[tstarn06]

x2

 

[soozieq]

^^^^^ Thanks guys. Tony helped by covering pages 11-16 and then sending me the links.

So I can't take all the credit. . . oh, who am I kidding - of course I can

Seriously, it didn't occur to me at all, so nice one Tony, it does make it more 'useful', especially since the thread's evolved quite a bit from my original comparison between the Denons and the 310s.

Just look how much more information we have in the few short weeks since the thread was started, quite amazing. There'd be no need to have a link on the front page if there hadn't been so many excellent contributions

 

[99SiR]

thanks x3 Soozieq. I'd like to also thank you for turning me on to these little guys when i would have otherwise walked right by them in the store.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

LIVEWIRES VS Denon AH-C700

I have had out of town company all weekend, and gone driving through the mountains yesterday, and to the golf course today with son and mother-in-law who is now quite ill...

...So, I haven't been able to do much comparison of my Livewires that arrived yesterday vs Denon AH-C700 - this is my "first impression" with less than 2-3 hours with them on. I have A LOT more listening to do with them.

(1) VOLUME: LW's are a little more efficient = 40% on volume is same as Denon at 50% on a 3G nano, BUT they can go to 100% on the 3G nano without distortion.

(2) HIGHS: They are brighter, but not in a bad way, i.e. not fatiguing with most program material (except Pixies). They have more defined highs like other balanced armatures vs dynamic, but are also more extended than any of my Shures have been, likely matching the C700 highs extension. Livewires states they are flat to 12K before falling off, which should put them up there with other balanced armatures that can reach the 16K practical limit.

(3) MIDS: Are more defined and detailed than the C700, but not harsh in the upper mids like an ER6i, and not as subdued in the mids as the SE310/E4c/SE500's. Still, I am not sure about piano realism yet - I have only listened with an unamped 3G nano so far and not for enough time to study them. My music collection on the nano is limited.

(4) SOUND-STAGE: Everything sounds more present, yet at the same time the sound stage is wider than C700.

Often, like with SE500's, the wider the soundstage the less present or forward the midrange, but these don't seem to fit that expected behaviour. They match the SE500's wider sound stage without feeling distant.

(5) BASS: amplitude (i.e. volume) matches the C700's bass volume easily, and out-performs the ER6i bass. Using the 3G nano EQ set as "small speakers" which will only increase the bass and NOT raise mids or treble, the SE500's still have more bass impact. For some this will be good news, as that means the bass isn't bloated, and it is also not colored like a uper.fi 5 pro.

Meanwhile, the poor little ER6i NEED the EQ bass turned up in EQ (as above) to come close to the LW's - proof the LW have more bass than ER6i. At first, the more present mids and highs can make it seem like there is less bass, but a quick switch from LW's to the C700 does not result in an increase in bass with the C700 (even when adjusting the volume for less efficiency).

(6) ISOLATION: the LW isolate much more than the Denon C700, and almost but not quite matching the ER6i with black foams (which block out my alarm clock and cell phone in the morning). All of my Shure's have isolated more than the C700, but less than the ER6i. The LW are between the Shure and ER6i with both using black olive foamies for sound isolation.

(7) COMFORT: the LW disappear after a few minutes and you don't feel them. No other IEM I have tried does that!!

(8) SOUND SIGNATURE: What else do they sound like? I've said before my SE500's unamped kinda remind me of my Sennheiser HD600's with stock cable and an amp. The Denon C700 remind me of my Ultrasone HFI700 DVD sound balance, but without the sound stage. The LW's sound signature kinda reminds me of a high end Grado (i.e. better than iGrado, SR-60/80/125). It's a shame I haven't heard everything out there yet, or I'd have a better stable of phones to compare them to.

SUMMARY: LW's have brighter more detailed highs and mids than C700, with equal bass to C700 (but less than SE500's and more than ER6i's), a bigger soundstage that equals the SE500's, a good degree of isolation and more comfort than anything else I tried.

