[VanHai]

Impressive collection, but we all know here which one is the crown jewel

Thank you.

 

[UntilThen]

Impressive collection, but we all know here which one is the crown jewel

They are all crown jewels here.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

@TheMiddleSky , rolling in Miniwatt Dario 6AV6 and Siemens EL81 now. They replace Tesla 6AV6 and EL81. These seem to have more sparkle and more body. Or perhaps I've swap dac from Yggdrasil to Bifrost 2.

Both set of tubes are great. Oblivion is just a great performer.

Nice, I curious about Tesla, will start to hunt them down. I need to "show off" my 6AT6s later.

I would love to try 6AV6, but you are right about the complication of those buried sockets and the hole is only 1 inch in diameter wide for 12AX7. I really enjoy the amp with stock types, it can drive both dynamic and planar headphones very well. I also own 4 other tube amps, DNA Sonett 2, LTA MZ3, Woo WA22 and Woo WA6 SE.

Impressive collection man, multiple tube amps combine with multiple ZMF, totally a bliss!

 

[TheMiddleSky]

For the sake to make me fall in love with Solid State amp again. The Lina Amp is only a loaned unit though.

 

[UntilThen]

For the sake to make me fall in love with Solid State amp again. The Lina Amp is only a loaned unit though.

And did you fall in love with the ss?

 

[Isaacc7]

When I first started talking with Tomas about my amp I told him that tube rolling was one of my main wanted features. He told me that he could either make an amp that minimized differences with the use of gyrators, ccs, etc. or go totally old school and allow tube variations to have a bigger impact. I of course opted for the lattter. Not only is my Odyssey sensitive to tube choices, it has the biggest array of settings I have ever seen on an amp like variable b+, variable bias for output tubes, external heater supplies, UL/triode, and even 4 and 8 ohm outputs.

This amp has transformed my understanding and relationship with tubes. Between the adjustments I can make and my, ahem, diverse tube choices I have amassed I have been able to achieve great sound from just about every tube I have tried. If when I put in a set of input or output tubes I didn’t like the sound I inevitably was able to get good sound with some adjustments or combining them with other tubes. And the few I haven’t gotten good sound from I probably just haven’t been patient enough to try enough tubes with.

What struck me the other day is that without all of these choices there would have been many many times I would have put in a tube only to exclaim that it wasn’t as good as another one I had used before. Worse yet, I might have thought that the amp itself wasn’t very good! That was me with amps I had in the past and I dare say that is many people today. God help you if you have a solid state amp and can’t adjust anything!

I can’t count the number of times that putting in an output tube of the same kind I had just been listening to disappoint me only to be amazed when I change the input or my preamp tubes. The opposite can happen too. I was sorely disappointed with the TS BGRP when I first got them. Whenever I put them in the system just didn’t sound as good as some others. It took me some time to accumulate more output tubes before hearing a combo I really liked with them (GE 6bg6ga in UL for the record). Or at least it took time for me to find a combo that I liked them in more than another tube.

Seeing how changeable my system is with different tubes has disabused me of the need to pursue grail tubes. I am also less inclined to believe in “house sounds” of different tube manufacturers. My guess is that I have about a 30% hit rate when it comes to guessing which tubes will make a good combo despite putting in many hours with them.

I’m so happy Tomas catered to my whims. I now have a system capable of so many good sounding presentations. And since I have so much flexability I can use off the beaten path tubes I can use much less expensive tubes. Mind you, I’ve more than made up the cost difference with quantity of tubes and adapters lol.

 

[OctavianH]

Very nice post. In this context I will also show what Tomas told me when we decided to go for a low power version of Infinity for me.

