[miceblue]

Are you using your O2 setup for them?

I have the SR-009s, SR-007s and HD800s here and the HE1000's bass is right up there in terms of speed!

The HE1000 is pretty easy to drive. Yes I was using the O2, but I heard the same thing on the Ragnarok and Havana 2 DAC, as well as the Emotiva on speaker taps. I don't anyone will say the Ragnarok is a slouch of an amplifier. XD

 

[moodyrn]

   
So far I am quite impressed with them. They seem to disappear on my head...something I never thought possible with a planar headphone. The new EL-8s did take a step in the right direction, but these just hit the target. Bass is outstanding with some of the best lowest octaves I've heard, mids are sublime and the treble is oh so smooth. Imaging is likely the best next to my HD800s and SR-009s that I've heard. 
 
I've been using them exclusively on my main rig: HE1000s balanced 4pin --> GS-X Mk2 --> Metrum Hex...but tomorrow I'll see how they sound through my Concero HP and AK100II.
 
I hope you're enjoying them as much as I am. 
 
More to come...

 
They will only get better.

What defines speed for bass? I'm hearing the HE1000 to sound pretty slow in the bass/lower-midrange next to the SR-207. Bass/lower-midrange notes seem to linger on more than the SR-207 and it sounds slow to me, having a more blurred sound. Objectively, a waterfall plot would be able to show driver decay over tested frequencies, but no one here has done that yet.

Waterfall measurements for the SR-207 have been done on the other hand, and the bass decay is pretty superb, as is the rest of the frequency spectrum.

Likewise for the AKG K701. Although the bass itself isn't nearly as extended as either headphone, I hear the bass notes keeping up with the music pretty well and they never seem to get blurred as I hear with the HE1000.

 
A lot of that have to do with the amp you are using. It is a nice thing that they can sound good out of a budget amp. But given my experience with the several amps I've tried, no way are you getting close to hitting the ceiling with that setup. I think the O2 is a very good value amp for the price. But it's not close to giving the he1000 what they need to hit their full potential.

 

[MacedonianHero]

The HE1000 is pretty easy to drive. Yes I was using the O2, but I heard the same thing on the Ragnarok and Havana 2 DAC, as well as the Emotiva on speaker taps. I don't anyone will say the Ragnarok is a slouch of an amplifier. XD

 
Easy to drive is one thing...driving well is something all together different IME.  Plus the DAC/Source really come into play with transparent headphones like these.
 
But I've got some pretty good TOTL headphones here and I've been going back and forth with them tonight and the HE1000s keep up with them...no doubt to my ears.

 

[jerg]

Another thing to note is that HE1000 sustains low-level bass/sub-bass information quite effortlessly, that might be confused with the perception of it having slow bass decay. It decays sharp bass fall-offs fast enough.

 

[miceblue]

A lot of that have to do with the amp you are using. It is a nice thing that they can sound good out of a budget amp. But given my experience with the several amps I've tried, no way are you getting close to hitting the ceiling with that setup. I think the O2 is a very good value amp for the price. But it's not close to giving the he1000 what they need to hit their full potential.

Maybe so. Thinking about it though, what would another amp provide that the O2 couldn't? I've already outlined my listening preferences and power requirements; power is not an issue here, and indeed even with the speaker tap outputs of the Emotiva (50 W into 8Ω), I barely heard an audible difference between the two when listening to them volume-matched. Certainly not to the extent where I would say that the O2 isn't capable of driving the HE1000 well, and sounding good.

Easy to drive is one thing...driving well is something all together different IME. 

But I've got some pretty good TOTL headphones here and I've been going back and forth with them and the HE1000s keep up with them...no doubt to my ears.

True, quality ≠ drive. However, that doesn't explain why I heard the same effect as on the Ragnarok and Emotiva. I would think the headphone itself would make much more a difference than an amp, and even more so considering the HE1000 isn't a difficult load on the amp.

