[chef8489]

Using the term trolling only proves that you are limited in providing realistic counter-arguments.
When you can't deal with the situation, then the only thing that comes to your mind is to shout troll troll, and then your dad comes and denies me the right to participate with the explanation - trolling
If it wasn't pathetic, it would be funny.
As I already mentioned - I don't care

When you refuse to accept the rules of sound science such as proper testing and backing up your claims with measurements, then you are trolling. This is the sounds science forum and facts and proper controlled tests are required here. If you can not handle this you are in the wrong area and you are the exact definition of a troll. Just as the regular area does not allow us to talk about double blind testing and facts, if we went there and constantly talked about it and called people out, we would be trolling in there. The only difference is we would be moderated heavily and our posts would be deleted and we would be banned from those threads. The mods here are far more lenient and people get away with far more in sound science.

 

[T 1000]

When you refuse to accept the rules of sound science such as proper testing and backing up your claims with measurements, then you are trolling. This is the sounds science forum and facts and proper controlled tests are required here. If you can not handle this you are in the wrong area and you are the exact definition of a troll. Just as the regular area does not allow us to talk about double blind testing and facts, if we went there and constantly talked about it and called people out, we would be trolling in there. The only difference is we would be moderated heavily and our posts would be deleted and we would be banned from those threads. The mods here are far more lenient and people get away with far more in sound science.

You are stuck in the mud.
Once again you are besieged by trolls

 

[gregorio]

In the next million posts, we will continue to talk about the same thing,

No we won’t, because if you continue spouting that same old nonsense and fallacies, you’ll be treated as a troll and it will eventually end in you being banned.

and I will continue to state that I did not succeed in enlightening you.

You didn’t answer the question, do you believe the earth is flat and all the other nonsense beliefs, just because thousands of people discuss their experiences of them? Did someone succeed in enlightening you that the earth is flat and if not, then what would it take? I don’t know about you but I’d need some extremely robust, reliable evidence to even start to consider the possibility and someone just repeating that a few thousand (deluded) people believe it so it must be true, doesn’t get anywhere even near to “extremely robust reliable evidence”, it’s just nonsense!

If you want to enlighten anyone here, then you need to start by providing reliable evidence. If you don’t, then all you’ll succeed in demonstrating is that you’re just another deluded audiophile who doesn’t know what an encyclopaedia is or how to use or understand one!

G

 

[T 1000]

Bay, I'm drowning in Nina Simone's voice

 

[T 1000]

No we won’t, because if you continue spouting that same old nonsense and fallacies, you’ll be treated as a troll and it will eventually end in you being banned.

You didn’t answer the question, do you believe the earth is flat and all the other nonsense beliefs, just because thousands of people discuss their experiences of them? Did someone succeed in enlightening you that the earth is flat and if not, then what would it take? I don’t know about you but I’d need some extremely robust, reliable evidence to even start to consider the possibility and someone just repeating that a few thousand (deluded) people believe it so it must be true, doesn’t get anywhere even near to “extremely robust reliable evidence”, it’s just nonsense!

If you want to enlighten anyone here, then you need to start by providing reliable evidence. If you don’t, then all you’ll succeed in demonstrating is that you’re just another deluded audiophile who doesn’t know what an encyclopaedia is or how to use or understand one!

G

Nina can wait a few seconds
Yes, the earth is flat, wouldn't you say that it is cubed?

 

[T 1000]

BAY
And don't dream of trolls

 

[bigshot]

Sometimes the biggest problem isn't the lack of evidence, it's the lack of a logical thought process. I see a lot of people coming up with a conclusion and then looking for evidence to support it, instead of letting the evidence lead to the conclusion. (i.e. cherry picking, ignoring data to the contrary, etc.) I also see people taking two steps of observation and then making a huge leap to a conclusion that may or may not be due to what they observed. ("This afternoon I noticed a guitar lick in this song I didn't hear before... My new DAC is better than my old one.") There are also belief systems substituting for factual logic (i.e. "I spent more money so it must sound better." or "This guy Watts is very smart so he has to be right.") There's also deliberately vague definitions and lack of attribution that allow one to flat out make stuff up (i.e. "I changed my fuses and my soundstage was improved by 70%!" ...with no definition of what fuses do, what soundstage is, what produces it, and how it can be degraded or improved.)

I personally think that the thought process is more important than the evidence itself, because a logical system of analysis is the process that leads to establishing facts and puts them into their proper context. But when I was growing up, there was debate club where we were taught the proper methods of arguing a point, and logic taught in middle school. I don't think students get that any more.

 

[gregorio]

So, what several of you claim is correct against thousands.

That should read: So, what several of you claim is correct with millions of scientists, engineers, universities, text books and scientific papers but against a few thousand audiophiles with nothing but audiophile marketing induced delusions.

