[xanlamin]

LOL! The last sentence is a legend!

I agree. Josh Velour is a joke…like DMS, Z and Resolve...but I happen to agree with him on this. I also think the Clear is the better headphone as it is better balanced without the murderous treble.
These youtubers are nothing more than youngsters trying to make a name for themselves via audio. The real problem though is that they’ve garnered their ‘wisdom’ through manufacturers and their sales-pitches as well as from old school audiophiles that believe in unicorns and pixie dust.
Basically the equivalent to absolutely loving food…then deciding to become a chef…but learning the profession and skills from a filet-o-fish dude down at McDonalds.

 

[askeladden]

filet-o-fish.

This is the only thing i order at Mickey D's. Don't talk carp about the filet-o-fish dude(ette)!

 

[jlbb]

I agree. Josh Velour is a joke…like DMS, Z and Resolve...but I happen to agree with him on this. I also think the Clear is the better headphone as it is better balanced without the murderous treble.
These youtubers are nothing more than youngsters trying to make a name for themselves via audio. The real problem though is that they’ve garnered their ‘wisdom’ through manufacturers and their sales-pitches as well as from old school audiophiles that believe in unicorns and pixie dust.
Basically the equivalent to absolutely loving food…then deciding to become a chef…but learning the profession and skills from a filet-o-fish dude down at McDonalds.

Factor in EQ to the 800s and the clear isn't even in the same universe. A more balanced headphone in terms of tuning? Sure. But who cares when with a competent digital EQ to edit the lack of bass extension and treble peak it sounds massively more resolving across the spectrum and still retains the most impressive 3D quality and width of soundstage of any headphone on the market. Maybe could see someone finding the imaging less realistic than the Clear's but that's in the real of personal preference when considering the 800s soundstage. Not to mention people tend to understate the comfort levels of the 800s probably because it simply melts away on the head to the point it is hardly noticeable.

In regards to Youtube reviewers, I personally find Josh to be fairly likeable regardless but your analysis of these types is accurate.

 

[jasswolf]

Joshua Valour is a joke, he ranked Focal Clear as 'S' grade headphones and Sennheiser HD800S as 'B' grade, and he said Clear is much better than HD800S on sound.

That's a comparison on value for money and all-round capability, isn't it?

I don't like him, Zeos, or DMS either from a content perspective, but Clear vs 800S in that hypothetical scenario makes sense.

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

Yes, it's a tier list of value for money. In that regard it makes sense as the 800s at the time he made this video was at normal price of $1600.

 

[SilverEars]

Joshua Valour is a joke, he ranked Focal Clear as 'S' grade headphones and Sennheiser HD800S as 'B' grade, and he said Clear is much better than HD800S on sound.

Out of any amp, I'd rank Clear higher than 800 or S. Clear is better tuned in general, and the imaging is clearly better. 800 or S has has stretched sound stage and more of 2D-ish imaging, and I don't care for it other than specific tube amps. It's the treble on the 800 that I could not get used to (out of any ordinary amp), unless tubes mutes it and brings some decent bass level.

I really didn't care for Abyss Phi for tonal response either. Midrange isn't good. Especially at that outrageous price.

And I'm referring to OG Clear.

 

[descloud]

Joshua Valour is a joke, he ranked Focal Clear as 'S' grade headphones and Sennheiser HD800S as 'B' grade, and he said Clear is much better than HD800S on sound.

If Josh ranking the Clear higher than the HD800S pokes your belly, then you probably think the same for Crin because he ranks the Clear A+ while the HD800/S is in B+ tier. While I don't quite like Josh Valour, I would agree in his decision to put the Clear (OG) higher than the HD800/S if it were comparing overall value and sound quality. Given the price of an OG Clear is < $1k, that's where I would place the right price for its qualities.

The OG Clear's tonality is better balanced than the HD800/S, I don't think it is arguable at this point. Focal also has the upper-hand in dynamics. The HD800 has its raw detail, unique head stage and excellent comfort as it's counter-punch and it's down to personal preference and tolerances if EQ were not a factor. Despite the above arguments, I stuck with an SDR modded HD800 over the Clear - but I wouldn't argue with someone if they say the Clear has a better tonality than the HD800 in stock form.

After watching Josh's videos for a while, I am still unclear on what his preference are and his descriptions are inconsistent so I stopped watching. I can't make out the tonality of a headphone from how he describes sound signatures. The best thing he got going for his videos are high production quality, but subjective impressions aren't helpful from the ones he's reviewed that I owned.