 

[DreamKing]

The HE1000 is pretty easy to drive. Yes I was using the O2, but I heard the same thing on the Ragnarok and Havana 2 DAC, as well as the Emotiva on speaker taps. I don't anyone will say the Ragnarok is a slouch of an amplifier. XD

 
I wouldn't worry about it, all of this talk is subjective. An amp's job isn't the transducers. All it has to do is drive the transducer transparently and at the loudness levels you need. The making the transducer reach full potential thing has yet to be objectively tested, volume matched to have any merit and isn't even a part of how an amp's performance is evaluated.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Maybe so. Thinking about it though, what would another amp provide that the O2 couldn't? I've already outlined my listening preferences and power requirements; power is not an issue here, and indeed even with the speaker tap outputs of the Emotiva (50 W into 8Ω), I barely heard an audible difference between the two when listening to them volume-matched. Certainly not to the extent where I would say that the O2 isn't capable of driving the HE1000 well, and sounding good.
True, quality ≠ drive. However, that doesn't explain why I heard the same effect as on the Ragnarok and Emotiva. I would think the headphone itself would make much more a difference than an amp, and even more so considering the HE1000 isn't a difficult load on the amp.

 
I find it about the same as the HD800s in terms of efficiency with my GS-X Mk2...and as mentioned, I have the SR-009/007/HD800/LCD-X right here and I've been going back and forth tonight and the HE1000s are toward the top of the list in regards to bass speed after my first night. I can only imagine how much better things will get with more burn-in.

 

[money4me247]

What defines speed for bass? I'm hearing the HE1000 to sound pretty slow in the bass/lower-midrange next to the SR-207. Bass/lower-midrange notes seem to linger on more than the SR-207 and it sounds slow to me, having a more blurred sound. Objectively, a waterfall plot would be able to show driver decay over tested frequencies, but no one here has done that yet.

Waterfall measurements for the SR-207 have been done on the other hand, and the bass decay is pretty superb, as is the rest of the frequency spectrum.

Likewise for the AKG K701. Although the bass itself isn't nearly as extended as either headphone, I hear the bass notes keeping up with the music pretty well and they never seem to get blurred as I hear with the HE1000.

I've done tons of CSD measurements on the HE-1k. However, I don't have any electrostatics to compare them too and it is generally not advisable to compare measurements from different set-ups as some elements may be artifacts due to a specific measuring set-up. With planar magnetic headphones, there is often the 'ortho wall' at ~5kHz. Don't think I understand the subject well enough to explain it myself yet.
 

  Another thing to note is that HE1000 sustains low-level bass/sub-bass information quite effortlessly, that might be confused with the perception of it having slow bass decay. It decays sharp bass fall-offs fast enough.

I agree with this very much. I find that there is a lot of additional sub-bass information presented on the HE-1k that gives a very different sense than what I am traditionally used to with a lot of my test tracks when doing direct comparisons. Can greatly alter your perception of the bass attack and decay times & make it difficult to judge. The thing that I found to be quite cool is that the 'extra' decay lengthening per note can often varies extremely significantly on the HE-1k whereas for the Audeze LCD-X, I sort of get the sense that there is always distinct and consistent amount of extra reverb added onto the end of each note. the HE-1k I would get really varying sense of its actual decay depending on the source track used. Did also run single note tests to judge decay & felt the HE-1k was the winner. note sighted test of course, so as always the possibility of expectation bias, placebo effect, & everything else so just keep that in mind of course.

 

[miceblue]

Well okay. Let's assume the O2 isn't that good of an amp and all this time I've been listening to the HE1000 under crap listening conditions. Let's assume all of my sonic impressions are just some mistake and I'm not hearing the HE1000 properly. I'll be getting the LH Labs Pulse X Infinity on Saturday; 3 W headphone output on the XLR balanced plugs. I don't think the balanced outputs will make a big difference in sound quality over the single-ended ones due to how the outputs are designed for it, but why not give it a shot while I have the HE1000. I have no idea how balanced vs unbalanced will sound given this similar topology.

As a control, I have the K701 modified with a hard-wired 4-pin XLR cable and a XLR-3.5 mm adaptor made from the same cut of cable. People say balanced sounds better than unbalanced (though most of these comparisons are on two different amps all together and already makes the comparisons invalid). People also say headphone cables make a difference. Having the K701+adaptor made from the same piece of original cable would be a nice control against the HE1000 with its two separate, of unknown origin, XLR and 3.5 mm cables.


