[EdT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sennheiser cans are made at an extremely high-end factory in Ireland, not in China.

Hmmm, the 515 and 555 I see at the chain stores are all made in China, maybe it is just the 600 and up that are "assembled" in Ireland. So far I haven't been impressed with any high-end audio manfacturers' plants.

Robert Follis, PR Guru for Sennheiser, gives us a world premier demonstration of the new model, the Sennheiser PXC 450
http://uk.cinenow.tv/videos/691-bris...ion-headphones

Senns at a trade show:
http://uk.cinenow.tv/videos/954-senn...tions-ifa-2007

I would not want to pay the prices that Senn is charging, not that it is not a good product, but they are cashing in as if the product was made in Germany. On the other hand, I am hesistant if I want to pay Grado's prices just because it is a small operation that doesn't seem to want to invest in modernizing their business !

Can you spot what is wrong with these plants ?:

http://uk.cinenow.tv/videos/324
http://uk.cinenow.tv/videos/314

 

[Chu]

About the hispanic women, the stereotype is that hispanic labour is dirt cheap, and mostly illegal. I think that's what people were more getting at. We really don't know from the pictures, but from all our experiences we know that is more likely then not

That being said, I've worked at a place where I had to work through a weird which took a fairly standard el-gammal EC based encryption algorithm and started applying transformations to it that went way over my head. The local expert was a heavyset black lady in her late 40's who looked completely out of place. She blew my mind. So, yeah, stereotypes . . .

As for the factory conditions, it's interesting seeing people's reactions. I think when most people envision a production lab one of the words that might come to mind is "sterile." This looks downright homely. I personally like it, and really wouldn't mind working in a setup like that. I've worked in some state of the art facilities that while looked great had some dreadful usability issues. When I need to start breaking apart equipment just give me a good 30" folding table and I'm happy. A lot of the custom built solutions are dreadful to actually use.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drag0n /img/forum/go_quote.gif Theyre not slaves being whipped in that factory. Everyones actually very happy and family oriented from what i have heard about that place. If you cant tell what kind of place the headphones are made at by looking at the headphones,then....WHO CARES??? Would you be happier if the headphones were made in a hospital lab type of room with german or swedish men in lab coats, rather than hispanic women in their comfy street clothes on a wood table? The factory is functional and its been working for years and i dont think they are complaining. I dont care where they are made,as long as they sound good,are comfortable,dont fall apart,and the price is right. I didnt see Kathy Lee Gifford in any pictures,so i dont think its a sweatshop,and if it was then im sure Oprah or Montel would have made a show about it already. Maybe we can send in Heraldo Rivera to investigate and do a report about this? Im sure its fine and the 700 Club is sending food and supplies as we speak. As long as it gives Jerry's Kids a job, Why complain? I think people are taking all this way too far,and if those pictures cause you not to buy Grado headphones, then youre just plain ignorant. Personally i think the hand-made thing makes Grados a little bit more personal and special. Its the American way..........unless you come from the camp that believes large corporations that cause little family-owned "Mom and Pop" shops to CLOSE , the American Way? One bit of proof that John Grado isnt a slave-driver is that woman is wearing another companies ear buds in the picture,instead of having to wear Grados on the job. Some companies wont allow competing products on the job. As soon as i can get the plastic R/L plastic things on the RS1 replaced with metal ones, im buying some!

x2 - i mean why do some people want to change grado from grado into not grado.

thats what they are, thats their heritage, thats the gig.

i put it to the ppl who say they will never buy grado now, had no intention of buying grado anyway. just using for melodramatic effect.

and ppl here need to get over themselves with this high and mighty, snooty attitude, you are condescending to grado workers, i wouldnt mind telling my mates i worked for grado! - suddenly its being thought of as a workden with harsh conditions, gee whizz. ill trade that job for many i have had.

they are working in a dusty old fashioned workshop, allowed to listen to there portable music whilst working, and making some great cans! - yesss please.

do we have to have everything in this world corporate, clinical, and with atrociously large factories blotting out the landscape?

how very boring.

long live traditional craftsmanship!

 

[gritzcolin]

At least they are made in the US...... Would be nicer if Americans were making them. I can 99% garauntee that they aren't true american citizens as Americans of hispanic descent don't work for less than white or black Americans. Basically what I am saying is it would be like most audiophiles dream to get a job for a company like that sadly we will never even get our foot in the door.