Hence, try before you buy is still the best way of selecting your gear.

 

[feifan]

Here’s a question that may seem obvious but I don’t think I’ve ever really seen answered.

Why is there such a wide difference in price between these headphones?

Drop sells a 6XX for $220 and an 8XX for $1100. That’s literally five times the price. Why such a huge differential? Does it cost five times more to build? Was R&D an order of magnitude more expensive? Or is this more of an ostentatious good type of thing, where the price is simply that much higher as a sort of artificial price differentiation to create a sort of halo effect around the truly high end?

This sort of applies across the headphone world. I mean, I can understand when you have a small company like Abyss, they need to charge a lot because they use high quality machined materials and they don’t have an economy of scale, meaning their marginal costs are very high.

But Sennheiser is a large company with a large supply chain. The 6XX seems like a pretty well made product already, so as someone who hasn’t spent much time at all with the 8 series, how is it possible that they are 5+ times as expensive? That’s a massive difference.

Good question. I've heard variations of this question before. I think it boils down to listener expertise. At some point, some listeners transform into audiophiles. What's the difference? It's probably easier to show than to explain. Your 6XX vs 8XX is a solid starting point.

I own neither the 6XX nor the 8XX, but I do own the original 600, 650, and 800 (minus the S). I have an 8XX on order. It was supposed to arrive in early Oct but the ETA is now mid-Oct. But I think I can still answer your question based on these three Senns.

Of the three, I like the 600 for single-ended use and the 650 for balanced. The additional 6-to-10 dB gain via balanced clears up the veil in the 650. The balanced 650 is best with rock and tubes.

The 800 is more like the 600, but its smoother with a vast soundstage, accurate imaging, consistent placement, and textured dynamics across the full response curve. In comparison, the 600 is more intimate, more up front, as though you're in a small studio rather than a vast auditorium. They're best with solid-state rigs. The 800 is equally effective single-ended or balanced, but I prefer it balanced.

The 800 is analytical. It's for serious listening to pick up all the nuances of a recording. The better the recording, the better the experience. GIGO. It's for those who want to hear bass that's clear and punchy rather than bone-rattling loud. The same goes for mids and highs, with clarity and accuracy the main criteria.

The point here is that there's a dfference between anaytical and enjoyable listening. I think most audiophiles straddle both worlds and have rigs for both. Analytical has its own enjoyment, but it may be too intense for relaxed and enjoyable listening.

Is it worth the additional cost to be able to deep dive into your favorite recordings? For some, it is. The 800's accuracy and clarity are worth the price. For others, enjoyment is the goal, and the additional cost is not worth the increased accuracy.

I'm guessing that EQing an 800-series headphone runs counter to its strength or original design. It's like customizing a violin so it'll sound more like an electric guitar. Why not just buy and electric guitar? The same goes for using the 800-series with tubes. Tubes are warm and rich, but they're not analytical. The 800 is out of its element in tubes.

I'm getting the 8XX to see if it can bridge the gap between analytical and enjoyable. I think many others are doing the same. I won't know until I have it on my head. If it succeeds, it's a keeper.

 

[tkddans]

Impressions out! Not so bad honestly, but maybe not the 800 flavor we’ve come to love (or hate, depending on taste).

The 8XX is laid back and relaxing. Not as forward and bright, or as exciting, compared to the 800S.

I probably prefer the 800S overall, but maybe the 8XX has a place in my collection as my “relax” set.

UPDATE: I’ve returned the headphone. I couldn’t afford keeping both the 8XX and the rest of my collection of already laid back sounding gear. And I prefer at least one other headphone for this style of sound.

It may be someone’s favorite, but it isn’t mine. It is missing that sparkle I miss from Sennheiser headphones.

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

UPDATE: I’ve returned the headphone. I couldn’t afford keeping both the 8XX and the rest of my collection of already laid back sounding gear. And I prefer at least one other headphone for this style of sound.

It may be someone’s favorite, but it isn’t mine. It is missing that sparkle I miss from Sennheiser headphones.

What's the one headphone you prefer for that style?

 

[tkddans]

If Josh ranking the Clear higher than the HD800S pokes your belly, then you probably think the same for Crin because he ranks the Clear A+ while the HD800/S is in B+ tier.

This fact has been so interesting to me. When I had seen Crin giving one of my favorite headphones a B+ (800S), I knew we had different tastes.

This hobby is like any hobby centering on the senses; like eating food, it can be highly personal and subjectively different between people with what they will enjoy more. Or looking at art, what resonates is different with all of us.