The Pulse X Infinity has active outputs. I can use it as a DAC with RCA outputs to connect to O2 and do A/B testing with it. Because I'm assuming the O2 isn't very capable of driving my 31-ohm (measured), zero inductance/purely resistive HE1000, I'll make the hypothesis that the Pulse X Infinity will blow it out of the water.



Sure, sub-bass information may make one think it decays slowly, but that too doesn't explain why I hear that effect on the lower-midrange area, which is pretty far away in Hertz from the sub-bass.




Note: before you throw in the "you have to burn-in your HE1000" thing, my unit has around 150 hours of burn-in

 

[DreamKing]

I assume you'll be volume-matching the outputs to 0.1 dB since the balanced output on that amp has double the output voltage of the single-ended. And they share the volume control so maybe the best way this could be done is digitally through presets (to null any effect delay could have on echoic memory). You've got all the necessary stuff it seems like so it should be an interesting conclusion for yourself.
 
At what impedance is the 3W output by the way?

Well okay. Let's assume the O2 isn't that good of an amp and all this time I've been listening to the HE1000 under crap listening conditions. Let's assume all of my sonic impressions are just some mistake and I'm not hearing the HE1000 properly. I'll be getting the LH Labs Pulse X Infinity on Saturday; 3 W headphone output on the XLR balanced plugs. I don't think the balanced outputs will make a big difference in sound quality over the single-ended ones due to how the outputs are designed for it, but why not give it a shot while I have the HE1000. I have no idea how balanced vs unbalanced will sound given this similar topology.

 

[miceblue]

  I assume you'll be volume-matching the outputs to 0.1 dB since the balanced output on that amp has double the output voltage of the single-ended. And they share the volume control so maybe the best way this could be done is digitally through presets (to null any effect delay could have on echoic memory). You've got all the necessary stuff it seems like so it should be an interesting conclusion for yourself.
 
At what impedance is the 3W output by the way?

Oh, right! I totally forgot about the double-values.
3 gain levels, digital volume control. The original 3 W was at 16 Ω, which is an ideal power measurement since it helps determine current delivery, which is important for the HE1000 in this case since it requires a good amount of it.

Spoiler: Pulse X power output values at various impedances

Gain​	Impedance (Ω)​	Vrms​	mA​	mW​
Base Measurements​
Low​	16​	1.8​	112.50​	202.50​
Medium​	3​	187.50​	562.50​
High​	7​	437.50​	3062.50​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	225.00​	810.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	375.00​	2250.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	875.00​	12250.00​

 
 
 
Innerfidelity's unit's impedance value

Innerfidelity's Impedance​
Low​	34​	1.8​	52.94​	95.29​
Medium​	3​	88.24​	264.71​
High​	7​	205.88​	1441.18​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	105.88​	381.18​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	176.47​	1058.82​
High (XLR)​	14​	411.76​	5764.71   ​

 
 
HIFIMAN's tolerances

-5 Ω​
Low​	30​	1.8​	60.00​	108.00​
Medium​	3​	100.00​	300.00​
High​	7​	233.33​	1633.33​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	120.00​	432.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	200.00​	1200.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	466.67​	6533.33​

 

35 Ω Target​
Low​	35​	1.8​	51.43​	92.57​
Medium​	3​	85.71​	257.14​
High​	7​	200.00​	1400.00​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	102.86​	370.29​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	171.43​	1028.57​
High (XLR)​	14​	400.00​	5600.00​

 

+5 Ω​
Low​	40​	1.8​	45.00​	81.00​
Medium​	3​	75.00​	225.00​
High​	7​	175.00​	1225.00​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	90.00​	324.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	150.00​	900.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	350.00​	4900.00​

 
 
My unit's impedance values

3.5 mm Cable​
Low​	31​	1.8​	58.06​	104.52​
Medium​	3​	96.77​	290.32​
High​	7​	225.81​	1580.65​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	116.13​	418.06​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	193.55​	1161.29​
High (XLR)​	14​	451.61​	6322.58​

 

6.3 mm Cable​
Low​	32​	1.8​	56.25​	101.25​
Medium​	3​	93.75​	281.25​
High​	7​	218.75​	1531.25​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	112.50​	405.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	187.50​	1125.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	437.50​	6125.00​

