[richardloh]

https://www.monoandstereo.com/2020/07/blog-post.html

Hi All,

Never thought of Denafrips Terminator as the king of R2R dac in its separate thread here in Head-fi and this is simply because I had only limited experience with "higher" end DAC and certainly do not even know 10% of available R2R in its price range of usd4000-4500.

Believe this "crowning" here in Head-Fi had also created some interesting but also unnecessary negative comments in various forums on Denafrips Terminator.

Nevertheless the Terminator certainly deposed of my 1st high end dac of Luxman DA06 in double quick time that I had since 2016 which saw it being sent to ebay in Europe some 10 months ago in 2019.

Fast forward into 2020 and despite Denafrips being quoted the below in Audio Bacon's review in Jan 2019, the 10 years was only slightly more than a year in last week that I received my customised silver Denafrips Terminator-Plus / Terminator+ with blue leds:

“The Terminator will be our True Reference Master Class DAC for the next 10 years.”

Truly glad that Denafrips did not get lazy and stopped pushing the envelope of their technical capability with its introduction of new upgraded ocxo clock in the Terminator Plus which imho is a BIG leap in delivered sound quality for all sources and more below on cd playback.

Moreover, the Terminator Plus with its clock output that above www.monostereo's review glaringly missed now matches the nice Denafrip's Philips cdm4 driven Denafrips Avatar with its clock input. It allows me to enter into the coveted synced clock world of esoteric, dCS etc. at a fraction of those costs and not just an upgraded ocxo clock which made my cd playback now an even bigger leap.

Sadly for my pocket, my Jay Audio cdt2 which I had for only 8 months which also lack i2s RJ45 output to both Terminator and Terminator Plus dacs had to go as I already had my Nuprime Omnia S1 into the single hdmi i2s A .. speak of being ignorant is bliss

Looking forward to more sharing of currently limited but no doubt many more new owners of Terminator Plus especially for those with cd collection to get their very reasonably priced Avatar Transport for addition synced clock digital playback.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[richardloh]

Hi,

Din realised already in Denafrips/Vinshine website and just saw bro Mickey's sharing:

https://www.denafrips.com/terminator-plus

Cheers.

Richard

 

[richardloh]

https://6moons.com/newsroom/

Terminator-Plus:

Terminator:

 

[richardloh]

Hi,

While it is usd2k more than the standard Denafrip that I previously owned, the improvement is much more than any upgrade in power cords, interconnects, speaker cables, power regenerator etc. can do for my system.

I had the luxury of having the demo unit for 1 week but it only took the usual warm up of about an hour to know that I wanted it.

In comparison, the standard Terminator sounds veiled which I would have never thought is an adjective to describe it.

Midbass and bass are tighter which makes all genres more tuneful or I dare say more obvious PRAT that makes my system more musical and I feel more of the reported 23hz of my Salon 2 speakers.

Highs and midranges together with midbass and bass notes are easier to be differentiated and simply "pops" ... not sure if due to yet another 3db improvement in the SNR ratio at now 127db from 124db.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[newtophones07]

A $1,900 USD jump seems a bit much for a upgraded clock and better resistors. I wonder if the original can be upgrade for a fee, if one was willing to mail it back for servicing. I still think that warranty should be 5 years at least, for $4-6,000 gear. Man this hobby is killing my pocket, year after year lol

 

[BlakeT]

Denafrips is really on a roll here, lots of new product in a very short time frame. I was surprised when I first heard about the Plus version a few months ago as I figured it would be some time before they replaced the flagship Terminator, but hey, you can't stop progress!

 

[richardloh]

A $1,900 USD jump seems a bit much for a upgraded clock and better resistors. I wonder if the original can be upgrade for a fee, if one was willing to mail it back for servicing. I still think that warranty should be 5 years at least, for $4-6,000 gear. Man this hobby is killing my pocket, year after year lol

Hi newtophones,

It is totally different pcba and components and there is obviously no chance of an upgrade which I had also wished.