The 800S has a special place in my heart. After only having the 650 when I first started in the hobby, I tried the original 800 in an audio shop and it blew my mind. At that moment, I wasn’t thinking about what I was missing on the low end, or how “good” it was at being balanced…what I heard and felt was the beautiful sound it made for what it was trying to do. That jazz album I listened to for the first time that day, Live in Hamburg, by Esbjörn Svensson Trio, was and still is my favorite jazz album I’ve ever heard. And the 800/800S was and still is my favorite way of listening to it.

800S is a S rank for me. When I saw the B+, I knew we had different tastes.

 

[tkddans]

What's the one headphone you prefer for that style?

I really enjoy the Grado limited edition Hemp as far as headphones that make you want to chill out. It is terrible on paper, but has a nostalgic vibe that meshes so well with live music and, well, any music.

But my current favorite easy listening, warm, full sound is the 7hz Timeless (on drop for $200), normally $220. I just have an impression of it on my channel and these things give you such relaxing listening on the low end while still providing fantastic texture on instruments and vocals. It isn’t sharp and separated like the 800S, but rich and textured instead. Absolutely enjoying the set and it currently stands at a S rank for my personal enjoyment and tastes.

 

[Vzyenyx]

I mean the clear vs 800s they are strong at what they do respectively, doesn't make someones opinion invalid they just aren't valuing the same things you might personally value(which ultimately this subjective hobby is about with impressions).

 

[Beagle]

I just received my 8XX last week and, after watching and reading "reviews" after the final tuning and expecting a horror show, I have to say I am quite impressed with it. I do not hear huge suckouts, colorations or anomalies in the FR. I hear a basically smooth response, a tad laid back, but timbrally very accurate. I previously have owned the HD800 and really liked it except for a scratchy lower treble that found it's way onto everything I listened to.

The biggest complaint with these (in other reviews) seemed to be with vocals. I have no clue what they use for their source (or what they are expecting to hear) so I went back to original sources for good vocal performances, such as original vinyl versions of "Weavers Reunion at Carnegie Hall Pt 2" and Roberta Flack "Chapter Two". At least I knew that these sounded natural, since they have live a variety of voices and acoustic instruments and/or a natural sounding recording/engineering. Vocals, guitars, banjos, piano and strings all sounded the way you would hear them live. Also using the 2016 remastered CD version of Bowie's "Station To Station", electric guitars and drums sounded full and energetic.

My S/N is 00623. Perhaps there has been a further tweak to tuning before they shipped out the latest ones but I find these, again, very timbrally accurate and enjoyable, with very nice dynamics and transients. Treble is silky and bass is well defined, solid and floats in the soundfield, rather than being pasted around the bottom. I am NOT hearing thin reedy voices or singers shouting into trash bins. As I previously indicated, I do find them just a tad laid back in the upper mids but certainly nothing that affected the other areas before and after it in the FR. And it's recording and source dependent. Some recordings did sound bright, some dull and others just right.

So that to me would indicate that if the headphone was designed to be fairly neutral, it's probably doing the job it's supposed to be doing. Some may want something more "alive" or "exciting". You'll have to look for something else. Me, I find the 8XX to be quick yet relaxed, which, for me, is when music sounds musical and not various forms of audio.

This is what I hear and I rather like what I hear. You need to be your own judge. You can't have everything and this is not everything. But those who liked the Neumann NDH20's midrange might like this.

 

[rfernand]

Me, I find the 8XX to be quick yet relaxed, which, for me, is when music sounds musical and not various forms of audio.

That’s nice to read! Seems the pair you got gives you what you like, which is all one can ask for

You ask about vocals. One of the tracks I used was “Band on the Run” By Paul McCartney and Wings (which is quite the piece in three very different parts). Paul sings ballad, rock, and then country-ish. I have those vocals in my head through years of vinyl, cassette, CD, you name it. The 8xx gave me a different presentation in which Paul simply did not sound like Paul to me. Peter Gabriel’s ”Mercy Street” from So is another track I know very well. Gabriel has a much narrower vocal range than McCartney and he also sounded off. It felt like the vocals were “gasping” to me. I think @Pigeon X describes the effect as “echoey”.

I‘m from the “there is no such thing as perfect reproduction” camp, by the way. And there are dozens, DOZENS of us, I tell you. Which is to say I always assume all equipment has an opinion on how to present things. I just found the 8xx’ s take on vocals too weird for me, that’s all