[tom hankins]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since my digital setup is complete, I'm now going to try out vinyl. A TT is on its way, and I tried going to a used record store today (Wax n'Facts!). I bought all of their old guitar recordings! I have a couple on CD, so I'll be able to demo those. I also found a Living Stereo of Julian Bream: an issue that's making it to SACD at the end of this month. I can't wait to get the SACD and try comparing vinyl with SACD. SACD will probably be superior technically, but it will be interesting to see how euphonic vinyl could be. I'm mainly going to try getting old out of print stuff that you can't find digitally: that would be the main advantage of vinyl. I'll have to see how bad the snaps and pops can be!

A wet cleaner is a must. When you get one you can knock out about 99% of the pops and noise, even on old and dirty vinyl. Have fun with your table. I'm in norcross, Ga. if you need help.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif A wet cleaner is a must. When you get one you can knock out about 99% of the pops and noise, even on old and dirty vinyl. Have fun with your table. I'm in norcross, Ga. if you need help.

True dat. If you're going to collect used vinyl (which I LOVE doing), a wet-vacuum cleaner is mandatory, and will be a revalation. It makes a lot of records dead quiet.

 

[oicdn]

Simple solution (may have already been suggested)....listen to the same album on both CD and vinyl. I did/do, and now yearn for a better performing analog system....

I threw out all my moms old records a couple years back....now I wish I hadn't, cause I find myself listening to rather crappy music on vinyl, cause it's distinguishable sound is very addictive.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hankins /img/forum/go_quote.gif A wet cleaner is a must. When you get one you can knock out about 99% of the pops and noise, even on old and dirty vinyl. Have fun with your table. I'm in norcross, Ga. if you need help.

Thanks for the tip Tom.....will be looking for a wet cleaner now! One of the records I got was a cheapy that I don't mind getting scratched up. I figure I'll use that one first when setting up/ calibrating the TT. Head-fi is certainly helping me spend money

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since my digital setup is complete, I'm now going to try out vinyl. A TT is on its way, and I tried going to a used record store today (Wax n'Facts!). I bought all of their old guitar recordings! I have a couple on CD, so I'll be able to demo those. I also found a Living Stereo of Julian Bream: an issue that's making it to SACD at the end of this month. I can't wait to get the SACD and try comparing vinyl with SACD. SACD will probably be superior technically, but it will be interesting to see how euphonic vinyl could be. I'm mainly going to try getting old out of print stuff that you can't find digitally: that would be the main advantage of vinyl. I'll have to see how bad the snaps and pops can be!

I thought about you last week. here in Asheville I saw a Wax & Fax sticker on a SC vehicle with an Athens, GA dealer sticker on it. I was wondering if ya had made it down there yet. I wonder if their vinyl collection is as huge as it use to be? I use to freak going in there there was so much good stuff to be had. There use to be another vinyl store on Peach Tree heading into Buckhead. I think the name was Fantasyworld or something like that. it's been so long since I have been there but I remember them having tons of vinyl to be had.

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the tip Tom.....will be looking for a wet cleaner now! One of the records I got was a cheapy that I don't mind getting scratched up. I figure I'll use that one first when setting up/ calibrating the TT. Head-fi is certainly helping me spend money

an anti static brush is good to use too before using a wet cleaner and it's brush. the cleaner is also something that you do not want to use heavily but lightly. there's other wet methods of cleaning as well. you should also get a stylus brush with cleaner for the stylus picks up garbage that you may miss.

too much cleaning can put wear on vinyl. that's a given with anything you clean often in this world.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought about you last week. here in Asheville I saw a Wax & Fax sticker on a SC vehicle with an Athens, GA dealer sticker on it. I was wondering if ya had made it down there yet. I wonder if their vinyl collection is as huge as it use to be? I use to freak going in there there was so much good stuff to be had. There use to be another vinyl store on Peach Tree heading into Buckhead. I think the name was Fantasyworld or something like that. it's been so long since I have been there but I remember them having tons of vinyl to be had.

When I was getting back onto 75, I saw another vinyl store on Spring St......Ear Wax. Going to be checking that out soon! But I made out like a bandit in classical guitar LPs. Also picked up a couple Bruce Springsting and Herbie Han****. Wax n'facts probably hasn't changed: they had a small section of used CDs and tapes, but wall to wall LPs. It was mainly jazz. Classical was very small, but enough guitar to get me started

15LPs......just have to get the TT now! Hope it gets here on Tueday....my B-day. Assume it's still safe to play a LP if I haven't cleaned it with a cleaner right? The brush will mainly clean the dust so there's less pops right?

*edit* Why did they censor Herbie!!!! What if I mentioned the male chicken.....it would be **** too??

