[Earbones]

I'm quite certain that if you compared a new P9 with your burned-in ones, you'd notice little difference. I like the richness and power of the bass but it pretty much stays the same through use, and it's a matter of taste whether one likes it or not. IMO there is no real logical reason for any headphone to change "dramatically" from use, unless it becomes defective. Another example was the Audioquest Nighthawks which were said to change dramatically after break-in. I was able to compare a new and an old and noticed little if any difference. It's usually a matter of adjusting to the sound signature and accepting it (or not) and pads softening from use, or headband grip loosening up a bit.

I definitely concede that for the P9 in particular, part (or all) of the change in the sound may definitely be due to physical aspects of the pads, band, etc. I’ve been busy lately, so I’ve only had time to enjoy the change, not analyze it’s cause.

However I disagree that cases of significant burn-in are myths. I definitely think dramatic burn-in is fairly rare, but there is more than enough empirical evidence to support it’s existence... Far more, say, then there is to support the notion that a $600 cable sounds any different than whatever comes with a given headphone (particularly bad stock cables or microphonics aside). The Nighthawk, as you mentioned, is a good example... Having owned them as well, I can say that this was my experience, although that change was not as dramatic as what I experienced with the P9.

At the end of the day, you subscribe to burn-in or you don’t. I think far more often than not it either doesn’t happen at all, or it’s very subtle. The slightly less tight but punchier bass in a well-used HD650 vs one just out of the box, for instance (assuming both are newer “post-veil” units).

 

[kelly200269]

'Burn-in' with headphones is either a complete myth or it has negligible impact, if any.
What IS pertinent is the 'psycho-acoustic' habituation period. When you listen to a 'new' pair of cans with a distinctly different FR/sound to those that you're already used-to, it takes the brain a little while to 'process' this. It's like 'seeing the world around you through a slightly different window'. And after a while, you wither like it, or you don't.
I was definitely on-the-fence when I first got my (already 'burnt-in') HD800's, but wouldn't be without them now. It took my 'ears'/brain a little while to appreciate their sonic signature, but they're definitely keepers.
Conversely, I returned my B&W P9's after ten minutes. I hated their bloated bass and recessed midrange.
At the end of the day, it's horses-for-courses. But headphone 'burn in'? Codswallop! lol

 

[kelly200269]

No, it's better..

Hmmmm… Not sure about that? BUT the PM-2's are very, very good IMO

 

[Earbones]

'Burn-in' with headphones is either a complete myth or it has negligible impact, if any.
What IS pertinent is the 'psycho-acoustic' habituation period. When you listen to a 'new' pair of cans with a distinctly different FR/sound to those that you're already used-to, it takes the brain a little while to 'process' this. It's like 'seeing the world around you through a slightly different window'. And after a while, you wither like it, or you don't.
I was definitely on-the-fence when I first got my (already 'burnt-in') HD800's, but wouldn't be without them now. It took my 'ears'/brain a little while to appreciate their sonic signature, but they're definitely keepers.
Conversely, I returned my B&W P9's after ten minutes. I hated their bloated bass and recessed midrange.
At the end of the day, it's horses-for-courses. But headphone 'burn in'? Codswallop! lol

Habituation does not account for swapping between two different sets of identical cans, one burned in and the other not, and noticing a difference, as many have done with the Nighthawk. And many more with the HD650 (although as stated earlier, the burn-in with the latter is far less significant than the former). Nor does habituation account for a de-muddying effect. The P9 initially presented (slightly) muddy due to the bass hump. However after burn-in, separation and detail emerged as legitimate strengths of the can. Habituation doesn’t work that way.

Additionally, habituation is far more likely to change one’s opinion about a bright headphone like the HD800 than a bloated/bassy can. You are better able to adjust to high-pitched tones than low ones. That’s why after several minutes you can tune out the high whine of a refrigerator’s failing motor, but the steady thrum of your neighbor’s overly-subbed home theatre system still drives you crazy after an hour.

At the end of the day, the empirical evidence for burn-in is just too well-documented by too many critical listeners and industry professionals to casually dismiss the phenomena out of hand. But if you choose to believe that burn-in is a myth, that’s fine... Different strokes and all.

Though I really think you missed out on a superb headphone in the P9. Should have given it more than 10 minutes

 

[kelly200269]

At the end of the day, the empirical evidence for burn-in is just too well-documented by too many critical listeners and industry professionals to casually dismiss the phenomena out of hand.

Ummm. I don't think so. Perhaps you could cite your 'body of evidence'?

 

[Earbones]

Ummm. I don't think so. Perhaps you could cite your 'body of evidence'?

Ummm. I do.

