[jhoff80]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Replace the stock cables with these: APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure - APS Audio LLC. Oh, and VoLTaG3, please tell me you've heard the er4p/s before so that your opinion is based on actual experience and not from what you've read

Yeah, but not everyone who is spending $180-300 on a company's flagship earphones wants to spend another $200 on something the manufacturer has already fixed on another product line.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm sure the APS cable is worth it, its just that Etymotic has improved microphonics with cables on their other products, from what I understand, and you'd think that'd migrate up the chain.

But, I still love my ER4P, and the only thing I could ever see myself replacing them with is the hf2, only for convenience's sake, to use them with a smartphone with a 3.5mm jack and have the inline microphone.

 

[Taikero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank gods I'm not the only one who feels this way about that ass-tastic cable. Edit: Also HF5 does not sound worse than ER-4P. It sounds different, and in my opinion much better. My HF5s exhibit no sibilance whatsoever and my old pair of ER-4P were nails on a chalkboard with some albums.

Honestly, if I had to pick an IEM I own and only one, it'd be either the HF5 or the Image X10, but more than likely the HF5 because the X10 is so bleeding fragile (cable at least) I feel like I'm going to break it every time I listen.

True enough, absolutely no sibilance (except super-accentuated "ch" sounds). It's some kind of miracle of audio reproduction I haven't heard elsewhere, even more considering the crystal clear highs.

 

[nc8000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhoff80 /img/forum/go_quote.gif But, I still love my ER4P, and the only thing I could ever see myself replacing them with is the hf2, only for convenience's sake, to use them with a smartphone with a 3.5mm jack and have the inline microphone.

Yes that was exactly what I did and then monster morphed the ER4 into balanced for home use and that is just plain fantastic stuff.

 

[pdupiano]

I disagree with the OP regarding the quality of the W3's versus the Etys. While at first blush the difference may seem to come out of preference and "use" of the iems (whether its for fun listening or "monitoring"), there is an overall quality difference between the two. As many have picked up, there's the wire issue with the etys and I would also add the requirement of an amp is a bit of a pain if you want something to jog with or just walk around with. And I would also take the stand that if you eq the W3's to have a similar sound sig as the etys (bass reduce, treble up) you will have a better comparison between the two in terms of which is more detailed. I dont have access to a W3 any longer so if anyone has both of these, please check this out and let us know if there are noticeable differences between the two. I highly doubt a single driver iem can equal the range of abilities of a triple or dual driver.

 

[Spyro]

I, too, disagree with the OP and I have owned 3 pairs of Etys over the years.

Before TFPro and SE530 were introduced I would tend to agree with you that ER4 was still one of the best if not the best but after these triple drivers (plus IE8 and W3 now), I personally find the Ety's clearly knocked down to a mid-level IEM...especially out of box, un-amped. Relative to the newer multi-drivers, they sound too much like IEM's, the dynamic range is very limited and the bass takes a huge backseat once the music gets busy which will be a problem for almost any single armature.

 

[VoLTaG3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Replace the stock cables with these: APureSound - Where The Music Is Always Pure - APS Audio LLC. Oh, and VoLTaG3, please tell me you've heard the er4p/s before so that your opinion is based on actual experience and not from what you've read

I've heard them before...

 

[Navyblue]

Bad cable? I agree. But I wear them over the ears I don't have problem walking with them, otherwise I can't stand them, even the shirt clip doesn't quite do it.

As for ER-4P needing an amp, I find that an amp improves it just like it improves the W3, which is not that much, but it's there. But trying to drive ER-4S with my DAP the dynamic is pretty much gone.

If you go to a typical rock concert, where each instrument goes through a long chain of electronics and amplification, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what W3, TPF10 or IE8 give, pretty far from what ER-4 sounds like, and I'd argue not what SE530 sounds like either, cymbals should sound a lot more splashy.

If you have heard a typical jazz trio live and unamplified, say composed of a piano, double bass and drum, or anything like that, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what ER-4 produces than what W3 produces. You'd hear that the bass doesn't bloom, doesn't sound as loud as the piano, tight, textured, and subtle. Piano doesn't have that "fullness" portrayed in many phones either. Bass deficient? We could tell that to sound boards and EQ, but can we tell that to acoustic instruments?

So how do we define what is natural and what is not? I'm afraid the argument would go deeper than where I want to go, and I just want to leave it at that.

As for what is enjoyable and what is not, it would be a matter of taste. W3 is enjoyable to me for its warmth it gives me the "fullness" of sound if you like to call it that, it's like a cup of espresso. ER-4 gives me a clarity and intimacy that I find addictive, it's like a cup of nice earl grey. Neither one can do the other's job.

As for EQing them so that they sound similar, the EQ on my DAP degrades sound, transparency takes a definite hit. Introducing another variable to eliminate a variable aside, IMHO if one doesn't like how an IEM sound, moving on is the best solution, meddling with EQ would only be the next best. It's much easier and better to make apple juice with apples than with oranges.

My point is they are different animals, to fit one into another's mold, you'd naturally find them inferior, because that is just not what they are. They are not for everyone either, but it's not fair to say sushi is cat food because one doesn't like raw fish, there's always burger and curry and a gazillion of others out there.

 

[tstarn06]

You want updated ER4P? Get the Phonak Audeo, aka PFE. Simple. Detail, transparency, clarity, but not overly analytic or dry (with the black filters and Comply foamies). I owned the ER4P, so I have some reference.

