[ADS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong Ah, let's all bask in the hate. Let's see, I walk, I swim, I admittedly don't have time to hit the weights. I don't often go over 1500 calories a day. I don't count calories, but it's tough to go over that, for me anyway. I won't go any less. I'm not into pain and suffering in the struggle for some image I don't care about anyway. Besides just killing myself so that society doesn't have to look upon my horrible self, what would you have me do? /and no, of course I don't dwell on these things, nor do I think badly of myself, but it's comments like that, that smack of pure hatred and stupidity. The mysteries of obsessity haven't all been answered yet. There's this whole balance between genetics, and metabolism and health, and how we were raised, and what we eat, and our lifestyles. There's no one answer that's right. It's the whole freaking package. Getting up and doing something is good advice for anyone with a reasonable level of health. But it may not magically make you thin. If you think that, then you're in for dissapointment.

I didn't mean to be insulting.

I have a hard time getting to the gym as well, and although I stay lean, it's more because of my body type and eating habits than any action on my part. I just don't think it's accurate to claim that obesity is not harmful.

 

[micaela]

I agree that age makes a big difference. My husband has always been a small guy -- pretty well muscled, but shorter than most. When he got to his 40's this little belly popped out that had never been there before!!! Since it will be at least ten or fifteen years before I get to my 40's

I can't compare men to women!! But I do believe that female physiology does lend itself to fat rearranging itself on the body! (At least thats what happened to me when I reached my 40's ---

)

Here, here Painsong!! I think you are pretty much right on!

 

[Scotty757]

I know it is a horribly complicated issue, but my firsthand experience leaves me with a pretty good outlook on these things.

Being a medical student in Houston (one of the fattest cities in the country) has been an interesting experience thus far. From the time I've spent in the hospital, the overwhelming number of cases of atherosclerosis, arteriosclerosis, congestive heart failure, diabetes, and acute MI (heart attack) have been in overweight persons.

Is this scientific, at all? No. I don't pretend to be. All I know is what I see.

 

[crazyfrenchman27]

Judging from the diabetes numbers, yes Houston, it is a problem.

Fortunately, I am a poor, starving grad student, so I will never have to consider obesity a potential problem.

-Matt

 

[swt61]

It's true in headphones too! My fat K340's can run circles around your skinny little PX 100's! And they've already lived 3 times the life expectancy of the skinny phones. How do you like them apples? Oops I mean french fries.

 

[gevorg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotoriousBIG_PJ They compare fat active people to skinny inactive people. Where is the comparison to skinny active people. 50 bucks says that site is run by a fat person. Biggie.

Great point!!

Although there are fat people who became fat due to health problems, most of them are fat because they're lazy and ignorant about their diet.

 

[VR6ofpain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by harkamus Seriously, it seems like Americans have a disease for everything. No offense to Americans. I live here too, you know. Hehe. As a kinesiologist major, I don't *believe* in obesity. It doesn't exist to me. What does exist to me are inactive, sedentary individuals.

Actually Europe has this same problem. I read an article about France being upset because their rate of obesity is also on the rise. They were all upset about it. No more French bread and cheese.

 

[harkamus]

Yea, but I don't think Europeans actually call it a disease.

EDIT: Never when I was there at least. BTW, I was born in Germany.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyfrenchman27 Judging from the diabetes numbers, yes Houston, it is a problem.

I only skimmed the thread, but this is very accurate. I don't even feel like pulling up numbers but NIDDM is much more common in obese people. And if you don't consider DM a risk to your long term health....well then....uhh....(retinopathy, neuropathies, microvascular damage, etc, etc, etc)

 

[plainsong]

I just love the opinions of the learned doctor and med school types, reciting what their text books tell them, and indeed having those opinions confirmed by what they see come through the doors on a daily basis. They're good with warning us about the consequences, but not so hot on the prevention. You tell me all the horrible stuff that is in store for me, but you have no answer for when I tell you my lifestyle is as healthy as the next person's.

You might tell me that all my doctors have been wrong, I'm not healthy, or you might say that obviously there's something else going on and I need to be poked and prodded and tested. What if I say I don't have time for that crap, and if it ain't broke then don't fix it. It's not like my weight can't descrease with more physical activity, but I either have to be at crazy levels of activity, or eating 100 calories a day, one of which isn't happening right now, and the other of which will never ever happen.