 
 
 
And just as a reminder for the HE1000 measured at Innerfidelity (34 Ω, 0.287 Vrms to reach 90 dB SPL):

​	Amplifier Power Requirements​
dB SPL​	mW​	W​	Vrms​	mA​
69​	0.019​	0.000​	0.026​	0.752​
72​	0.038​	0.000​	0.036​	1.063​
75​	0.077​	0.000​	0.051​	1.501​
78​	0.153​	0.000​	0.072​	2.120​
81​	0.305​	0.000​	0.102​	2.995​
84​	0.609​	0.001​	0.144​	4.231​
87​	1.214​	0.001​	0.203​	5.976​
90​	2.423​	0.002​	0.287​	8.441​
93​	4.834​	0.005​	0.405​	11.923​
96​	9.645​	0.010​	0.573​	16.842​
99​	19.244​	0.019​	0.809​	23.790​
102​	38.396​	0.038​	1.143​	33.605​
105​	76.610​	0.077​	1.614​	47.468​
108​	152.857​	0.153​	2.280​	67.051​
111​	304.989​	0.305​	3.220​	94.712​
114​	608.534​	0.609​	4.549​	133.784​
117​	1214.185​	1.214​	6.425​	188.974​
120​	2422.618​	2.423​	9.076​	266.933​

 
 
 
 

 

As for volume-matching with the two headphone outputs, it would be impossible without an XLR impedance adaptor (if that even exists) since each output is active. I'm usually pretty good at volume-matching by ear without an A/B switch though. Of course it's not as accurate but it's better than nothing.

 

[DreamKing]

  Oh, right! I totally forgot about the double-values.
3 gain levels, digital volume control. The original 3 W was at 16 Ω, which is an ideal power measurement since it helps determine current delivery, which is important for the HE1000 in this case since it requires a good amount of it.

Spoiler: Pulse X power output values at various impedances

Gain​	Impedance (Ω)​	Vrms​	mA​	mW​
Base Measurements​
Low​	16​	1.8​	112.50​	202.50​
Medium​	3​	187.50​	562.50​
High​	7​	437.50​	3062.50​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	225.00​	810.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	375.00​	2250.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	875.00​	12250.00​

 
 
 
Innerfidelity's unit's impedance value

Innerfidelity's Impedance​
Low​	34​	1.8​	52.94​	95.29​
Medium​	3​	88.24​	264.71​
High​	7​	205.88​	1441.18​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	105.88​	381.18​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	176.47​	1058.82​
High (XLR)​	14​	411.76​	5764.71   ​

 
 
HIFIMAN's tolerances

-5 Ω​
Low​	30​	1.8​	60.00​	108.00​
Medium​	3​	100.00​	300.00​
High​	7​	233.33​	1633.33​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	120.00​	432.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	200.00​	1200.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	466.67​	6533.33​

 

35 Ω Target​
Low​	35​	1.8​	51.43​	92.57​
Medium​	3​	85.71​	257.14​
High​	7​	200.00​	1400.00​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	102.86​	370.29​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	171.43​	1028.57​
High (XLR)​	14​	400.00​	5600.00​

 

+5 Ω​
Low​	40​	1.8​	45.00​	81.00​
Medium​	3​	75.00​	225.00​
High​	7​	175.00​	1225.00​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	90.00​	324.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	150.00​	900.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	350.00​	4900.00​

 
 
My unit's impedance values

3.5 mm Cable​
Low​	31​	1.8​	58.06​	104.52​
Medium​	3​	96.77​	290.32​
High​	7​	225.81​	1580.65​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	116.13​	418.06​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	193.55​	1161.29​
High (XLR)​	14​	451.61​	6322.58​

 

6.3 mm Cable​
Low​	32​	1.8​	56.25​	101.25​
Medium​	3​	93.75​	281.25​
High​	7​	218.75​	1531.25​
​	​	​	​
Low (XLR)​	3.6​	112.50​	405.00​
Medium (XLR)​	6​	187.50​	1125.00​
High (XLR)​	14​	437.50​	6125.00​

 
 
 
And just as a reminder for the HE1000 measured at Innerfidelity (34 Ω, 0.287 Vrms to reach 90 dB SPL):

