[FatmanSize48]

Hello all,

I am looking in to getting a completely "transparent" setup (yes, in addition to a "musical setup) and seem to have settled on the ODAC and O2 for my source and amp respectively. My budget is roughly $400 USD for a very...well...transparent headphone. Does such a headphone truly exist? A ruler flat, full sized headphone? I have not found any yet. Has anyone?

Regards,
Kenneth

 

[chrislangley4253]

The T50RP can be modded to be pretty damn near flat. If you aren't into DIY the Paradox is very good. http://referencesounds.com/paradox.html
 
Also, don't rule out EQ.. If you get a headphone close to flat.. and play around with it using sweeps, pink noise and music.. An EQ can get you that complete flatness. (And really, when it comes down to it what is flat to one man might not necessarily be flat to another due to anatomical variation and all the external factors that affect hearing over someones life)

Don't rule out some monitors either.. For the price of the odac/o2 and a 400 dollar headphone, you could get a pretty darn respectable pair.

 

[TMRaven]

If I'm not mistaken, LFF used the O2 in part to create the sound of his Paradox headphones, which are objectively dead flat.  

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

If I'm not mistaken, LFF used the O2 in part to create the sound of his Paradox headphones, which are objectively dead flat.  

He likes the O2, as well as the Cavalli CTH. I wouldn't call them "objectively dead flat".
 
I know he tunes them by ear.. and I'm not certain that he uses measurements at all. Also, the pairs that have been measured were not "dead flat", but they did measure quite well, and they sound pretty superb. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them at all for a flat headphone. 

 

[TMRaven]

They are pretty much dead flat.
 

 

[chrislangley4253]

No point in arguing semantics. We are on the same team here
 
I would like to link one man's impressions of the BMF DIY mod, the paradox mod and the MadDog mod.. I'll have to dig it up, one moment: http://www.head-fi.org/t/633956/the-t50rp-paradox-review-mini-tour-impressions/120#post_8862267

See this thread if you are unfamiliar with BMF's mods: http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements (look for DBV #3 if you want to know which version of the BMF mods prepro has)

 

[FatmanSize48]

Those Paradox T50RPs look very nice. I remember listening to a normal pair of T50s and was pretty impressed with their price/performance ratio. Can you guys comment on differences you might have perceived between normal and modded T50s?

Thanks,

Kenneth

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Those Paradox T50RPs look very nice. I remember listening to a normal pair of T50s and was pretty impressed with their price/performance ratio. Can you guys comment on differences you might have perceived between normal and modded T50s?

Thanks,

Kenneth

 
Be warned that neutrality in the world of headphones is not a flat FR graph...
 
http://jyxo.info/uploads/82/82c6e7f896df38e1601c8574df38efde2a2feb9f.jpg
(green line)
 
As for the headphones, I would suggest Sennheiser HD650... However, it's not perfect in terms of total transparency.
 
Any chance to get Hifiman HE-500 used? This would be a very good and affordable choice....

 

[TMRaven]

It depends on the measurement itself.  For inner fidelity graphs, they do need some interpretation.  going down 10db to 20khz from 1khz is decently ideal.  For purrin's graphs, he applies compensation for them based on what he perceives from his measured-flat sounding speaker setup, so whatever is close to flat on his graphs is actually pretty close to flat for a headphone.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

It depends on the measurement itself.  For inner fidelity graphs, they do need some interpretation.  going down 10db to 20khz from 1khz is decently ideal.  For purrin's graphs, he applies compensation for them based on what he perceives from his measured-flat sounding speaker setup, so whatever is close to flat on his graphs is actually pretty close to flat for a headphone.

 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/FostexT50RPDIYModifiedLFFnosocks.pdf

 

[chrislangley4253]

Normal T50RP's are okay, but they come with NO dampening, which is a no-no with orthos.. And that's why they improve so much with some modding
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/618659/fostex-t50rp-incremental-mods-and-measurements/180#post_8882654

Looks like BMF is willing to let people demo his modded sets... Might be something you want to look into OP.

 

[FatmanSize48]

Ok. I guess I did not really clarify myself to start out with-sorry. I am definitely buying a set of HD650s and am soon ordering the parts for my Bottlehead Crack. I will be using an ODAC with this setup and I hope to use it for my reference setup. By reference, I mean flat, uncolored, and transparent. Please don't argue over the merits of this second "reference" system; my wallet, my loss. I am planning, as stated above, to use an O2 headphone amp, as I have listened to it and thought it was quite transparent, in comparison to other amps. I will be DIYing it, so for $50 of parts, there is no talking me out of this one.
I am using some K702s right now and am considering selling them. Their treble sounds a bit grainy at times and bass lacks impact. Yet from the parameters I have laid out, is it a good headphone for the needs I have listed? So many headphones...
Oh I saw another Thunderpants album today. Beatiful.

 

[MHOE]

Quote:

Ok. I guess I did not really clarify myself to start out with-sorry. I am definitely buying a set of HD650s and am soon ordering the parts for my Bottlehead Crack. I will be using an ODAC with this setup and I hope to use it for my reference setup. By reference, I mean flat, uncolored, and transparent. Please don't argue over the merits of this second "reference" system; my wallet, my loss. I am planning, as stated above, to use an O2 headphone amp, as I have listened to it and thought it was quite transparent, in comparison to other amps. I will be DIYing it, so for $50 of parts, there is no talking me out of this one.

I am using some K702s right now and am considering selling them. Their treble sounds a bit grainy at times and bass lacks impact. Yet from the parameters I have laid out, is it a good headphone for the needs I have listed? So many headphones...
Oh I saw another Thunderpants album today. Beatiful.

 
The O2 amp is a totally transparent device (in terms of human hearing)... But it's important to use the right gain for each pair of headphones in order to get the best results possible. If you are going to build the amp yourself, be sure to use SIPs (O2 details article on the author's blog) - you can switch gain resistors anytime you want (from 1x to 12x) in order to get the lowest distortion possible.
 
I am getting a totally transparent, distortion, hiss and noise -free sound with my LCD-2 rev2... Love it, it's like reality.
 
HD650 are a good choice and as you are going to use an uncolored amplifier, they should be near to neutral in their sound, in comparison with other headphones in the same price category.
 
AKGs are generally overtrebled... HD650 are going to sound different (more neutral IMHO even though there is a hump in the bass mainly).

 

[chrislangley4253]

yeah, If you are DIY'ing the amp.. I say you should DIY some t50rp's, but I'm just biased