Again, this is my first impression, and I plan to do more A-B-C comparisons over the next few days. But, if I was forced to chose Denon AH-C700 vs Livewires right now, I pick Livewires. If forced to chose between Shure SE500's and Livewires, I'd shoot myself out of exasperation. I'm my case, I keep all 3. I actually bought the Denon for the decreased sound isolation and ability to keep up the bass output without a tight seal. I got the SE500's for times when I like to be a bass-head, otherwise I would have kept my SE310 and E4c. I got the Livewires to be my neutral monitors, to replace the E4c that I sold because they were too boring for me after the SE500's. The Livewires fortunately, while not colored, are not boring.

---------------

PS: I am still playing with getting the right position for the LW's. While the left ear-piece fits closer to perfect and even reseals by itself if I break the seal; the right one might be a little smaller than needed, as I can break the seal more easily than it should - and it stays unsealed until I reposition it. It seems like it could use a little more material right at the inferior and superior auditory meatus (I am a doctor, so I get to use big words).

I will give the LW's at least a week before I contact EarPeace about that. The manufacturer is more than happy to redo them for improper fit until it is right, at no charge. John even begged me to get them tweaked before complaining about them to everyone. (I am not complaining

) After reading about fit and seal in the UE11 threads, I am not 100% sure the issue is not my fault yet, so I want to do my part to find the right earpiece position first (screw them in, push, rotate, etc). It is mostly an issue if I am laying down in bed, sometimes with a neck roll pillow, but mostly if I roll over to my side or turn my head head a certain way. This can press on the ear canal between the pinna of the ear and mastoid process (more doctor words) and try to eject the earpiece. This is the same way you remove them when you are done using them too. Again, the left earpiece reseals itself, so I'd like the right to do that too.

(cross posted in the Livewire's Thread)

 

[soozieq]

Nice comparison headphoneaddict, now I can add this to the first page under 'initial impressions',

I like the description of the sound, as it sounds like the Denons but with even more detail. I wonder if the extra isolation helps? It's almost tempting to buy a pair for when 100% isolation is a must (although I can't justify the extra expenditure at the moment).

Tell me, as the Livewires cost about $100 more than the Denons (is that right, $250?), would you say they sound $100 better? Is the extra detail worth the extra money? I can't imagine more detailed highs than the Denons, but then I've never tried the Etys - and I don't yearn for more detailed highs than I get from the Denons.

I didn't think I'd be able to settle for non-iems having had them before, but I'm pretty happy with the isolation the Denons offer. Of course, it never hurts to have more

OK, off to add to the first page. Don't forget to give us an update once you've put in more listening time

 

[antonyfirst]

Very good description. It seems that the Livewires are really interesting IEMs.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very good description. It seems that the Livewires are really interesting IEMs.

It looks like it. Very curious to know if they sound $100 better

By the way, I've changed the front page and put the links at the top in date order. Go look. . .

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif Nice comparison headphoneaddict, now I can add this to the first page under 'initial impressions', I like the description of the sound, as it sounds like the Denons but with even more detail. I wonder if the extra isolation helps? It's almost tempting to buy a pair for when 100% isolation is a must (although I can't justify the extra expenditure at the moment). Tell me, as the Livewires cost about $100 more than the Denons (is that right, $250?), would you say they sound $100 better? Is the extra detail worth the extra money? I can't imagine more detailed highs than the Denons, but then I've never tried the Etys - and I don't yearn for more detailed highs than I get from the Denons. I didn't think I'd be able to settle for non-iems having had them before, but I'm pretty happy with the isolation the Denons offer. Of course, it never hurts to have more OK, off to add to the first page. Don't forget to give us an update once you've put in more listening time

Yes, I think they sound $100 better. But, if you are happy with the Denon detail and isolation, don't upgrade. You upgrade when you want more features/benefits or something different. Lot's of people were happy with the Camaro and never wanted to upgrade to the Corvette. Lot's of people were happy with the Corvette, and didn't care about getting the Porche (or porche to ferarri, etc).

I say, don't sell your Denon to buy the Livewires if you like the Denon - buy the Livewires to add to what you have as earphone choices. If you decide you can part with the Denon after hearing the Livewires, go ahead.

In the case of someone who is on a budget and can't imagine going over $120-$130 online, the Denon are a good choice. I do think the Livewires are worth the 2x cost premium ($250 shipped + cost to get impressions and mail impressions), but NOT at the expense of NOT having something to listen to now. Also, if you have $125 now, and want something nice to listen to now, and want to buy groceries with the other $125, buy the Denon.