But it’s not up to me to hold your hand and walk you through the literally tens of thousands of instances wherein people with better ears and more experience than us refer to their experience with burn-in. Again, I believe burn-in is not an established fact. But I also believe there is too much evidence to dismiss it out of hand. Furthermore, opinions on how much burn-in can occur differ wildly among those who recognize the phenomena.

Okay, I’ll hold your hand a little... Tyll Herstens of Inner Fidelity has performed three tests- a subjective listening test and two measurement-oriented tests all of which seem to support the existence of burn-in (although the last test was a squeaker). His conclusions are much like my own. Is burn-in proven fact? No. Proven myth? No. Has Herstens had personal listening experiences he believes supports the idea of burn-in? Yes.

Where Herstens and I differ is our idea of how much a headphone may change. He believes that if burn-in exists, then it only constitutes a small change. I think that if we are to tactility accept the idea of burn-in at all, then we have to apply the notion across the entire spectrum of available headphones, of which there are thousands. Who is to say there aren’t a few odd cans out there that present dramatic burn-in? After all, if burn-in exists, it is most likely due to a “settling” in the physical characteristics of the drivers... Surely different headphones may present differently here? The P9 in particular utilizes a unique, highly movable driver. Could not such characteristics make for a more dramatic settling than other less movable drivers?

Regardless of what you believe, the bottom line is this... If one approaches the topic with objectivity, then it is difficult to simply say burn-in doesn’t exist. Better men than us have tried.

 

[Beagle]

I really think you missed out on a superb headphone in the P9. Should have given it more than 10 minutes

I gave it 10 months and the bass stayed pretty much the same. I did like it, I did like that sense of power and authority that live music has.

Regarding burn-in, have there been documented cases where burn-in made the headphone sound worse than when it was new? You would think this should occur at least 50% of the time when something sounds great out of the box..

 

[Earbones]

I gave it 10 months and the bass stayed pretty much the same. I did like it, I did like that sense of power and authority that live music has.

Regarding burn-in, have there been documented cases where burn-in made the headphone sound worse than when it was new? You would think this should occur at least 50% of the time when something sounds great out of the box..

Yep, I’ve definitely experienced that. It sucks when it happens. As far as documented cases go, again, I don’t think any instances have been absolutely proven one way or the other as documented fact. Herstens and others have certainly been able to show some pretty decent evidence for burn-in, but it’s not established, as far as the measurements go. Compelling, but not established. Though in his blind listening test, Herstens got something like 13 out of 15 correct... No mention of which he preferred, however ha ha.

 

[Slim1970]

I'm lucky enough to pickup a pair of these new the just the other day. My initial impressions were the that this headphone sounds thin, bright and lacks body. I was ready to turn right around and sell immediately. I gave it day of "burn-in/play time" and now I can hear some differences in the sound. The treble is starting to smooth out and the midrange is sounding fuller and the bass a some weight to it.

I can't say that I'm a believer in burn-in but factory fresh products do need some time to settle in to perform or sound their best. These headphones are doing just that and I can't wait to hear them after putting some more hours on them. These might be keepers after all.

 

[Beagle]

I'm lucky enough to pickup a pair of these new the just the other day. My initial impressions were the that this headphone sounds thin, bright and lacks body. I was ready to turn right around and sell immediately. I gave it day of "burn-in/play time" and now I can hear some differences in the sound. The treble is starting to smooth out and the midrange is sounding fuller and the bass a some weight to it.

I can't say that I'm a believer in burn-in but factory fresh products do need some time to settle in to perform or sound their best. These headphones are doing just that and I can't wait to hear them after putting some more hours on them. These might be keepers after all.

Not the be-all and end-all of headphones but they won't let you down.

 

[rockytopwiz]

Not the be-all and end-all of headphones but they won't let you down.

Ha, it's crazy the amount you can spend on HP stuff nowadaze.

Sorry to go off topic here- but seeing how u have the mx4 and Diana which do u prefer? Steve Guttenberg says the mx4 barely beats Diana. Wishing I would got in on the sale

 

[Slim1970]

Not the be-all and end-all of headphones but they won't let you down.

True, I have some other TOTL cans that are definitely better. But the PM2's are definitely in the upper tier of the mid-fi cans for sure.

 

[HungryPanda]

I like the PM2 and it is certainly lighter than my Audeze LCD-X

 

[Slim1970]

I like the PM2 and it is certainly lighter than my Audeze LCD-X

The PM2's are also more balanced sounding to my ears. I liked the LCD-X's when I had them but the upper midrange/lower treble dip bothered me. If the PM2's had Audeze's bass impact and slam I think this headphone would be even more well received. But I like what I'm hearing so far out of the PM2's

 

[Beagle]

True, I have some other TOTL cans that are definitely better. But the PM2's are definitely in the upper tier of the mid-fi cans for sure.

I find them hi-fi, just 'mid' priced.