Indeed hurting at usd1.9k for me especially my standard Terminator is quite new having joined the Denafrips family late into the game of Denafrips Terminator which started in end 2016 and frankly was hoping for marginal difference to stay happy with it but still glad to have the option and took it.

For new owners of the Terminator Plus, this usd1900 difference will get you nowhere near to the Terminator Plus if similarly spent on power supply, cabling and many blackart tweaks which can be much more .. you simply cannot beat technology and equipment hardware changes.

The synced clocking with compatible sources is also notable and not to be missed.

On having 5 yrs warranty, I doubt any such validity period .. my Nuprime Omnia S1 and others components are usually 1 yr only vs the 3 yrs provided by Denafrips.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[richardloh]

Denafrips is really on a roll here, lots of new product in a very short time frame. I was surprised when I first heard about the Plus version a few months ago as I figured it would be some time before they replaced the flagship Terminator, but hey, you can't stop progress!

Hi Blake,

Hard to say never never ... late into the game with barely 10 mths of ownership of the standard Terminator but still glad that Denafrips offered the option that we each have to make on such obvious upgraded sound quality.

“The Terminator will be our True Reference Master Class DAC for the next 10 years.”

As mentioned even Denafrips had thought and/or quoted that the standard Terminator was to be their flagship for next 10 yrs which on the hindsight cannot be true with all the recent dac technological advances still being made.

Cheers.

Richard

 

[BlakeT]

The interesting comparison would be Terminator+Gaia vs. Terminator Plus. The Gaia is about the same price as the price differential between the Terminator and Terminator Plus.

 

[richardloh]

The interesting comparison would be Terminator+Gaia vs. Terminator Plus. The Gaia is about the same price as the price differential between

 

[richardloh]

Hi Blake,

Indeed and I was also hoping to have other limited sources e.g. Bel Canto FM-1 Tuner via the Gaia even with the Terminator Plus to benefit from the reclocked to ocxo specification.

However, I noted the following disadvantages for just adding the Gaia to the standard Terminator and not sure if they make sense:

1. No chance for subjectively 30% ups in sound quality via coveted synced clock setup with cost effective Denafrips Avator for those who still spins the silver discs ... into the relms of esotetic, dCS etc. on the cheap
2. Seemingly inferior ocxo clocks in the Gaia from the photos of the exposed internals vs sealed clocks and more elaborate looking psu electronics for the Terminator Plus though Denafrip did not offer the specification of the ocxo clocks in both
3. Noted improved already published specification on SNR and Dynamic Range of the Terminator Plus as compared to unknown but not better of having Gaia+standard Terminator
4. More headache on additional powercord and interconnects since what are good enough or another usd1.5k I am using Zonotone Shupreme powercord, various Neotech silver digital cables etc. ?
5. Additional space requirement and usual cabling layout consideration ... I still have my boxed Garrard 301 with SME3012R under my bed due to lack of space
6. Lower DSD sampling rate via USB input of Gaia at 512 vs 1024 dual AES option at mentioned SNR and Dynamic Range of Terminator Plus

Only advantages with the Gaia to be added to the standard Terminator for me is that I will end up with more inputs and input types that I will not need and may be slightly lower cost with consideration to #3

In summary, I decided not to do so and sold my standard Terminator asap which also means I cannot test it out even if I have the Gaia now and need some owners of the standard Terminator to help advise.

Cheers.

Richard

GAIA:

Terminator Plus:

 

[BlakeT]

Only advantages with the Gaia to be added to the standard Terminator for me is that I will end up with more inputs and input types that I will not need and may be slightly lower cost with consideration to #3

In summary, I decided not to do so and sold my standard Terminator asap which also means I cannot test it out even if I have the Gaia now and need some owners of the standard Terminator to help advise.

Hi Richard, I wouldn't be so quick to come to that conclusion based on spec sheets and photos. I am sure we will eventually have some members that can try the Terminator+Gaia vs. Terminator Plus and give us some feedback and eventually develop some consensus.

