Official Schiit Vali 2 Thread
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rootscript
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No this is not the best way to get the most out of your equipment. You should always run your DAC at 100%, use the Vali is your main volume control - Does that make sense?
pieman3141
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If the DAC had digital volume control, I'd agree with you and none of this would be an issue. However, the DAC uses analog control, and considering that many DACs output at different voltages (Modi outputs at 1.5V, i-devices output at something even less), I think I need a better explanation regarding why this is a bad idea. Nothing I've read has stated anything otherwise.
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As a general rule you are correct, as the higher the input the less the amplifier has to amplify the sound and the signal to noise ratio may be minimised.
However, it also depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control. In order to make full use of the vol pot, and with some potentiometers to be able to turn the volume control up to a critical point where the two channels are correctly balanced, it may be necessary to attenuate the input signal. That should not have a negative affect on the sound as long as it's not excessively lowered. Many amps have input gain settings to allow you to do this.
You can also use the DAC as a balance control, if it allows you to alter the output of both channels independently, as with the M-DAC.
I prefer to let my ears make the decisions in these matters, not conventional wisdom.
.
Noremac82
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Did they only make this one model at that plant or were there others? I am looking for a good article about the plant now. Seems like they had a really good thing going on. I wonder if it was the process, design or the raw materials that led to those tubes kinda standing out against the others from that time. If those people only knew we would be clamoring over their tubes 50 years later. It's pretty interesting stuff.
They made many types. Here is a short article about the history of the Heerlen plant.
Update:
Noremac82
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That was an interesting read. I wish it had a little more technical info but that wasn't the subject of that article. I am intrigued by how we can not make tubes today like they did back then. I understand the demand isn't there so people don't invest but you would think someone someplace would make custom tubes of very high quality if it was possible. Yes they would be expensive but people in this hobby would buy them. I guess tube making has gone the way of Damascus steel and building pyramids. It's a lost art.
Tuneslover
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And the "King of the Castle" is...
I'm new to this thread--does anyone know how the Vali 2 does with HD650? Thanks!
Skarecrow77
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Getting the most out of my Vali 2 with a Gumby.
No hate, I love my Vali 2, but that pic feels like you're driving your Ferrari through the Burger King drive through!
joeexp
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No offence, but don't be fooled by the size of the Vali 2 - It is superior to most amps below the $1000 mark.
I don't know how you can compare the Vali to a Burger King drive through. Nothing cheap about the sound….
Tuneslover
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I too have the Vali 2 and it was being fed by a Bifrost 4490. It sounded good but for "schiit & giggles" I decided to swap out the V2 for my solid state Lake People G109S to see how it sounds. Well that was quite a revelation, all of a sudden my 4490 blossomed! Not only that but the G109S allowed my HE500 & HD650 to come to life and demonstrate to me their full potential!
Don't get me wrong, I love my Vali 2 (my first dabble with a tube hybrid amp) and I certainly plan to keep it...check out it's new home above Post #1240. However I believe that the V2 was actually "clogging" up the chain in my system. I think it comes down to component matching in order to get good balance and synergy in the chain.
My Vali 2 is now being paired with a Modi (original) fed by my iMac and it sounds terrific on that system. Because I have a SYS in this stack I am able to toggle between the V2 and my Magni 2U...fun.
rootscript
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I will put some info in here, hopefully to see if we can shed some more light on this particular issue. General rules to get bit-perfect are general, so there might be other factors at play with different hardware.
Quote:
You said previously, that you DAC outputs 2V. If the music clips when your 2V DAC is at 100%, then reduce the gain of the component that is clipping. What do you suspect is clipping?
So if your amp clips, turn down the amp volume.
Make sure that you are not boosting the software output dB (sometimes this might happen in eQ settings)
Something that you can try (read it somewhere else) if your DAC clips, try turning down your OS volume to 99% (The only reason to use player or OS attenuation is if your DAC is clipping), small reductions may be sufficient to stop clipping.
Generally, bit-perfect is with the DAC at 100%. I think that you are correct in saying that it depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control
The Vali 2 has a switch for low gain or high gain, when I run a 2V DAC at 100% I switch the Vali 2 to low gain.