One doctor had this theory that perhaps you're less likely to have these problems if (and only if) you're otherwise fairly healthy, and if you've carried it most of your life. It was only an opinion though, based on what he's seen. Hardly fact, or hardly something to base your medical advice on.

I think that while living a healthy lifestyle is obviously a good idea, there's no blanket answer that will magically have everyone weighing 120lbs.

And if a site that questions medical authoritah is run by a fat person, then so the hell what? What does weight have to do with the validity of the opinion? You can point out a "fat" bias, but then again, thin bias is just ok.

edit - I just wanted to add here that this isn't based on my personal experience with doctors, as it's been largely positive. But you always hear about doctors with their own biases and hang-ups, and people are people, so it's not surprising when you read posts here by the more medical types, how judgemental they come across. I wouldn't want a doctor like that treating me for anything. When you're a doctor, someone comes to you for help, not for judgement. Whether the illness is a result of the patient's lifestyle or not, passing judgement and assigning blame won't make it magically go away. It just adds stress and resentment on both sides. If someone comes through your doors early enough, showing some warning signs, but open minded and treatable, then for heaven's sakes help them, don't judge them and talk slack about them once they leave. If someone comes in with some already advanced problems, then at least they're there. All you can do is treat them, try to point them on the right path, and hope they follow through. Sneering at them as they leave won't help any.

The reason I mention this is that it sounds like a lot of these obsese patients are being judged and condemmed the second they walk through the door, and yet you expect them to look the other way, not notice it, and do as they're told and come back next week having lost 200lbs. Don't you know this is why they avoid going to the doctor?? Who wants to go somewhere and be looked down upon, pre-judged, talked down to, and despised as soon as they walked in?

It must really add a lot of stress to an already stressful job to keep judging all your patients.

 

[gratefulshrink]

I've just skimmed the thread (and not read any links), and, by way of disclaimer, I also have the typical physician mindset.

When talking about risk factors for heart disease, for example, they are often divided into modifiable and non-modifiable risks. The former includes smoking, eating poorly, sedentary lifestyle, stress, etc., and the latter has more to do with heredity/genetics. It's always hard to separate out which discrete factors confer the greater risk, but modifying things as much as possible certainly makes a lot of common sense.

Obesity itself is complicated, and is also due partly to genetics, and partly to behavior (eating poorly, low exercise levels). Again, modifying that which is potentially changeable makes sense.

My two cents....

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by plainsong They're good with warning us about the consequences, but not so hot on the prevention.

This is really the nub of the problem. Society demonizes fat people (some of the responses in this thread being examples), and the healthcare system is designed to treat consequences, neither of which is a truly productive approach to dealing with the issue and maximizing overall public health.

Obesity is like a heavily damped industrial control theory problem; the body reaches a series of steady states, and it can be difficult to move to a different steady state without enormous effort, so prevention makes a lot more sense than ad hoc approaches to losing weight down the road.

Teenagers drink a lot more liquid calories (soft drinks) now than even 10 years ago, there is less phys ed. in the schools, parents are freaked out about predators and don't let their young kids play outside, and by the time they're older the kids tend to stick inside and play video games and IM their friends rather than being active. None of these factors is bad in and of itself, but together, they all contribute to slowly generating a problem.

 

[ken36]

Possibly a spinach only diet. Would do wonders.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink When talking about risk factors for heart disease, for example, they are often divided into modifiable and non-modifiable risks. The former includes smoking, eating poorly, sedentary lifestyle, stress, etc., and the latter has more to do with heredity/genetics. It's always hard to separate out which discrete factors confer the greater risk, but modifying things as much as possible certainly makes a lot of common sense. Obesity itself is complicated, and is also due partly to genetics, and partly to behavior (eating poorly, low exercise levels). Again, modifying that which is potentially changeable makes sense.

Now, that was an intelligent answer.

 

[alex_cs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hongda The issue is just mislabeled as Obesity Epidemic. It's more like an issue with inactivity. Combine this with unhealthy eating habits (high calorie, poor nutrition) and this GENERALLY leads to obesity. It doesn't mean all obese people are unhealthy or non-obese people are healthy.

well true, however being obese is not good. it places pressures on bones, joints, organs, that otherwise wouldnt be there. i dont tihnk you can live healthy long term and still remain obese. however you can be average weight and be healthy longterm if you know what i mean.