Kind of defeats the whole made in America thing huh. Just my opinion anyway. I have a feeling this thread will be locked very soon with all this crazy non headphone talk!

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drag0n /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dont care where they are made,as long as they sound good,are comfortable,dont fall apart,and the price is right.

I probably wouldn't too, except that Grados are opposite of comfortable, fall apart, and overpriced.
They do sound okay, but definitely not the top of the world to cope with all that. Tangling cable, aching ears, and driver that died within the first week, was my Grados experience.

 

[BigStig]

My opinion is that their shop looks about as I expected it to. Did anyone actually expect their 'factory' to be some huge, gleaming steel and glass architectural masterpiece perched atop a green hill? I sure didn't. It's a small, family-run business. Quite frequently this is exactly what they look like. Frankly I'd rather some old guy that looks like my grandfather and a latino woman putting together my headphones in a dusty apartment in Brooklyn than worker #145328-A on assembly line C in Shengzou, China.

And as to those that are up in arms about the apparently latino workers...

There is zero proof that these are illegal immigrants, and my opinion is that it's borderline racism to assume they are. The fact is that these headphones are made in the US, by regular people who earn an honest living, have families, and spend their money on US goods and services. That is the important thing to keep in mind. Even if you want to assume that they're sending money 'home' to some other country, at least part of the money they're making stays in the US, and that's better for the economy than sending the money overseas to start with, regardless of the color of the person who's doing the work.

 

[Televator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least they are made in the US...... Would be nicer if Americans were making them. I can 99% garauntee that they aren't true american citizens as Americans of hispanic descent don't work for less than white or black Americans. Basically what I am saying is it would be like most audiophiles dream to get a job for a company like that sadly we will never even get our foot in the door. Kind of defeats the whole made in America thing huh. Just my opinion anyway. I have a feeling this thread will be locked very soon with all this crazy non headphone talk!

wow, what latent racism! Sorry to sound harsh, but what a load of ****

I mean, if the person doing the assembly is decently trained to do the assembly (which I would assume) what in earth does their nationality have to do with it? Or is everything made in America by purebred Americans better nonetheless? Then why was/is 'made in Japan' so popular? I'm sorry to say that I have lots of difficulties with most of those generalizations.

Or did you intend to say that seeing one (assumed) hispanic person without doubt means that 1) the person is illegal 2) not really American ,well, what does that mean in a continent full of immigrants (... unless you yourself are native-American and that's what you meant?) 3) the working circumstances are 3rd world country sweatshop level...

My uncle (hand)builds fireplaces, ovens and barbecues in cast iron. Believe me, his workplace does look dirty and old and ragged and everything you like, but his products last several lifetimes and are beautiful pieces of art (and there's a lot of electronics involved as he does remote controlled gas ovens and fireplaces as well so don't give me any excuse that headphones are a different thing than fireplaces)

Do you really think being a Grado-worker would earns less than most (comparable) jobs? Do you really think Grado would allow photo-tours of their premises if they were employing illegal immigrants? Would they allow the posting of a pic including one of those illegal workers? Do you really think it would be 'any audiophile's dream' assembling grados (not designing or testing or anything, but mindlessly assembling)? Are you on drugs? I really hope that this is really only (as in 'of you alone') your opinion but I'm afraid lots of ppl are this blind(ed)

Sure this thread will be locked pretty soon... as ignorant ppl keep spewing latent racist remarks in stead of thinking before they post.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by monolith /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's kind of neat to see a crappy cardboard box filled with the drivers to make eight pairs of GS-1000s.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. It's no wonder people have so many problems with them. Piling them up on top of eachother in huge heaps is not exactly what I would think a major headphone brand would do. Not a very ideal way to treat headphones. These photos are doing Grado a great disservice, imo.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sweet Spot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm.... What's in her ears ? Oh teh irony ! (kind of look like the sony ones that came with my Sony Ericsson phone)

As if I thought the cardboard box pile wasn't bad PR enough, THIS is really bad PR! Working at the Grado factory wearing cheap IEMS, hysterical!!!

This is too funny, and sadly, it doesn't say much about the comfort of Grados.

