ONKYO DP-X1 | Dual Sabre Dacs | Balanced | Sabre BTL Amp | MQA | DSD 256 | Android 5 |

[jehugo]

No dap manufacturers "get it right" because we all want different things and tradeoffs are made to control cost.

Myself, I could not care less about removable batteries,Bluetooth, or any cable connections beyond balanced out. I want a robust native player with tidal. The latter means Android. The Dp-X1 ticks those boxes save, yet to be resolved quirks from tidal for which there are workarounds. Device is not perfect for everyone's needs but does what a dap should do very well. Can't please everyone!

 

[Torq]

No dap manufacturers "get it right" because we all want different things and tradeoffs are made to control cost.

Myself, I could not care less about removable batteries,Bluetooth, or any cable connections beyond balanced out. I want a robust native player with tidal. The latter means Android. The Dp-X1 ticks those boxes save, yet to be resolved quirks from tidal for which there are workarounds. Device is not perfect for everyone's needs but does what a dap should do very well. Can't please everyone!

 
Android is certainly not required for TIDAL support.  TIDAL have an excellent integration program that allows for companies to build their own TIDAL clients as befits their needs.  Requiring Android for TIDAL at the moment is simply because no DAP manufacturer can be bothered to do the work.
 
It's the same thing with the reliance on the default Android audio stack that results in forced upsampling.
 
It's either cost-cutting (to your point) or a failure to connect the importance of these things to their audience, but either way it's either a conscious choice or failure to understand what's being asked for.
 
The DP-X1 is probably the closest thing out there to ticking every hardware box for most people (possibly excepting price).  The outstanding issues are, headphone jack longevity excepted, all addressable in software.  Curiously, these issues still remain six months after launch - which doesn't give me a lot of hope they'll ever be corrected.
 
The inability, or unwillingness, of these manufacturer's not to half-ass almost-perfect products, has put me in a position where the only way I can get what I want is to build it myself.  And that's what I've decided to do ... though I'll post details elsewhere when the time comes to start talking about that properly.

 

[jehugo]

True. Interesting perspective on Android from the Audioquest folks in the new dragonfly thread.

 

[Despotes]

Something as expensive as the X1 should not be a throw away item simply because the damn battery is wearing out. I debated ordering the X1, but for it's price it shouldn't be a disposable item and so ordered the much cheaper Cowon PD. At least the PD's battery is accessible if I should ever decide to replace it.
Yes, I know the PD doesn't even compare, but the thought of dealing with a dying $800 DAP doesn't set well--just because of a battery!
Damn you X1! I still want you! LOL  

 

[goldendarko]

Why can't you just replace the battery?

 

[sq3rjick]

Why can't you just replace the battery?

While theoretically you could, there are a lot of hassles and roadblocks in the way.
 
1) The battery isn't easily accessible.  There is no battery compartment, battery door, or screws to take the device apart.  You'd have to heat the screen (carefully) to melt the glue and very carefully lift the screen and separate it from the body.
 
2) We don't know the specifics about the actual battery.  It's probably something that you can get from an OEM, but it may be a custom-built battery designed to fit in the constraints of the case.  As far as I know, nobody knows if you can purchase the batteries from a 3rd party for these devices.
 
3) Onkyo doesn't have a robust DAP product line, so 3rd parties may be hesitant to carry batteries if they aren't going sell a lot of them (assuming the battery is in some way unique and not a standard, off-the-shelf battery).
 
I do wish it were easier to get into the device besides separating the screen from the body.  I'd love to be able to internally epoxy the headphone jack, and it would make battery replacement better (plus, I'd love to see if I could get a higher capacity battery in the device).

 

[smilemantts]

The outstanding issues are, headphone jack longevity excepted, all addressable in software.

I'm worried the aptX Bluetooth cutting in and out (on my Momemtum 2.0s) is a hardware problem, or has someone already confirmed that this is software problem? The reason I suspect it might be hardware is because of very limited antenna window design.

 

[Peridot]

No dap manufacturers "get it right" because we all want different things and tradeoffs are made to control cost.

Myself, I could not care less about removable batteries,Bluetooth, or any cable connections beyond balanced out. I want a robust native player with tidal. The latter means Android. The Dp-X1 ticks those boxes save, yet to be resolved quirks from tidal for which there are workarounds. Device is not perfect for everyone's needs but does what a dap should do very well. Can't please everyone!

