Oritek vs Zap Filter modded Zhaolu 2.5 shoot out
May 22, 2007 at 7:14 PM Post #46 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox
Both my CD player and steve's zhaolu use the CS DAC I believe and could be why our experiences are different


I've listened at length to the AD vs. CS with the discrete output section in a D2.0 (easy to swap DAC boards!) and the unanymous decision of the small groups in attendance was always in favor of the AD.
It's interesting to note that some of the same people including myself liked the CS better in the original Zhaolu with the caps bypass mod only.
 
May 22, 2007 at 7:37 PM Post #48 of 100
Did you use the same digital cable on both dac's? This may have been stated but I just started reading.
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May 22, 2007 at 7:40 PM Post #49 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Did you use the same digital cable on both dac's? This may have been stated but I just started reading.
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yeah... do you think it makes a difference though? i'm currently using an half an RCA cable i found in the local dumpster as my digital cable...
 
May 22, 2007 at 7:44 PM Post #50 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ori /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've listened at length to the AD vs. CS with the discrete output section in a D2.0 (easy to swap DAC boards!) and the unanymous decision of the small groups in attendance was always in favor of the AD.


Oh, I know... but that is with your output stage, an amp that I am likely unfamiliar with and headphones/speakers that I don't use. It's also uncertain what people are listening for. Some notice details standing out [ie. more detail] and immediately equate that to being 'better'. I would put more weight on impressions from someone who has lived with both for some time and gotten to know both chips well, so your personal opinion is duly noted.

It's not like I have a choice in any case... as I'm not about to be replacing the DAC chip in my CD player.
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Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
yeah... do you think it makes a difference though? i'm currently using an half an RCA cable i found in the local dumpster as my digital cable...


Replace that cable stat! I don't think there is a huge difference in 'high end' digital cables, but I've heard the difference between an RCA I had lying around and a purpose built [using rather cheap components] cable with proper connectors... and the difference was rather striking. I might even have an extry lying around, but I'm not 100% on that.
 
May 22, 2007 at 7:47 PM Post #51 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's not like I have a choice in any case... as I'm not about to be replacing the DAC chip in my CD player.
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CS4390 DAC? Time to replace...
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May 22, 2007 at 7:56 PM Post #52 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
CS4390 DAC? Time to replace...


Why?
 
May 22, 2007 at 7:58 PM Post #53 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Why?


I'm just kidding... but in my experience the CS DACs sounded weird to me. You might prefer the AD or PCM DACs better.
 
May 22, 2007 at 8:05 PM Post #54 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I'm just kidding... but in my experience the CS DACs sounded weird to me. You might prefer the AD or PCM DACs better.


Figured.
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I'm not sure that I can just swap in an AD or PCM DAC, though it would be interesting to try a true balanced current output DAC which would allow the Zapfilter to handle the I to V conversion. Redesigning the DAC in my CD player is not something that I want to be thinking about right now though. Even if I had the knowledge, I've got no time.
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May 22, 2007 at 8:37 PM Post #55 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by cotdt /img/forum/go_quote.gif
yeah... do you think it makes a difference though? i'm currently using an half an RCA cable i found in the local dumpster as my digital cable...



In my system cables make a noticeable difference. I know some IC's make the difference between liking and not liking the sound. The complaints of a small soundstage with the zap filter is not consistent with my experiences. I wondered if the digital cable or the IC was choking off the soundstage. Did you use the same IC's on both dacs?
 
May 22, 2007 at 8:54 PM Post #56 of 100
Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In my system cables make a noticeable difference. I know some IC's make the difference between liking and not liking the sound. The complaints of a small soundstage with the zap filter is not consistent with my experiences. I wondered if the digital cable or the IC was choking off the soundstage. Did you use the same IC's on both dacs?


Yeah we used the same digital cable on both DACs out of the wireless squeezebox. I didn't mean to imply the soundstage of the Zapfilter was small, I would say the width of the soundstage was very deep, but in terms of lateral soundstage, the singer was placed pretty close in front of you. On the Ori, the singer was placed 20 feet away. I think maybe the tube amps had something to do with it. Do you think the Doge 6210 has a small soundstage, in your experience? I know that interconnects can make a big difference, i used a cheap ratshack cable which in my experience puts out a big soundstage.
 
May 23, 2007 at 12:18 AM Post #57 of 100
Wow, this is a much bigger response then I would have expected! First and foremost this was fun and some thoughts we thought that others might enjoy, nothing more. The situation could have been better but all cables amps and phones stayed the same through the comparison. The amps and DAC's had been warmed up well over 5 hours by this point and to our ears the differences were enough to post a thread about (remember that we were listening via two different amps at the same time with different cans and came to the same conclusions). I agree that cables can make a difference. We did an A/B comparison with Alex's interconnects and an old monster cable I had lying around and the difference was audible immediately. The digital cable that I used is a good Monster cable and does the job to my liking which is all that really matters right
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Part two will happen in a few weeks once Philip and I can schedule some time. I don't know of the Aleph 30 will power my speakers very well but it's worth a shot in balanced/SE for a comparison. My present amp is SE only. Anyone else in the SD area is welcome to add a DAC to the comparison, the more the merrier!
 
May 23, 2007 at 3:24 AM Post #59 of 100
The problem with the zapfilter is the gain. Ori is able to set the gain to the DAC so that it gives proper RMS output. The Zapfilter has no gain adjustment so depending on the voltage out of your DAC you can endup with too high of a voltage-out as the OP experienced. He is probably overloading his amp giving the compressed sound stage.

I ruled out the Zapfilter when they couldn't even tell me the RMS out with it hooked to my DAC. Ori is really the only replacement analog stage for voltage output DAC's like the Zhalou I would use.

When you want to go higher end get a current output DAC and look at Borbely or Welborne labs I/V stages.
 
May 23, 2007 at 5:05 AM Post #60 of 100
great write Aaron! I was wondering what you've been doing lately
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I haven't got chance to listen to Zapfilter modded Zhaolu. But with OMZ I am very satisfied and don't feel the urge to move on in terms of source. I, too, haven't been sitting idle. Here is what I am gonna to be driven by OMZ

EDIT: stop the show off!
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