But, maybe you are saving up money for nice IEM and $125 takes only 4-6 weeks to save up, so Livewires will take 8-12 weeks to save for. Then you could buy some JVC marshmallows for $25 shipped online, and while listening to something "decent" you can save up the $250 - $265 over 8-12 weeks (or 6 months) to add the Livewires to your arsenal.

In the $250-$300 range it's hard to pick between Livewires and ebay SE500's, because they are just too different - so it depends on what you want for a particular album or program material. To me, everyone should have both a Subaru Turbo and a SUV in the garage. If comfort, and detail, balance and power are the prime objective, you get a single Porche Cayenne (UE10 or 11?)

Moving on, I would GUESS that the Livewires accomplish the balanced sound that the $399 triple.fi 10's reach for, but at a lower cost, and what the Etymotic ER4p failed to do (detail + bass) but at a higher cost. At the same time, adding comfort and isolation. I sure would like to listen to those others to see if my interpretation of how people describe those is correct.

I CAN say that I haven't heard as much universal approval of the Sensaphonics or Westone Customs as I have of the Livewires. The only custom I have heard a similar high percentage of approval is the UE10 (It seems the UE11's "possibly colored" sound is still too controversial. I suspect many of the UE10 converts were tired of the more bland/neutral presentation that the UE10 gave them over the months or years, and wanted to change things up a little).

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

 

[soozieq]

I would never sell my Denons - they'd have to pry them out of my cold dead feet first

But as of now, I have only one set of headphones, and it would be nice to have a second pair just because I like 2 of everything in case one gets lost/broken. I would have bought a second pair if Denons had they been the same price I bought them for initially.

Fortunately, I am still being amazed by my Denons so I have no real need to upgrade - but when I have some spare money (in a few months) - I would definitely consider the Livewires so I could have one good pair of iems as well as one good pair of canalphones. Now that's not excessive is it???

 

[tstarn06]

Excessive? Of course not. After all, I own 6 sets of phones, and only have two ears. And none TOO expensive (but Livewires could be in my future, if my next few months at the poker tables prove profitable).

Here's a question for some of you. I already own a paid of soft (silicone) custom molds from FutureSonics (used them with the EM3s). I tried them with the Atrios, but while they sound okay, they keep the tip of the Atrios a little too far from my ears for optimum sound (at least it seems that way).

Okay, could Livewires be made from these sleeves (rather than another visit to the audiologist)? They are a perfect fit. I guess I should contact the Livewire folks about it, huh? Would save me $85.

 

[soozieq]

Does anyone know what a 'slow' midrange is? I read some other stuff about the Livewires and that comment was one of them. What does 'slow' mean exactly? And what is a 'thick' midrange? Is it warm, full, veiled? I wish descriptions were easier to understand. Slow and thick I can't make sense of.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Where in the world did you read that stuff?

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif Where in the world did you read that stuff?

http://homerecording.about.com/od/au.../livewires.htm Scroll down to 'sound signature'. It's not very well explained to a 'slow' 'thick' person like myself

. . 'thick and accurate midrange but slow response'.

It would help if they described the word 'thick' by giving an example. That's why I asked if it means 'full' 'warm' 'veiled'? I like a full sound but I don't know what a 'thick' sound is. And 'slow' - what, the music's playing at different speeds????

And from cnet.com: "While the LiveWires are downright spectacular at reproducing detailed, lively high-end frequencies, they seemed quite flat around the lower-to-middle frequencies as compared to the competition"

More confusion, flat? I thought 'flat' was supposed to be a good thing, meaning 'natural'? Am I wrong? I'm certainly confused. By the way, the competition referred to was the SE310 and Atrio M8, but apart from the loose comparison above, I didn't see any other mention of them. We've got more useful comparisons here.

I didn't think it was a very informative review from cnet at all. I'd like to hear your further impressions, as the more I think about it, the more I would definitely like a pair of iems to complement my Denons, and if tstarn can have 87 pairs for all situations. . .

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

From your link

"Earpeace's goal was quality on a budget: a professional quality, dual-driver custom-fitted earphone for around $279 (plus your audiologist's fees, of course). And the product doesn't disappoint in the least -- Earpeace's goal of a quality product at an accessible price was met -- and exceeded -- with the LiveWires earphones."