What I really appreciate on my amp is how good can sound with a very wide variety of tubes. It is incredible to try 30-40-50 types and still discover gems. During the time I stopped calling x or y the best because in my view all are good in specific situations and the equation is much more complex than exchanging a tube. I hear differences between everything I use, but I never had a tube to sound awful. The worse ones are maybe towards solid state flat type of sound while others are more euphonic. In rest, you just play with them as an equalizer adding or removing some bass or other frequency range. Depending on gain I perceive more or less "energy" so I have the feeling that faster music works better with a bigger gain tube. I also observed that there is a kind of minimum gain I like and that goes around 8 on output and 20 on input. Below that I have to raise a lot the volume knob (more than 12 o'clock) and I do not feel the sound so engaging. There is also a maximum, which I try to avoid, which is around 20 on output and 70 on input. So I am not quite into these ultra high gain tubes like 808 or 12AX7. For me the "sweet spot" on input is around 70 (6SL7/12AT7).

PS. All those remarks of Tomas are valid for Oblivion/Citadel/Infinity/Eternity. So the "modern" designs. Odyssey came later and is something else.

 

[Isaacc7]

Very nice post. In this context I will also show what Tomas told me when we decided to go for a low power version of Infinity for me.



What I really appreciate on my amp is how good can sound with a very wide variety of tubes. It is incredible to try 30-40-50 types and still discover gems. During the time I stopped calling x or y the best because in my view all are good in specific situations and the equation is much more complex than exchanging a tube. I hear differences between everything I use, but I never had a tube to sound awful. The worse ones are maybe towards solid state flat type of sound while others are more euphonic. In rest, you just play with them as an equalizer adding or removing some bass or other frequency range. Depending on gain I perceive more or less "energy" so I have the feeling that faster music works better with a bigger gain tube. I also observed that there is a kind of minimum gain I like and that goes around 8 on output and 20 on input. Below that I have to raise a lot the volume knob (more than 12 o'clock) and I do not feel the sound so engaging. There is also a maximum, which I try to avoid, which is around 20 on output and 70 on input. So I am not quite into these ultra high gain tubes like 808 or 12AX7. For me the "sweet spot" on input is around 70 (6SL7/12AT7).

PS. All those remarks of Tomas are valid for Oblivion/Citadel/Infinity/Eternity. So the "modern" designs. Odyssey came later and is something else.

I can attest to the ability to operate outside the parameters of the tube and the resultant sound lol.

 

[senseitedj]

For the sake to make me fall in love with Solid State amp again. The Lina Amp is only a loaned unit though.

I have a similar headphone amp (the built SS unit in my Bartok). The most interesting feature is the crossfeed feature, which cannot be used with the tele, but at the end of the day you cannot beat magic behind tubes

 

[senseitedj]

Very nice post. In this context I will also show what Tomas told me when we decided to go for a low power version of Infinity for me.



What I really appreciate on my amp is how good can sound with a very wide variety of tubes. It is incredible to try 30-40-50 types and still discover gems. During the time I stopped calling x or y the best because in my view all are good in specific situations and the equation is much more complex than exchanging a tube. I hear differences between everything I use, but I never had a tube to sound awful. The worse ones are maybe towards solid state flat type of sound while others are more euphonic. In rest, you just play with them as an equalizer adding or removing some bass or other frequency range. Depending on gain I perceive more or less "energy" so I have the feeling that faster music works better with a bigger gain tube. I also observed that there is a kind of minimum gain I like and that goes around 8 on output and 20 on input. Below that I have to raise a lot the volume knob (more than 12 o'clock) and I do not feel the sound so engaging. There is also a maximum, which I try to avoid, which is around 20 on output and 70 on input. So I am not quite into these ultra high gain tubes like 808 or 12AX7. For me the "sweet spot" on input is around 70 (6SL7/12AT7).

PS. All those remarks of Tomas are valid for Oblivion/Citadel/Infinity/Eternity. So the "modern" designs. Odyssey came later and is something else.

They don't just sound good on a wide variety of tubes, but they also sound very good with very basic tubes, even for the more tube-dependent ones such as Telemachus. I am still using the 'basic' PSVANE for the 300b tubes, and the amp still sounds fantastic.

