[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not quite sure what a MM phono preamp is. Sorry can you explain. Thanks

Cartridges come in moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) configurations. There are a few other ways of getting sound from a stylus, but these are the most common ways.

Moving magnets, generally, have a much higher output than does a moving coil. Because MC has a low output (there are exceptions, though), you need either a phono stage that steps up a low input or a pair of transformers that step up the low output for a MM phono stage.

Your receiver might be capable of handling MC cartridges, but it should have no trouble with an MM.

Whether MM or MC is better is up for debate. MC has been fashionable in the high end for some time, but there are some excellent MM cartridges out there, too.

 

[Redo]

I recently bought an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge, it's worth checking out.

 

[inthecup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cartridges come in moving magnet (MM) or moving coil (MC) configurations. There are a few other ways of getting sound from a stylus, but these are the most common ways. Moving magnets, generally, have a much higher output than does a moving coil. Because MC has a low output (there are exceptions, though), you need either a phono stage that steps up a low input or a pair of transformers that step up the low output for a MM phono stage. Your receiver might be capable of handling MC cartridges, but it should have no trouble with an MM. Whether MM or MC is better is up for debate. MC has been fashionable in the high end for some time, but there are some excellent MM cartridges out there, too.

That's for the info UE, so much to learn, so little time....

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif I plan on using a MM cartridge along with my Denon 2805, is there a difference in sound if I get a phono preamp and use a MC cartridge.

If you are going to blow 1000USD on a deck then I'd also get a better phonostage. Someting like the Cambridge Audio 640P which is very good value for money, will sound much better than the kind of phonostage fitted to a home cinema amp and will allow you to run any type of cart with the added benefit of variable loading for MC.

 

[inthecup]

Thanks Mp, thats what I was looking for better sound for the $$$. I just didn't want to spend more $$$ with little results. The Cambridge seem very affordable, can you recommend a MC to go along with that setup.

 

[memepool]

It depends on the tonearm really. If you are sticking with the SL1200 in stock form then the Denon 103 is the favourite, but if you are upgrading the arm to a Rega and want an MC then I would go for something like an Audio Technica 0C9 or better still the Dynavector 10X.

A little more expensive but not everyone agrees that the old school Denons really work properly on the Rega arms without additional headshell ballast etc. which is a bit fiddly for my liking.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks Mp, thats what I was looking for better sound for the $$$. I just didn't want to spend more $$$ with little results. The Cambridge seem very affordable, can you recommend a MC to go along with that setup.

The low output moving coil Denon DL-103 cartridge will match the Technics 1200 tonearm and sound fine through your Cambridge Audio 640P. I believe William Thakker of William's Stylus Shop on ebay carries this cartridge.

 

[lini]

itc: Nothing against a nice Technics 12x0Mky, but just as another option: If you regret selling your old Dual, why not get another nice Dual model on the used market? A good to very good Dual model should cost you some US$ 100 - 200 in good condition. Often enough these thingies also come with decent cartridges (especially the upper class models), for most of which original replacement needles are still easily available...

Oh, and what's the rest of the system? You've mentioned the Denon receiver, but what about the speakers, for example?

In addition, as you call yourself an "old guy": Old guys often have preferences. So be aware that the Technics would be a fully manual turntable without any automatic functions. If you'd love stuff like auto-stop/-return, auto-start via button, automatic speed/size detection et cetera, an SL12x0Mky wouldn't be the right table for you...

Not intending to spoil your plans, btw - just want to provide some food for thought, before you spend a couple of hundred bucks...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[inthecup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini /img/forum/go_quote.gif itc: Nothing against a nice Technics 12x0Mky, but just as another option: If you regret selling your old Dual, why not get another nice Dual model on the used market? A good to very good Dual model should cost you some US$ 100 - 200 in good condition. Often enough these thingies also come with decent cartridges (especially the upper class models), for most of which original replacement needles are still easily available... Oh, and what's the rest of the system? You've mentioned the Denon receiver, but what about the speakers, for example? In addition, as you call yourself an "old guy": Old guys often have preferences. So be aware that the Technics would be a fully manual turntable without any automatic functions. If you'd love stuff like auto-stop/-return, auto-start via button, automatic speed/size detection et cetera, an SL12x0Mky wouldn't be the right table for you... Not intending to spoil your plans, btw - just want to provide some food for thought, before you spend a couple of hundred bucks... Greetings from Munich! Manfred / lini

My dual was manual also and it seems like the SL1200 is the way to go, I've been thinking about the KAB fluid damper upgrade, because I am an old guy I really don't want to be taking things apart. Would that be worth the cost ($149) to upgrade the stock tonearm. Of course that would be along with the Cambridge Audio 64P.