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif True dat. If you're going to collect used vinyl (which I LOVE doing), a wet-vacuum cleaner is mandatory, and will be a revalation. It makes a lot of records dead quiet.

very nice to have if ya got the money to spend on such items. or can they be found cheap these days.

this is what kills me on the superiority of vinyl. it takes lots of money for it to be so of which many don't have and didn't have to take care of the vinyl in the first place. most used vinyl you will never find to be treated in such pristine conditions.

 

[noseallinit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I was getting back onto 75, I saw another vinyl store on Spring St......Ear Wax. Going to be checking that out soon! But I made out like a bandit in classical guitar LPs. Also picked up a couple Bruce Springsting and Herbie Han****. Wax n'facts probably hasn't changed: they had a small section of used CDs and tapes, but wall to wall LPs. It was mainly jazz. Classical was very small, but enough guitar to get me started 15LPs......just have to get the TT now! Hope it gets here on Tueday....my B-day. Assume it's still safe to play a LP if I haven't cleaned it with a cleaner right? The brush will mainly clean the dust so there's less pops right? *edit* Why did they censor Herbie!!!! What if I mentioned the male chicken.....it would be **** too??

q:O)>

that sounds just like the Wax & Fax I remember. 3 rooms of vinyl, one large, one small and the rest right across from the front counter. they use to have a large selection of alternative records as well. that was in the small room and across from the front counter. I spent so much time in those areas I rarely made it back to the big room to look.

yes, I would think so. chances are they were never cleaned like some do. just clean it best ya can with the brush and then go out and get ya some record cleaning stuff. check your stylus out and you may want to replace it right off the bat. a bad one can do damage to your vinyl.

there is many alternatives to be had with some methods being much better than others but here is what I use to use together that I could afford. http://www.sleevetown.com/vinyl-cleaning.shtml First the Carbon Fiber Brush to pick up the major stuff. then the DiscWasher D4 System. it comes with a brush to clean the brush and then you use the liquid. we always squirted just a tiny bit of the solution along the brush and then used the bottle to even it out across the brush keeping it from saturating heavily in spots. then lightly brush your vinyl going with the grooves as it spins on the table.

then before playing I also used a stylus brush and cleaner to pick off any crap off the stylus.

maybe not the best methods but as far as I was able to master and afford. I also didn't like continually playing my vinyl over and over so I made cassette recordings of them and then stuck them back in their sleeve, cover, cover sleeve and then into a box to protect and preserve them. then when I needed to make recordings of them again that's usually when I pulled them back out. I did play them from time to time too.

remember that your brush or cloths(whichever you choose to use) get dirty as well so they need to be cleaned or replaced from time to time or your just cleaning with lint, dust, dirt and goobers.

WNCW 88.7 is playing some good stuff tonight. need to be in bed for I will need to be getting up soon.

Happy Birthday!

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Smarter folks than I (rec.audio.opinion) have demonstrated that LP has (at best) due to its lower SNR a resolution of approximately 10 - 11 bits i.e 2 bits shy of being able to reproduce an 85db dynamic range, which even a 1984 Sony CDP101 would manage easily. Prove me wrong with some numbers. LP is woefully inferior to CD in all measurable parameters , that of course does not stop people liking it, preference and superiority are not the same.

interesting analogy but logically flawed, even if your mathematics is correct which it may well be, you are assuming vinyl can be measured in a way which analogises roughly with the way CD is measured which is a nonsense because the way "data" is retrived from the two media, not to mention the "data" itself is completely different.

By your reasoning for instance a larger stylus surface area would = more information being retrieved which is facile and demonstrably untrue if you've ever listened to a turntable.

When CD was released it was measured by the metrics applied to turntables and open reel such as noise floor and speed stability, areas in which it quite obviously betters turntables and open reel cassette.

It is inferior in frequency range but of course in an analogue system frequency range is defined in tandem with noise floor whereas a CD arguably has a superior frequency range within the commonly percieved audible spectrum coupled with a much lower possible noise floor, provided the signal is kept to average levels.

But then other problems were identified with digital recording which are completely alien to analogue recording such as jitter.

All in all there are various theories as to why analogue sounds better to many people but these point more to gaps in our knowledge about how we percieve sound per se and "process" it in our conscious minds (assuming we have such things).

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif very nice to have if ya got the money to spend on such items. or can they be found cheap these days. this is what kills me on the superiority of vinyl. it takes lots of money for it to be so of which many don't have and didn't have to take care of the vinyl in the first place. most used vinyl you will never find to be treated in such pristine conditions.