 

[baronbeehive]

When I first started talking with Tomas about my amp I told him that tube rolling was one of my main wanted features. He told me that he could either make an amp that minimized differences with the use of gyrators, ccs, etc. or go totally old school and allow tube variations to have a bigger impact. I of course opted for the lattter. Not only is my Odyssey sensitive to tube choices, it has the biggest array of settings I have ever seen on an amp like variable b+, variable bias for output tubes, external heater supplies, UL/triode, and even 4 and 8 ohm outputs.

This amp has transformed my understanding and relationship with tubes. Between the adjustments I can make and my, ahem, diverse tube choices I have amassed I have been able to achieve great sound from just about every tube I have tried. If when I put in a set of input or output tubes I didn’t like the sound I inevitably was able to get good sound with some adjustments or combining them with other tubes. And the few I haven’t gotten good sound from I probably just haven’t been patient enough to try enough tubes with.

What struck me the other day is that without all of these choices there would have been many many times I would have put in a tube only to exclaim that it wasn’t as good as another one I had used before. Worse yet, I might have thought that the amp itself wasn’t very good! That was me with amps I had in the past and I dare say that is many people today. God help you if you have a solid state amp and can’t adjust anything!

I can’t count the number of times that putting in an output tube of the same kind I had just been listening to disappoint me only to be amazed when I change the input or my preamp tubes. The opposite can happen too. I was sorely disappointed with the TS BGRP when I first got them. Whenever I put them in the system just didn’t sound as good as some others. It took me some time to accumulate more output tubes before hearing a combo I really liked with them (GE 6bg6ga in UL for the record). Or at least it took time for me to find a combo that I liked them in more than another tube.

Seeing how changeable my system is with different tubes has disabused me of the need to pursue grail tubes. I am also less inclined to believe in “house sounds” of different tube manufacturers. My guess is that I have about a 30% hit rate when it comes to guessing which tubes will make a good combo despite putting in many hours with them.

I’m so happy Tomas catered to my whims. I now have a system capable of so many good sounding presentations. And since I have so much flexability I can use off the beaten path tubes I can use much less expensive tubes. Mind you, I’ve more than made up the cost difference with quantity of tubes and adapters lol.

You are lucky that you have a custom made amp with many possible adjustments, something that the big boys would not bother to have in their amps because of the manufacturing cost.

You have so many available features that it would be possible to find the sweet spot for any tube you might want to consider, part of the genius of Sonic. It must be a nightmare to consider all the possible combinations though . As B+ is one factor to consider in calculating the operating point you can see that being able to vary this as well as the other parameters, would enable a wide variety of possible points to experiment with.

When you have found the optimum operating point for any tube then a "poor" sounding tube will suddenly sound great. Many manufacturers will make a compromise on this and provide a generic set up knowing that users will want to try a variety of tubes. So you never get the best operation for all the different tube types. I have my amp set up for one tube type only in it's ideal, for me, operation, 6SL7, which is great but means that I can't then use 6SN7's. Speaking of the BGRP TS tube, it's always been my favourite whereas, for example the RCA grey glass 6SN7 sounded terrible. However I know that some people love it.

We, on the LD Supermods thread were constantly debating how to get the amps to sound more perfect and this is how the gyrator idea came up, because it enabled the flat load line OctavianH mentioned and clean, distortion free sound. This, and the linearity of tubes was the holy grail for us. But as UntilThen has said he loves the old school tube amp. And this is what some of us found on the thread that we didn't want the distortion free sound we actually loved the tube sound as it is without messing with it. Also there are so many options to have different sounds that you don't really need to have different amps, just different tubes. As distortion is a part of the tube sound that we all love we don't necessarily want to get rid of it.

 

[triod750]

Is any live music free from distorsion?

 

[TheMiddleSky]

And did you fall in love with the ss?

In short answer: Yes! Simply the best solid state amp I ever tried. I think I will have chance to test Silver Fox too, perhaps in 5 weeks time.

