding your living room setup, yes, you would require some type of Windows or Mac computer hooked up to your TV. Unfortunately we don't have a hardware solution yet. Not sure if I ever want to get into the hardware business. But someday I could see licensing our technology to a hardware manufacturer.
 
But even if you don't want to connect a laptop to your TV, (I don't have one in my living room) I do find that being able to watch movies or listen to megabuck speakers when I am on a plane, at the airport, in a hotel room, or at my desk, is awesome. I use Out Of Your Head all the time even though I rarely use it on my living room TV.