O2 AMP + ODAC
Mar 8, 2013 at 12:06 PM Post #1,066 of 5,671
Today I got my O2 + ODAC combo and with the low gain setting I'm very impressed but not with the high gain setting.
The music sounds a litte bit scratchy and distorted while using the high gain settings compared to the low gain setting by listening to the same volume level.

Low gain and maximum level (potentiometer at max level) -> no distortion
High gain and half level (potentiometer at half level) -> little bit of distortion

Do you picked up the same experiences by comparing the low and high gain settings ?

Headphone was my Beyer 880 (600 Ohm) and the O2 was driven by a power supply.


The ODAC's lineout is too high for the high gain setting (which is really for low-voltage sources such as ipods) and will clip, which is probably what you're hearing.the ODACi s pumping out plenty of voltage, so you shouldn't need the O2 on anything more than 2.5x unless you bypass the ODAC to play off your ipod.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 12:24 PM Post #1,068 of 5,671
The posting was in reference to an unrelated issue. It wasn't making a big deal of a small operation or where the parts came from; as far as I could see the poster was merely speculating.


Yep. My fault for speculating on that. I was responding to RustA's assertion that Mayflower is a "US company cooperating with JDS Labs."
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 12:25 PM Post #1,069 of 5,671
Thanks :)
And yes the low gain setting deliver more than enough power. It was only question whether my O2 is defect or not.
 
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 1:38 PM Post #1,070 of 5,671
Quote:
Thanks :)
And yes the low gain setting deliver more than enough power. It was only question whether my O2 is defect or not.

 
The behavior you describe is how the design works.  Some people might call the design defective (I would say: misconfigured), but your particular sample seems to be working to spec, as it should.
 
With the default gain levels set on the O2 (configurable by swapping a resistor for each of the  L and R channels), the high gain will clip any input of greater than roughly 7V / 6.5 = 1.08V (rms sine wave), where 6.5 is the default high gain, no matter what the O2's volume knob is set to.  ODAC line output is around 2V.  If you set full volume in software, you could well surpass 1.08V all the time with the right music.  Solution is to reduce the output level of the DAC or reduce the gain on the O2.
 
If low gain is good enough for you, then you can just keep using that and ignore the other setting.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 1:46 PM Post #1,071 of 5,671
yup, agree with that one Mike..
 
smily_headphones1.gif

 
Alex
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 2:13 PM Post #1,072 of 5,671
Thanks again for all the explanations.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 5:12 PM Post #1,073 of 5,671
Quote:
Today I got my O2 + ODAC combo and with the low gain setting I'm very impressed but not with the high gain setting.
The music sounds a litte bit scratchy and distorted while using the high gain settings compared to the low gain setting by listening to the same volume level.
 
Low gain and maximum level (potentiometer at max level) -> no distortion
High gain and half level (potentiometer at half level) -> little bit of distortion
 
Do you picked up the same experiences by comparing the low and high gain settings ?
 
Headphone was my Beyer 880 (600 Ohm) and the O2 was driven by a power supply.

 
Yep, the same over here.
As I mentioned above in this thread, I am using the unity gain (1x) on the ODAC 
with the Beyerdynamic Beyer 880 (250 Ohm; 2005 Edition).
(Last week the standalone ODAC and standalone O2 arrrived from JDS Labs.)
If it's quiet around me, the volume on the O2 is set at 9 o'clock.
If my surrondings are not very quiet  I set the volume  at 10 o'clock.
There's no need for higher gain in  my situation. - In my opinion the O2 is a very powerful amp indeed.
I've tried higher gain but the sound was not in the same league as when using the unity gain.
 
Also, I am lucky and happy that my new laptop does not cause any USB-related problems. - 
I am knocking on wood and touching wood  right now!
There's no whining, etc as some of you whined (ha, ha, ...) about.
So, I don't need a powered hub, but I am gonna get it
just for  sake of  experimentation/comparison.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 5:24 PM Post #1,074 of 5,671
Quote:
 
The behavior you describe is how the design works.  Some people might call the design defective (I would say: misconfigured), but your particular sample seems to be working to spec, as it should.
 
With the default gain levels set on the O2 (configurable by swapping a resistor for each of the  L and R channels), the high gain will clip any input of greater than roughly 7V / 6.5 = 1.08V (rms sine wave), where 6.5 is the default high gain, no matter what the O2's volume knob is set to.  ODAC line output is around 2V.  If you set full volume in software, you could well surpass 1.08V all the time with the right music.  Solution is to reduce the output level of the DAC or reduce the gain on the O2.
 
If low gain is good enough for you, then you can just keep using that and ignore the other setting.

This is an uncharted but very interesting territory for me.
 
Just out of curiosity, how can one
 
 
Quote:
 reduce the output level of the DAC?