​	Amplifier Power Requirements​
dB SPL​	mW​	W​	Vrms​	mA​
69​	0.019​	0.000​	0.026​	0.752​
72​	0.038​	0.000​	0.036​	1.063​
75​	0.077​	0.000​	0.051​	1.501​
78​	0.153​	0.000​	0.072​	2.120​
81​	0.305​	0.000​	0.102​	2.995​
84​	0.609​	0.001​	0.144​	4.231​
87​	1.214​	0.001​	0.203​	5.976​
90​	2.423​	0.002​	0.287​	8.441​
93​	4.834​	0.005​	0.405​	11.923​
96​	9.645​	0.010​	0.573​	16.842​
99​	19.244​	0.019​	0.809​	23.790​
102​	38.396​	0.038​	1.143​	33.605​
105​	76.610​	0.077​	1.614​	47.468​
108​	152.857​	0.153​	2.280​	67.051​
111​	304.989​	0.305​	3.220​	94.712​
114​	608.534​	0.609​	4.549​	133.784​
117​	1214.185​	1.214​	6.425​	188.974​
120​	2422.618​	2.423​	9.076​	266.933​

 
 
 
 

 

As for volume-matching with the two headphone outputs, it would be impossible without an XLR impedance adaptor (if that even exists) since each output is active. I'm usually pretty good at volume-matching by ear without an A/B switch though. Of course it's not as accurate but it's better than nothing.

 
Yeah, that balanced output is looking way beefier. It makes sense, since it would typically use double the internal parts that the single-ended would use. I haven't seen an amp's values change at a constant depending on the impedance yet so don't know if it would output that much at +/- 35 ohms based on just calculations, it would be interesting to measure that.
The balanced/single-ended comparison won't be as accurate and better than nothing, but it appears that the more immediate/conclusive comparison with less delay will be between different amps.
 
Good luck! Will read your findings.

 

[Trance_Gott]

Are you using your O2 setup for them?

I have the SR-009s, SR-007s and HD800s here and the HE1000's bass is right up there in terms of speed!

I plan to buy the HE1000 or SR009 to complete my endgame setup. Which is better? Can you give a quick comparison? I MOSTLY hear Rock, Pop and Metal.

 

[musicman59]

   
Easy to drive is one thing...driving well is something all together different IME.  Plus the DAC/Source really come into play with transparent headphones like these.
 
But I've got some pretty good TOTL headphones here and I've been going back and forth with them tonight and the HE1000s keep up with them...no doubt to my ears.

I agree with you Peter. These headphones seem easy to drive but actually they like power (Current) and the more the better they sound. They are very transparent so they really show you not only the recording but also the whole upstream audio chain. I have been playing with headphones cables for the stock to the Zeus OCC Copper to the WireWorld Nano Platinum OCC Silver and IMO these headphones are the ones showing a more significant change in sound of all the ones I have  when the cable is changed.
 
They do change and settle nicely with burn-in an edit take at least 120 hours to start getting there. Mine have over 200 hours and they little brightness shown when new is gone. Giving them between 5 to 10 watts make them open up and the soundstage get bigger and more holographic IMO. As you I do think they are very close in speed to my SR-009 but with better bass. Definitive not the same sound signature then the HE-6 but I personally like it better so I think my HE-6 are on their way to the for sale forum.

 

[Trance_Gott]

I agree with you Peter. These headphones seem easy to drive but actually they like power (Current) and the more the better they sound. They are very transparent so they really show you not only the recording but also the whole upstream audio chain. I have been playing with headphones cables for the stock to the Zeus OCC Copper to the WireWorld Nano Platinum OCC Silver and IMO these headphones are the ones showing a more significant change in sound of all the ones I have  when the cable is changed.

They do change and settle nicely with burn-in an edit take at least 120 hours to start getting there. Mine have over 200 hours and they little brightness shown when new is gone. Giving them between 5 to 10 watts make them open up and the soundstage get bigger and more holographic IMO. As you I do think they are very close in speed to my SR-009 but with better bass. Definitive not the same sound signature then the HE-6 but I personally like it better so I think my HE-6 are on their way to the for sale forum.

Do you think they are too soft in attack? Mids and Soundstage better as 009?