 

[Televator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif As if I thought the cardboard box pile wasn't bad PR enough, THIS is really bad PR! Working at the Grado factory wearing cheap IEMS, hysterical!!! This is too funny, and sadly, it doesn't say much about the comfort of Grados.

or it could mean that they are allowed to make/take phone calls during work hours... as those look exactly like the earbuds from the handsfree set that came with my Sony-Ericsson K710i (and the tangle of wire at chest-height looks remarkably like the badly designed clip/mic)

For your info, the buds can't be switched on that model (unlike with the W810i I now have) so she couldn't be using it with grados even if she wanted

... not only is everyone here reading way too much in those pics, they are unfortunately not that good at reading either

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Grado's facilities make Shan Ling's(makes high end Chinese CD Transports) plants in China look like 5 star hotels ! I would suspect all of Senns cans are made at similar facilities in China. So who ever thinks China is a 3rd world country working in sweat shops better wake up ! Photos of their plant here: http://www.charismaaudio.com/factory.html

Meier Audio uses Shanling to manufacture their amps. In this picture, you can see the resemblance of these CD players to the current Meier Audio line.

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Televator /img/forum/go_quote.gif or it could mean that they are allowed to make/take phone calls during work hours... as those look exactly like the earbuds from the handsfree set that came with my Sony-Ericsson K710i (and the tangle of wire at chest-height looks remarkably like the badly designed clip/mic) For your info, the buds can't be switched on that model (unlike with the W810i I now have) so she couldn't be using it with grados even if she wanted ... not only is everyone here reading way too much in those pics, they are unfortunately not that good at reading either

Okay, well this isn't a debate over semantics. The point is that it doesn't look very good for an employee to be wearing another manufacturer's earphones when working in a headphone manufacturing facility.

 

[Quaddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Televator /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, what latent racism!

that is not racism, thats called having an opinion on something that happens to involve the mention of blacks, whites, hispanics etc

NOT racism

dont censor normal talk with the race card.

for example where i live there are masses of polish people coming in, its a fact that they are taking up a lot of the local jobs, i know as i am trying to get a job and know first hand how hard it is.

that doesnt mean i am racist. i have polish cousins and wish no ill speak of them, it just happens to be the case that it would be nice if locals could get local jobs!!!!

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gritzcolin /img/forum/go_quote.gif At least they are made in the US...... Would be nicer if Americans were making them. I can 99% garauntee that they aren't true american citizens as Americans of hispanic descent don't work for less than white or black Americans. Basically what I am saying is it would be like most audiophiles dream to get a job for a company like that sadly we will never even get our foot in the door. Kind of defeats the whole made in America thing huh. Just my opinion anyway. I have a feeling this thread will be locked very soon with all this crazy non headphone talk!

That's a horribly racist comment, and I can't frankly believe you said it. I suppose you know for a fact that these workers aren't American? Some audiophiles must think their pristine "white" ears are the only ones that can hear the music.

Pathetic.

 

[Televator]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif that is not racism, thats called having an opinion on something that happens to involve the mention of blacks, whites, hispanics etc NOT racism dont censor normal talk with the race card. for example where i live there are masses of polish people coming in, its a fact that they are taking up a lot of the local jobs, i know as i am trying to get a job and know first hand how hard it is. that doesnt mean i am racist. i have polish cousins and wish no ill speak of them, it just happens to be the case that it would be nice if locals could get local jobs!!!!

what you say here isn't racist though it might be (partly) incorrect as stealing jobs by foreigners is often quoted here in Belgium as well, but still, there are a lot of jobs open even though we have lots of jobless Belgians (who often think they are too good for the job in question or will earn only slightly less by not working at all)

what gritzcolin said was borderline racist, as he assumed (with 99% certainty) that seeing a pic of a hispanic woman working it meant that she was illegal and had stolen an audiophile's dreamjob by working under the minimum wage and even worse, that this automatically lowered the value of the (no longer really) American made product... now that I do call being (implicitly) racist.

It is as if I, while eating out, caught a glimpse of the restaurant's cook with slightly darker skin and black hair and assumed it must be an illegal immigrant working under minimum wage and sending back my food as he had tainted it... I could (and should) get sued for that in Belgium!