Vinyl does not have to cost a lot of money, a decent TT, arm and cartridge, under say 500.00 will get you into the realm of good vinyl (with all the upgradius these days, finding a good cheap unit is easy). The part that most people forget is not the cost of the rig, rather how it is set up. To get good to great sound you must spend a lot of your time learning why and how to set the TT up properly. Good sound out of vinyl demands a very well set up TT - arm - cartridge
As for finding good used vinyl...I have purchased hundreds of used albums from garage sales, flee markets, used vinyl stores, private collections, for $5.00 the album must be mint, most are $1.00 or less.... Most have been VG+ to mint. Yes there have been several to lots that are not good enough to keep, I don't recirculate these to others, I recycle
I heard an estimate that there are 5,000,000,000 in circulation, and as most people don't have a TT anymore, a lot still have their vinyl collection.

Vinyl does take a somewhat major investment...your time being the most important

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noseallinit /img/forum/go_quote.gif an anti static brush is good to use too before using a wet cleaner and it's brush. the cleaner is also something that you do not want to use heavily but lightly. there's other wet methods of cleaning as well. you should also get a stylus brush with cleaner for the stylus picks up garbage that you may miss. too much cleaning can put wear on vinyl. that's a given with anything you clean often in this world.

We're talking about 2 different things here. Wet cleaning with something like Discwasher is useless - it just grinds in wet dirt.

When you wet-vacuum deep-clean your records you only have to do this ONCE, ever. Then keep the record in a clean, anti-static sleeve, and just use a light dry brush on it right before playing.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif We're talking about 2 different things here. Wet cleaning with something like Discwasher is useless - it just grinds in wet dirt. When you wet-vacuum deep-clean your records you only have to do this ONCE, ever. Then keep the record in a clean, anti-static sleeve, and just use a light dry brush on it right before playing.

You are forgetting the dust particles that fall on the album during playing (vinyl albums seem to generate a static charge and attract what ever is in the air), as well as the residue and minor cast off from the stylus (have a look at the stylus with a microscope or magnifying glass before and after playing a record), and also any oil from your hands that may have come in contact.
I generally clean my records every 5 to 10 plays because they sound better to me. Some people clean them every time they are played.

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 883dave /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are forgetting the dust particles that fall on the album during playing (vinyl albums seem to generate a static charge and attract what ever is in the air), as well as the residue and minor cast off from the stylus (have a look at the stylus with a microscope or magnifying glass before and after playing a record), and also any oil from your hands that may have come in contact. I generally clean my records every 5 to 10 plays because they sound better to me. Some people clean them every time they are played.

Are you saying you wet-vacuum clean them every 5-10 plays? Unless you're talking about wet-vacuum cleaning, you really can't understand what I'm taking about. It's a whole other level of clean.

here is my routine, works exceptionally well.

1. Wet-vacuum clean record before every playing (whether new or not), using VPI 16.5 with Record Research deep cleaner.

2. Apply LAST record preservative

3. Use Zerostat gun to remove static

4. Put in anti-static sleeve.

Then, when playing the record:

1. Use Onzow Zerodust to remove any dirt from stylus

2. Apply Stylast to protect Stylus

3. Zap record with Zerostat gun again to remove static

4. remove any small amount of surface dust with DRY discwasher brush (but any decent brush will do).

That's it. There is simply no need for me to wet-vacuum clean them again.

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you saying you wet-vacuum clean them every 5-10 plays? Unless you're talking about wet-vacuum cleaning, you really can't understand what I'm taking about. It's a whole other level of clean. here is my routine, works exceptionally well. 1. Wet-vacuum clean record before every playing (whether new or not), using VPI 16.5 with Record Research deep cleaner. 2. Apply LAST record preservative 3. Use Zerostat gun to remove static 4. Put in anti-static sleeve. Then, when playing the record: 1. Use Onzow Zerodust to remove any dirt from stylus 2. Apply Stylast to protect Stylus 3. Zap record with Zerostat gun again to remove static 4. remove any small amount of surface dust with DRY discwasher brush (but any decent brush will do). That's it. There is simply no need for me to wet-vacuum clean them again.

I also use the VPI 16.5...and yes I find a benefit with washing at an interval of 5-10 playings. ( I know people who wash with a wet vacuum system each and every play. They also clean the stylus before each play)

The dust that we can see is not the problem, it is the microdust that can get into the grooves. When the stylus runs over it can imbed it, or drag it causing damage inside the grooves. I have yet to see a brush (I use carbon fibre) that has a diameter small enough to actually get into the grooves.

I believe that unless wet and vacuum washing is preformed to get into the grooves, all dry brushing does is tide the surface. I also never use any product that has protect or preserve in the title, as I feel it may leave a foreign residual that can interfer with proper stylus / vinyl contact.
Just my $2.00 (adjusted for inflation)