 
I guess that one needs  to be a DIYer or an engineer who knows how to open the ODAC and to swap some resistors?
 
Obviously, in my case I am applying the second solution, namely using the O2's unity (1x) gain and it works fabulously.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM Post #1,075 of 5,671

Now, some of the faceplate options with others' branding on them really do look amateurish.  Actually, the writing style and grammar on the website don't exactly help either.
 
- The cost of having my own plates machined, milled and engraved is astronomical, and requires huge bulk orders. Currently, I have my own engraved acrylic front panels that come as stock with my units. I created that entire website, by myself, with the limited tools at hand, I am not a software engineer. Please point out any grammar imperfections on my website.
 
 
 
 
Quote:
It's a very minor and unimportant point, but I don't know why anybody would think that any of the builders are getting kits from JDSLabs or somewhere else.  It'd be cheaper to get the parts from one of the usual sources like Mouser, Digikey, etc.  It's about the same price if buying single-unit quantities, so of course if buying many more than that, you wouldn't be buying kits from somebody else.
 
I don't really see why the size of the operation is worth noting, either.  Regardless of who's stuffing boards, it's just one guy that designed the thing.  Support can be gotten here or any number of places.  Who cares?
 
 
That said, getting the boards from a 3rd party indicates that a builder's not making thousands of amps (or judges that the time, upfront investment, etc. are not worth it).  If you got a thousand boards made or so, it could be cheaper than buying them $6 each from JDSLabs.  To a smaller operation, a couple dollars saved per board is maybe not a huge deal when selling amps for $100+.
 
Now, some of the faceplate options with others' branding on them really do look amateurish.  Actually, the writing style and grammar on the website don't exactly help either.
 
 
Given the prices, I think more people should be buying from Mayflower.  It's just that JDSLabs already has name recognition and has a first-mover advantage.  They've got to be making around $100 per O2 sold (cost over materials, so not taking into account some maybe ~30 min build time, operational costs, etc.).  In any case, they seem to have secured enough funds to buy Voldemort's personal weapon of choice, a high-end dScope III audio analyzer (pricing something like $10k), according to the JDSLabs blog.  Good for them.

 
Mar 8, 2013 at 6:28 PM Post #1,076 of 5,671
Quote:
This is an uncharted but very interesting territory for me.
 
Just out of curiosity, how can one
 
 
Quote:
 reduce the output level of the DAC?

 
 
I guess that one needs  to be a DIYer or an engineer who knows how to open the ODAC and to swap some resistors?
 
Obviously, in my case I am applying the second solution, namely using the O2's unity (1x) gain and it works fabulously.

 
No, that's my bad.  I worded that poorly and confusingly.  I meant to limit the level output from the DAC, which is generally achieved by turning the volume down in software.  In other words, if all sound information is scaled down prior to being sent to the DAC, you'll never reach 0 dBFS (DAC full-scale output), so the output is effectively limited to a smaller range that won't cause clipping later in the signal chain.
 
I mentioned resistor swapping for the O2, not the ODAC.  You just need to replace two resistors with two others, by desoldering the ones in place and then soldering in the replacements.
 
Actually though, ODAC output level is configurable, so one could in theory do some resistor swaps for that as well.  The ES9023 DAC chip includes the line driver, and publicly-available information (I think to get more info, you need to be a designer who's using the chip) seems to indicate that the output level can be set with an external resistor value.  That said, changing surface-mount parts like the ODAC has is a whole lot more troublesome than through-hole components like the O2; documentation and calculations for everything are available for the O2, but not at all for the ODAC.  They're much smaller so more difficult to manipulate physically by hand.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Now, some of the faceplate options with others' branding on them really do look amateurish.  Actually, the writing style and grammar on the website don't exactly help either.
 
- The cost of having my own plates machined, milled and engraved is astronomical, and requires huge bulk orders. Currently, I have my own engraved acrylic front panels that come as stock with my units. I created that entire website, by myself, with the limited tools at hand, I am not a software engineer. Please point out any grammar imperfections on my website.
 

 
 
Yeah, doing faceplates would be expensive in any kind of smaller quantities.  I didn't suggest that you're doing anything that doesn't make sense.
 
I'm also more of a technical guy with spotty grammar, but seeing as you asked, I'll try to find a few issues.  I get the feeling like I'm probably making mistakes and putting a huge foot in my own mouth by doing so, but so be it.
 
 
 
Front page:
Whatever you are looking for in a hi-fi system; solid state amps to DAC's,  we have it.  ​
If you have a question, special request, or would like to get something personalized, head over to the contact page and shoot us a message.​

Shouldn't that be a colon or maybe em dash instead of the semicolon?  The slashes below are obviously intended and okay in that kind of writing.  Apostrophe after an abbreviation like DAC is a style issue gray area, so that's okay.  The second sentence has some bad parallelism, but this is also common in informal writing and speech.
 