 

[pdupiano]

By in large, this thread is dead.... quite frankly we all agree about the cable, and the amp situation is debatable (but thats not what were discussing). If you really believe and point out that these iems are different "animals" then quite frankly theres nothing to discuss. Its like discussing "apples and oranges" so just leave it be. But if you really feel that way, I wonder why you would even post about it, knowing in advance that you already made up your mind that theyre different animals. Furthermore if you knew them to be "uncomparable" why did you compare them in the first place? Well tharse my 2 cents and a pickle. But really er4s/p without an amp is really weak, and its nothing like running the W3's or Se530's unampped.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navyblue /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bad cable? I agree. But I wear them over the ears I don't have problem walking with them, otherwise I can't stand them, even the shirt clip doesn't quite do it. As for ER-4P needing an amp, I find that an amp improves it just like it improves the W3, which is not that much, but it's there. But trying to drive ER-4S with my DAP the dynamic is pretty much gone. If you go to a typical rock concert, where each instrument goes through a long chain of electronics and amplification, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what W3, TPF10 or IE8 give, pretty far from what ER-4 sounds like, and I'd argue not what SE530 sounds like either, cymbals should sound a lot more splashy. If you have heard a typical jazz trio live and unamplified, say composed of a piano, double bass and drum, or anything like that, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what ER-4 produces than what W3 produces. You'd hear that the bass doesn't bloom, doesn't sound as loud as the piano, tight, textured, and subtle. Piano doesn't have that "fullness" portrayed in many phones either. Bass deficient? We could tell that to sound boards and EQ, but can we tell that to acoustic instruments? So how do we define what is natural and what is not? I'm afraid the argument would go deeper than where I want to go, and I just want to leave it at that. As for what is enjoyable and what is not, it would be a matter of taste. W3 is enjoyable to me for its warmth it gives me the "fullness" of sound if you like to call it that, it's like a cup of espresso. ER-4 gives me a clarity and intimacy that I find addictive, it's like a cup of nice earl grey. Neither one can do the other's job. As for EQing them so that they sound similar, the EQ on my DAP degrades sound, transparency takes a definite hit. Introducing another variable to eliminate a variable aside, IMHO if one doesn't like how an IEM sound, moving on is the best solution, meddling with EQ would only be the next best. It's much easier and better to make apple juice with apples than with oranges. My point is they are different animals, to fit one into another's mold, you'd naturally find them inferior, because that is just not what they are. They are not for everyone either, but it's not fair to say sushi is cat food because one doesn't like raw fish, there's always burger and curry and a gazillion of others out there.

huh?

 

[EFN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navyblue /img/forum/go_quote.gif Bad cable? I agree. But I wear them over the ears I don't have problem walking with them, otherwise I can't stand them, even the shirt clip doesn't quite do it. As for ER-4P needing an amp, I find that an amp improves it just like it improves the W3, which is not that much, but it's there. But trying to drive ER-4S with my DAP the dynamic is pretty much gone. If you go to a typical rock concert, where each instrument goes through a long chain of electronics and amplification, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what W3, TPF10 or IE8 give, pretty far from what ER-4 sounds like, and I'd argue not what SE530 sounds like either, cymbals should sound a lot more splashy. If you have heard a typical jazz trio live and unamplified, say composed of a piano, double bass and drum, or anything like that, you'd find that what you are hearing is closer to what ER-4 produces than what W3 produces. You'd hear that the bass doesn't bloom, doesn't sound as loud as the piano, tight, textured, and subtle. Piano doesn't have that "fullness" portrayed in many phones either. Bass deficient? We could tell that to sound boards and EQ, but can we tell that to acoustic instruments? So how do we define what is natural and what is not? I'm afraid the argument would go deeper than where I want to go, and I just want to leave it at that. As for what is enjoyable and what is not, it would be a matter of taste. W3 is enjoyable to me for its warmth it gives me the "fullness" of sound if you like to call it that, it's like a cup of espresso. ER-4 gives me a clarity and intimacy that I find addictive, it's like a cup of nice earl grey. Neither one can do the other's job. As for EQing them so that they sound similar, the EQ on my DAP degrades sound, transparency takes a definite hit. Introducing another variable to eliminate a variable aside, IMHO if one doesn't like how an IEM sound, moving on is the best solution, meddling with EQ would only be the next best. It's much easier and better to make apple juice with apples than with oranges. My point is they are different animals, to fit one into another's mold, you'd naturally find them inferior, because that is just not what they are. They are not for everyone either, but it's not fair to say sushi is cat food because one doesn't like raw fish, there's always burger and curry and a gazillion of others out there.

The best and most sensible post I read to date. I totally agree with you.

 

[tstarn06]

My huh comment was only made because this is a lot of writing to say that W3s (and other similar IEMs) and Etys deliver very different results to the listener. Not sure I understand the original post. Did someone disparage the ER4P? I am not willing to say the ER4P is a mid-level IEM, but when I owned a pair, they did require an amp to deliver the impact I expected for the price (I had the s cable, too). Just seems much ado about nothing. But I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Navyblue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdupiano /img/forum/go_quote.gif But if you really feel that way, I wonder why you would even post about it, knowing in advance that you already made up your mind that theyre different animals.

Sorry, I didn't know that I am not entitled to the right to make a statement. Or do I?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFN /img/forum/go_quote.gif The best and most sensible post I read to date. I totally agree with you.

Thanks.

(I'm in Singapore btw

)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My huh comment was only made because this is a lot of writing to say that W3s (and other similar IEMs) and Etys deliver very different results to the listener...

That is quite a mouthful but I thought I am pretty economical with words considering that I was replying to 10+ posts at once.