 

[golgi]

A couple years ago, after listening to my parents old pioneer turntable after a decade, I decided to really get back to vinyl. I did a lot of reading on vinyl asylum, vinyl engine, and here. After reading very favorable comments about the Technics SL12xx, Denon DL-160, and Cambridge Audio 640P combo, I decided to get exactly that. I've been listening to this combo for well over a year now and have absolutely no complaints. This is an excellent setup that is fairly easy to setup. Best of all you can do some upgrades as you feel necessary down the road.

 

[inthecup]

I'll be running my new vinyl rig thru my Denon 2805(future upgrade to Denon 3808ci) and B&W 604s. These are the 2 vinyl rigs it's come down to.

#1 Stock Technics SL1200MK2, Shure MX97E or Denon DL-160. $500-$550

#2 Technics SL1200MK2 w/KAB tonearm fluid damper upgrade, Cambridge Audio 640P phono preamp, Denon DL-103. $1000

Am I getting a big upgrade for twice the cost? Any other suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks again for everyone's help.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I getting a big upgrade for twice the cost? Any other suggestions will be welcomed. Thanks again for everyone's help.

Definitely. The jury is still out on the Kab silicon bath, to my mind anyway ( see this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/who...-1200s-335839/)

But the tonearm is definitely the weakest link on the deck. The main problem with it is the headshell coupling which causes the arm to flex causing distortion, followed by the counterweight which vibrates on it's mounting.

KAB and other companies like Origin Live have put a lot of effort into making aftermarket upgrades to address this because otherwise the SL1200 is such a fine deck.

Anyway it's not going to mar your enjoyment too much in use rather it's just that tonearm design has moved on since the 1970s and a modern turntable you buy today will have a much better designed tonearm resulting in cleaner sound. Maybe you should go and listen to some at a Hi-Fi store to decide for yourself what kind of price you want to pay before parting with any money.

 

[inthecup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif Definitely. The jury is still out on the Kab silicon bath, to my mind anyway ( see this thread http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/who...-1200s-335839/) But the tonearm is definitely the weakest link on the deck. The main problem with it is the headshell coupling which causes the arm to flex causing distortion, followed by the counterweight which vibrates on it's mounting. KAB and other companies like Origin Live have put a lot of effort into making aftermarket upgrades to address this because otherwise the SL1200 is such a fine deck. Anyway it's not going to mar your enjoyment too much in use rather it's just that tonearm design has moved on since the 1970s and a modern turntable you buy today will have a much better designed tonearm resulting in cleaner sound. Maybe you should go and listen to some at a Hi-Fi store to decide for yourself what kind of price you want to pay before parting with any money.

Without the KAB upgrade would it still be worth the cost and benefit of the Denon DL-103.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by inthecup /img/forum/go_quote.gif Without the KAB upgrade would it still be worth the cost and benefit of the Denon DL-103.

Yes absolutely it's a tried and trusted pro design which has been in production since before the 1200 even and perfectly suits the Technics in stock form. Also the Denon is actually bargain basement for a moving coil cart these days and you can get them brand new from William Thakker's shop on ebay for 175USD including shipping

ORIGINAL Denon DL 103 MC cartridge DL103 *BRAND NEW* - eBay (item 150266221263 end time Jul-12-08 06:13:12 PDT)

 

[inthecup]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes absolutely it's a tried and trusted pro design which has been in production since before the 1200 even and perfectly suits the Technics in stock form. Also the Denon is actually bargain basement for a moving coil cart these days and you can get them brand new from William Thakker's shop on ebay for 175USD including shipping ORIGINAL Denon DL 103 MC cartridge DL103 *BRAND NEW* - eBay (item 150266221263 end time Jul-12-08 06:13:12 PDT)

Thanks so much for the help MP, I've heard from other vinyl threads that you are the guy to talk to, and indeed you have helped me along the way. I just may bypass the KAB upgrade and go stock along with the 640P aand DL-103. I can save $150 and it seems like I'll have a pretty decent rig.