Just pure, wild speculation on my part after experimenting myself with quite a few DAC + D/D combos and reading lots of professional reviews on D/D converters, but I have a hunch which option would come out on top.. We shall see. Of course, if money is not an issue Terminator Plus + Gaia would almost certainly trump all.

 

[richardloh]

Hi Richard, I wouldn't be so quick to come to that conclusion based on spec sheets and photos. I am sure we will eventually have some members that can try the Terminator+Gaia vs. Terminator Plus and give us some feedback and eventually develop some consensus.

Just pure, wild speculation on my part after experimenting myself with quite a few DAC + D/D combos and reading lots of professional reviews on D/D converters, but I have a hunch which option would come out on top.. We shall see. Of course, if money is not an issue Terminator Plus + Gaia would almost certainly trump all.

Hi Blake,

Just checked with the next potential buyer of the Terminator Plus who has the gaia but the gaia was somehow spoilt by his friend when loaned out and received back while the demo Terminator Plus is scheduled to be delivered to next potential buyer today.

Indeed speculation on my part from spec and look as mentioned on lesser sound quality of the standard Terminator + gaia vs Terminator Plus but I believe it is "reasonable". This is especially in view of final digital to analog conversion being in both Terminator versions and not in the ddc of gaia where "reasonably" assumed lesser quality timing of the oxco clock in the gaia is still only for digital to digital change in format or reclocking and not the final analog signal that we need downstream.

Money unfortunately is always a problem even just to be saved for other needs or future needs but mentioned usd1.5k gaia and say even if usd1k for powercord and digital cable make it no sense for new owners to buy the standard Terminator and gaia and believe "unreasonably" that they will better the Terminator Plus .. it is simply more costly for me to do so at say usd4k+1.5k+1k or usd6.5k vs usd6.3k.

The "issue" or decision is for current owners of standard Terminator which was the same situation like I was when considering upgrade with gaia only. This depends on how much they can sell it used for vs how long they had already owned for $/mth or year usage. In my case, it was a usd1.5k for 10 mths "loss" which is indeed a big chunk of $ or usd3.5k spent for the upgrade to the Terminator Plus vs usd2.5k if I had proceeded with only the gaia, powercord and the digital cables which you need more than one to be enrouted via the gaia ... grand difference of usd1k.

Hope my maths holds up but I am more than ok with usd1k for earlier mentioned advantages 1. to 6 but most importantly, the big improvement in sound quality that I am experiencing

Hope this helps existing owners of standard Terminator IF they are looking at available option to upgrade and for new buyers into both versions of Terminator without and without gaia.

Cheers.

Richard

PS: If Denafrips/Vineshine has listed usd7.3, I may still have made same decision for the Terminator Plus and simply sell or 2 of my Zonotone Shupreme powercord to kettle powercord for "reasonably" expected improved sound quality and synced clocking option

 

[johnzz4]

Just waiting on Gaia to mate up with the Terminator Plus. Not sure if we can squeeze a little more out of the plus with it. Time will tell. The cleanliness and smoothness of the treble in particular on the plus is really something.

 

[richardloh]

Just waiting on Gaia to mate up with the Terminator Plus. Not sure if we can squeeze a little more out of the plus with it. Time will tell. The cleanliness and smoothness of the treble in particular on the plus is really something.

Hi John,

Nice and please keep us updated.

I had asked for demo gaia to hope notable improvement of my most used Bel Canto fm1 tuner from reclocking by and sync to Terminator Plus' ocxo clock but do have concern on added $, longer route of fm1->gaia->TP vs current fm1->TP. Another usd2.5 that I doubt that I will spend unless there is marked improvement.

Btw, are you still spinning the silver discs and got the Avatar ? Perhaps bias but with the reasonably priced Avator in addition to the GAIA, Denafrips Terminator Plus is really setting a benchmark for some winning combo.

Yes, I am also unshamingly bias to i2S connectivity and synced clocking (beyond just improved internal clock) for sound quality especially if transport is not already with sound decent oxco.

Cheers.

Richard