Again though, it’s got nothing to do with the number of believers but the actual facts, go and start with an encyclopaedia!!

Trust me your logic is your worst enemy

Talk about irony! Your only argument is numbers of believers, a few thousand audiophiles against millions of engineers, scientists, university lecturers, etc., over the course of a century or so. So, your logic tells you a few thousand is more than millions and can’t see that it’s not the numbers anyway! Now that’s impressive, am I enlightened yet?

Can’t you see that you’re just digging yourself into deeper hole?

G

 

[gregorio]

Yes, the earth is flat, wouldn't you say that it is cubed?

I say the same as what the all the encyclopaedias, universities, scientists, engineers, text books, etc., say on this subject. Do you think they (and therefore I) say the earth is a cube?

That hole just keeps getting deeper!

G

 

[bfreedma]

There would be a lot less trolling here if everyone stopped giving them the attention they crave.

Arguing with trolls is an exercise in futility - they can fabricate any case they like to "support" their claims as facts are irrelevant to them.

Reality check - the current troll is painfully obvious. Do we really need counter such obviously incorrect posts? Do you think that anyone who believes the tripe being posted will be convinced by 1000 countering responses (I don't)?

 

[castleofargh]

@T 1000, it's so sweet of you to go out of your way just to prove bigshot right and me wrong. I'm sure he appreciates.

Modo stuff:
I'm locking you out of here too. And yes, it's a conspiracy against you. You know too much...

You've misunderstood pretty much everything I tried to tell you in various threads or in PM, at this point it seems silly to try and convince you that you've done anything wrong, but here's me trying like I'm talking to toddler.
You know how if you want to discuss a headphone, you should go in the Headphones section of the forum and find the right thread to post in. Then if you later want to write about your amplifier, you go in the related appreciation thread in the Headphone Amps or Portable Headphone Amp section of the forum? Well you've been posting a lot in this Sound Science section but almost none of it is related to science, and until evidence of the contrary that you will never provide, we can also be skeptical about your posts having much to to do with sound.
enough is enough, you here makes as little sense as my mother coming to lecture us about human hearing and audio gears. Go post in the proper sections of the forum and leave the science stuff you don't understand to others.

 

[whitedragem]

You are stuck in the mud.
Once again you are besieged by trolls

I love this; takes me back to the early eighties and ‘text adventures’.

I pressed the ‘N’ key several times, no luck, seems I can only go SOUTH from here….
Looking to the East for illumination.

pressing ‘i’ to check my present inventory, what am I meant to do with the Crank and Cog.. I have had them since the first chapter and feel I may have missed something.
Where do I get the batteries for the portable music player? I really want to enjoy the journey as much as the destination!

 

[bigshot]

Bfreedma, I totally agree with you, but the problem with that is that a dozen or more people have to modify their participation in the group to try to discourage one troublemaker. And Gregorio is a tremendous asset to the group, but this isn't his particular strong point. It's simpler to do what Castle just did and cut off the bad apple.

I agree that he was an obvious troll. I think we've seen him many times before under different accounts. I often see them enter threads continuing arguments from the past that I don't even remember. It's difficult for all of us to all be on the same page as to which idiot is the troll and which ignorant person isn't. I can discern the difference pretty well because I've been on the internet since usenet days, but some of us aren't as good at that. I think it's easiest to just call someone a troll who outright refuses to play by the rules of the forum (i.e. science) and refuses to treat the regular participants in this group respectfully.

It's a difficult problem and I think it's best dealt with quietly behind the scenes by the mods. Thank you Castle. I know it's frustrating. Here is a virtual cake for you.

 

[bigshot]

I love this; takes me back to the early eighties and ‘text adventures’.

XYZZY

Now THAT magic word is a very old one! I played "Adventure" on Arpanet in the fifth grade! (1969? 1970?)

 

[bfreedma]

Bfreedma, I totally agree with you, but the problem with that is that a dozen or more people have to modify their participation in the group to try to discourage one troublemaker. And Gregorio is a tremendous asset to the group, but this isn't his particular strong point. It's simpler to do what Castle just did and cut off the bad apple.

I agree that he was an obvious troll. I think we've seen him many times before under different accounts. I often see them enter threads continuing arguments from the past that I don't even remember. It's difficult for all of us to all be on the same page as to which idiot is the troll and which ignorant person isn't. I can discern the difference pretty well because I've been on the internet since usenet days, but some of us aren't as good at that. I think it's easiest to just call someone a troll who outright refuses to play by the rules of the forum (i.e. science) and refuses to treat the regular participants in this group respectfully.

It's a difficult problem and I think it's best dealt with quietly behind the scenes by the mods. Thank you Castle. I know it's frustrating. Here is a virtual cake for you.

Or you could just stop responding to trolls, which would likely make Castles job a lot easier while significantly improving the signal to noise ratio in Sound Science.