If I had a DAC that has a log pot volume control I would bypass mod it. Most of the time the pots will be 10k sometimes more, but are usually not the best quality carbon pots.
There may be lots of opinions out there, but I'll put in some bits that I read elsewhere (not sure how applicable it is, but might help pieman3141 find the info he needs)
Something else i read somewhere else:
The only reason you would ever want to use software attenuation is if your DAC is clipping or something else weird is going on. This can happen when the D/A chip's tolerances are slighty off; for example, a -0.1dBFS signal might clip the D/A chip.
Other things I have read say that if your sources are compressed, this can lead to clipping too (I have no idea if this is true).
This bit of advice seems to a useful explanation:
Every 6 dB of attenuation is equivalent to reducing the bit depth by one. If you started with, say, 16-bit audio and reduced the volume by 12 dB, you'd effectively be listening to 14-bit audio instead. Turn the volume down too much and quality will start to suffer noticeably.
&
to get the highest resolution (bit depth) possible, have an analogue volume control as one of the last things in front of the speakers. Assuming all the devices in your signal path are of more or less comparable quality (i.e. you're not pairing a cheap low-end amplifier with a high-end digital source and DAC), that should give the best audio quality.
The Vali isn't the best amp, but it does have gain adjustment, so that is worth adjusting to low gain I think. If you have to adjust the DAC volume then try the absolute minimum as it will reduce the bit depth, however it seems that pieman3141 issues are firstly appear to be related to clipping when playing at higher volumes; so the question is quality bit depth at normal volume levels, or lower bit depth at higher volumes (without clipping).
I hope that helps a little, it depends if you can hear a difference (with your equipment) between an example 16bit & 14bit file I guess; amp clipping is something that is easier to notice.
Quote:
You said previously, that you DAC outputs 2V. If the music clips when your 2V DAC is at 100%, then reduce the gain of the component that is clipping. What do you suspect is clipping?
So if your amp clips, turn down the amp volume.
Make sure that you are not boosting the software output dB (sometimes this might happen in eQ settings)
Something that you can try (read it somewhere else) if your DAC clips, try turning down your OS volume to 99% (The only reason to use player or OS attenuation is if your DAC is clipping), small reductions may be sufficient to stop clipping.
Generally, bit-perfect is with the DAC at 100%. I think that you are correct in saying that it depends on the relationship between the gain of the amplifier to the volume control
The Vali 2 has a switch for low gain or high gain, when I run a 2V DAC at 100% I switch the Vali 2 to low gain.
If I had a DAC that has a log pot volume control I would bypass mod it. Most of the time the pots will be 10k sometimes more, but are usually not the best quality carbon pots.
There may be lots of opinions out there, but I'll put in some bits that I read elsewhere (not sure how applicable it is, but might help pieman3141 find the info he needs)
Something else i read somewhere else:
The only reason you would ever want to use software attenuation is if your DAC is clipping or something else weird is going on. This can happen when the D/A chip's tolerances are slighty off; for example, a -0.1dBFS signal might clip the D/A chip.
Other things I have read say that if your sources are compressed, this can lead to clipping too (I have no idea if this is true).
This bit of advice seems to a useful explanation:
Every 6 dB of attenuation is equivalent to reducing the bit depth by one. If you started with, say, 16-bit audio and reduced the volume by 12 dB, you'd effectively be listening to 14-bit audio instead. Turn the volume down too much and quality will start to suffer noticeably.
&
to get the highest resolution (bit depth) possible, have an analogue volume control as one of the last things in front of the speakers. Assuming all the devices in your signal path are of more or less comparable quality (i.e. you're not pairing a cheap low-end amplifier with a high-end digital source and DAC), that should give the best audio quality.
The Vali isn't the best amp, but it does have gain adjustment, so that is worth adjusting to low gain I think. If you have to adjust the DAC volume then try the absolute minimum as it will reduce the bit depth, however it seems that pieman3141 issues are firstly appear to be related to clipping when playing at higher volumes; so the question is quality bit depth at normal volume levels, or lower bit depth at higher volumes (without clipping).
I hope that helps a little, it depends if you can hear a difference (with your equipment) between an example 16bit & 14bit file I guess; amp clipping is something that is easier to notice.
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