 
I agree that trade-offs need to be made in the choice of a particular device for a particular user. Getting it right is surely about making the advertised functionality work correctly, which is a different thing. I would love the DP-X1 to have a removable battery but I'm not going to complain that it hasn't because I accepted that trade-off when I bought it. What I will complain about is the poor performance on Tidal playback with a device that's marketed to users of streaming services. The FiiO X7 that I bought in the first instance was even worse in that offline streaming content could only be stored to its meagre internal memory. It's particularly annoying that a general purpose smartphone can perform these functions without any problems while a custom-designed audio device can't.
 
By the way, what is the workaround for the playback glitches on offline Tidal content?

 

[bflat]

There have been many studies about LiON battery longevity. Under normal use, it will easily last 1500+ recharge cycles. that's nearly 5 years if you recharge every day. Now if you are completely draining your battery to 0% every day, it will still last about 2 years.
 
However, that's not to say LiON batteries can't go bad prematurely, but that is due to manufacturing defect and not a limitation of LiON technology.

 

[Despotes]

  There have been many studies about LiON battery longevity. Under normal use, it will easily last 1500+ recharge cycles. that's nearly 5 years if you recharge every day. Now if you are completely draining your battery to 0% every day, it will still last about 2 years.
 
However, that's not to say LiON batteries can't go bad prematurely, but that is due to manufacturing defect and not a limitation of LiON technology.

Also, it's not just about longevity, but the diminished capacity over time. At some point, depending on user, it will become unacceptable for practical use. 

 

[tjdub]

I agree that trade-offs need to be made in the choice of a particular device for a particular user. Getting it right is surely about making the advertised functionality work correctly, which is a different thing. I would love the DP-X1 to have a removable battery but I'm not going to complain that it hasn't because I accepted that trade-off when I bought it. What I will complain about is the poor performance on Tidal playback with a device that's marketed to users of streaming services. The FiiO X7 that I bought in the first instance was even worse in that offline streaming content could only be stored to its meagre internal memory. It's particularly annoying that a general purpose smartphone can perform these functions without any problems while a custom-designed audio device can't.

By the way, what is the workaround for the playback glitches on offline Tidal content?

Try unticking the use nuplayer option in developer settings, I've done this in all my phone's and now the do-x1 and have none of the playback problems people are reporting

 

[goldendarko]

  While theoretically you could, there are a lot of hassles and roadblocks in the way.
 
1) The battery isn't easily accessible.  There is no battery compartment, battery door, or screws to take the device apart.  You'd have to heat the screen (carefully) to melt the glue and very carefully lift the screen and separate it from the body.
 
2) We don't know the specifics about the actual battery.  It's probably something that you can get from an OEM, but it may be a custom-built battery designed to fit in the constraints of the case.  As far as I know, nobody knows if you can purchase the batteries from a 3rd party for these devices.
 
3) Onkyo doesn't have a robust DAP product line, so 3rd parties may be hesitant to carry batteries if they aren't going sell a lot of them (assuming the battery is in some way unique and not a standard, off-the-shelf battery).
 
I do wish it were easier to get into the device besides separating the screen from the body.  I'd love to be able to internally epoxy the headphone jack, and it would make battery replacement better (plus, I'd love to see if I could get a higher capacity battery in the device).

Hmm, seems very disconcerting. Sounds like a poor design if the battery can't be replaced, so essentially it just becomes a brick when the battery dies?

 

[Torq]

I'm worried the aptX Bluetooth cutting in and out (on my Momemtum 2.0s) is a hardware problem, or has someone already confirmed that this is software problem? The reason I suspect it might be hardware is because of very limited antenna window design.

Based on what I've read, I think the Bluetooth issue is a per-unit hardware issue rather than a design-fault per-se (you could argue that a design should be more consistently manufacturable of course).  In other words, while the problem is a hardware issue, it's doesn't affect every unit equally.
 
That's just based on what I've read though.

 

[addyg]

Is iPhone battery replaceable by user?  No
 
Is Samsung battery replaceable by user? No
 
Is HTC battery replaceable by user?  No
 
My last replaceable battery phone is back 6 years ago I remember.
 
Is it impossible to replace a battery on iPhone ?  No, some technical guys/company can do that.
 
So after 2-3 years, if you want to replace the battery of dp-x1. I think you can get someone to do the job.

 

[bflat]

Also, it's not just about longevity, but the diminished capacity over time. At some point, depending on user, it will become unacceptable for practical use. 

Agreed. But like many smartphones, don't buy a model that just makes it on battery life you need on a day to day basis. If you need 10 hours a day, get a phone that can go 16. If you get one that does 10 as a paper specification you will be greatly dissatisfied in real use. The same principle applies to DAPs and other electronics.