Lina Amp deliver impressive soundstage, bigger than typical Cayin HA300 II or Cayin HA-6A, and actually the soundstage almost as wide as Oblivion. Lina has obvious advantage with detail, layering, and believe it or not, even better spacious feel in depth perception than Oblivion. Tonal character wise, Lina has a little airier (brighter) treble on top, with a little leaner Midrange and Bass than Oblivion. Lina amp is far from being thin sounding amp though, Vocal has fuller body than Cayin HA-6A.

The problem: I don't think the advantages of Lina worth like 4 times the price of Oblivion (far from it actually, Oblivion's value is crazy). Also. Lina, being SS amps, of course still has a tendency to sound a little drier than Oblivion.

 

[UntilThen]

In short answer: Yes! Simply the best solid state amp I ever tried. I think I will have chance to test Silver Fox too, perhaps in 5 weeks time.

Lina Amp deliver impressive soundstage, bigger than typical Cayin HA300 II or Cayin HA-6A, and actually the soundstage almost as wide as Oblivion. Lina has obvious advantage with detail, layering, and believe it or not, even better spacious feel in depth perception than Oblivion. Tonal character wise, Lina has a little airier (brighter) treble on top, with a little leaner Midrange and Bass than Oblivion. Lina amp is far from being thin sounding amp though, Vocal has fuller body than Cayin HA-6A.

The problem: I don't think the advantages of Lina worth like 4 times the price of Oblivion (far from it actually, Oblivion's value is crazy). Also. Lina, being SS amps, of course still has a tendency to sound a little drier than Oblivion.

From what you're describing, if Oblivion is value for money in terms of sound and cost, Ultimate is even more so, especially with the latest tubes I'm using. Personally I still don't dig soild states. I had the chance to listen with Enleum 23R and I prefer Odyssey and Oblivion. What you're describing of Lina, sounds like Enluem 23R to me.

This guy reckons the Enleum 23R as the BEST amp he has ever heard but that's not my opinion. It's good but I still prefer good tube amps.

 

[Isaacc7]

You are lucky that you have a custom made amp with many possible adjustments, something that the big boys would not bother to have in their amps because of the manufacturing cost.

You have so many available features that it would be possible to find the sweet spot for any tube you might want to consider, part of the genius of Sonic. It must be a nightmare to consider all the possible combinations though . As B+ is one factor to consider in calculating the operating point you can see that being able to vary this as well as the other parameters, would enable a wide variety of possible points to experiment with.

When you have found the optimum operating point for any tube then a "poor" sounding tube will suddenly sound great. Many manufacturers will make a compromise on this and provide a generic set up knowing that users will want to try a variety of tubes. So you never get the best operation for all the different tube types. I have my amp set up for one tube type only in it's ideal, for me, operation, 6SL7, which is great but means that I can't then use 6SN7's. Speaking of the BGRP TS tube, it's always been my favourite whereas, for example the RCA grey glass 6SN7 sounded terrible. However I know that some people love it.

We, on the LD Supermods thread were constantly debating how to get the amps to sound more perfect and this is how the gyrator idea came up, because it enabled the flat load line OctavianH mentioned and clean, distortion free sound. This, and the linearity of tubes was the holy grail for us. But as UntilThen has said he loves the old school tube amp. And this is what some of us found on the thread that we didn't want the distortion free sound we actually loved the tube sound as it is without messing with it. Also there are so many options to have different sounds that you don't really need to have different amps, just different tubes. As distortion is a part of the tube sound that we all love we don't necessarily want to get rid of it.

Heh, I did pay a pretty penny for the amp though I think Tomas was still a good deal. The different combinations and settings are a bit bewildering I’ll admit. It’s easy to give up on tweaking after a certain point because I have accumulated a lot of really good sounding combos. Why spend more time with bad sound? Lol.

My thing is that my impressions with tube combos are unique. So many are happy to say that tube x has a specific sound. While that might make sense with people with the same amp and using similar headphones (especially planars) nobody on this site is using output tubes in ultralinear push pull into my speakers lol. I’m happy to record my journey but I’m not it’s going to help anyone else.

Would have been cool if someone else could experience the same amp Sigh.