Several pages mention the o2.  NwAvGuy always abbreviates it as O2, so that's what I would use.
 
 
 
    This design was made by nwavguy. It is the most clean and powerful headphone amp you can buy for under $300. If you google the amp or look in the DIY forum, you will find people raving about this headphone amp. It is really that good! I will be building each one by hand and testing them thoroughly. I use DD version op amps and all name brand components which are longer lasting and clean up the signal a bit.

 
>> no caps for nwavguy
>> no caps for google
>> what is "the DIY forum" and why are you talking about it?  DIY forums in general?
>> name brand is a compound adjective, should be name-brand
>> most styles have a comma before the which, I would think
 
Again, it's mostly style and not actual mistakes.  It's also mostly just my opinion.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 6:46 PM Post #1,077 of 5,671
Question for you guys. This is for a personal project outside of audio but it relates to the O2's potentiometer.
 
From the designer's part list for the O2, it uses an Alps RK09712200MC 10k potentiometer. The project I'm working on uses a regular 'ol 10k trimmer potentiometer, but I would like to put the finished product in a nice JDS Labs aluminum case. Would using the Alps pot instead of the trimmer work as a replacement?
 
Right now I'm just using one of these really cheap trimmer pots:

 
Mar 8, 2013 at 10:12 PM Post #1,078 of 5,671
Quote:
Question for you guys. This is for a personal project outside of audio but it relates to the O2's potentiometer.
 
From the designer's part list for the O2, it uses an Alps RK09712200MC 10k potentiometer. The project I'm working on uses a regular 'ol 10k trimmer potentiometer, but I would like to put the finished product in a nice JDS Labs aluminum case. Would using the Alps pot instead of the trimmer work as a replacement?
 
Right now I'm just using one of these really cheap trimmer pots:
[...img]

 
I'm not an experienced DIYer or really work with these things (read: I could well be way wrong), but on first glance there are some apparent differences:
 
1.  The 3006P there only has a single channel, whereas the RK097 has essentially two potentiometers controlled by a single knob.
2.  The 3006P has different pin layout and physical knob.
3.  Just in case you were being very specific with that image, that 202 at the end signifies 2 kohm resistance and you talked about 10 kohm (would be code 103).
4.  Unless I missed something, 3006P has a linear taper (resistance linear with respect to rotational distance); default O2 option uses a 15A taper for audio that is nonlinear.
 
Mar 8, 2013 at 10:16 PM Post #1,079 of 5,671
Quote:
Quote:
Question for you guys. This is for a personal project outside of audio but it relates to the O2's potentiometer.
 
From the designer's part list for the O2, it uses an Alps RK09712200MC 10k potentiometer. The project I'm working on uses a regular 'ol 10k trimmer potentiometer, but I would like to put the finished product in a nice JDS Labs aluminum case. Would using the Alps pot instead of the trimmer work as a replacement?
 
Right now I'm just using one of these really cheap trimmer pots:
[...img]

 
I'm not an experienced DIYer or really work with these things (read: I could well be way wrong), but on first glance there are some apparent differences:
 
1.  The 3006P there only has a single channel, whereas the RK097 has essentially two potentiometers controlled by a single knob.
2.  The 3006P has different pin layout and physical knob.
3.  Just in case you were being very specific with that image, that 202 at the end signifies 2 kohm resistance and you talked about 10 kohm (would be code 103).
4.  Unless I missed something, 3006P has a linear taper (resistance linear with respect to rotational distance); default O2 option uses a 15A taper for audio that is nonlinear.

Yeah that's what I found out from the "post pics of your build" thread. I guess I won't use a volume knob-like potentiometer since they're also pretty pricey (for the linear pots).
Thanks for the info though!
 
Mar 10, 2013 at 11:58 AM Post #1,080 of 5,671
This am I was looking for something to do in between cup of Joe 1 and cup of Joe 2 and hanging pictures for my wife and I said " Hey lets clip thos resistors and play with the unity gain setting"...
 
Voila...
 
I am listening to the LCD2's and going back anfd forth with unity and 2.5.gain.
 
With the LCD2's and 2.5x gain the volume control is set to around 11 o'clock and they are getting loud and coming alive...rather nicely.
 
With unity gain, the volume control is set to around 2-3pm top match the loudness.....
 
Even with unity gain this amp can drive LCD2's with authority....but I already knew that....
 
Al Stewarts ...Year of the Cat Album, "One Stage Before...absolutely 3D, liquidy and transparent.....running unity gain off of "pure DC" (that batteries for you in Rio Linda....lol)...
 
Gosh its really good...
 
Alex
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top