- Joined
- Aug 18, 2007
- Posts
- 17,452
- Likes
- 839
Over the past several years I've had the pleasure of beta testing numerous Nuforce products before they were released, as they like to get outside opinions from audiophiles and gear-heads to make sure they are meeting the needs of their target audience (and to make improvements if neccessary and/or possible within the design limitations). In most cases I have witnessed some very noticeable improvements with each new version prior to release (especially with the UF-30 and HDP).
So, this time I have a preproduction set of Primo 8 on loan here, which has the same internal components, cable, and same sound as the finalized version. While I have not listened to any very early alpha versions, I have spent the past few weeks with several late prototypes leading up to this final version, and Nuforce has made subtle improvements in rapid succession in response to beta and internal testing. Multi-driver BA IEM design is very complicated, and how the drivers work together and where they cross-over can affect the sound a lot. So, tuning them in small increments can be very difficult, yet they've managed to make them better where they needed to improve without hurting the sound in other areas.
There are not many of these final working samples out there right now, but they are close to a doing a pilot production batch for distributors to promote before mass production starts. Until then, I have to say that if you are planning to spend $400-500 on a high-end universal fit IEM in the next couple of months that you probably want to hold off on buying another brand until either I can post and/or we get some more reviews posted, or until you have a chance to try out the Primo 8 for yourself at an audio show or head-fi meet. These might be worth waiting for. In my case, the Primo 8 might be complimented by adding something like the Westone 3 as my "Fun" universal fit IEM, while using the Primo 8 for more serious listening. This is similar to how many audiophiles may use the HD800 for serious full-size headphone listening, but compliment it with the LCD-2 Rev2 when we want to party. i would not want to be without either one.
I honestly believe that the Primo 8 are exceptionally life-like sounding, especially for a universal fit IEM, making them a true audiophile universal fit IEM and a clear step up from what Nuforce has done in the past with their previous budget "best bang for the buck" portable earphones. I've owned many flagship universal fit IEM, and very few of them would I choose over the Primo 8, although there are a couple of them that I would like to add to the Primo 8, but NOT instead of the Primo 8. I usually find that there is one area or another that a universal fit IEM is lacking, making one a better choice for some people but not everyone. I will discuss this in comparison with many other universal fit IEM, to help you better gauge what you'd be getting with each of them that excels over the others, and where they don't.
SOUND - What I can tell you now is that none of my other universal fit IEM have as life-like midrange as the Primo 8, while they also offer a very fast and tight flat bass, and a crisp and detailed non-sibilant treble. Their sound is very energetic and exciting, without overblown bass that bleeds into the mids, nor too hot treble that could become fatiguing. They are certainly not a boring or dull mid-centric IEM by any definition. And while bass is very linear, flat, and deep, they would probably not be a bass-head's dream although they handle bass boost EQ and amping quite well (real bass-heads don't need to go with audiophile gear, since accuracy isn't their goal).
Most of my impressions and notes are very detailed but intended only for internal communication with Nuforce. I need a little bit of time to clean them up for public consumption, per se.
I know I'm leaving a lot of unanswered questions here, but rest assured that I am going to be posting more about the Primo 8 in the next few days, and I'll probably edit this first post with those updates. So stay tuned!
REVIEW IS NOW IN POST #3 BELOW
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696804/nuforce-primo-8-an-audiophile-phase-coherent-quad-balanced-armature-driver-iem-impressions#post_10099872
Here is some literature about them from Nuforce below - I'll add photos soon:
UPDATE 1/1/14
I'll be posting more impressions in the next couple of days, picking my impressions out of my volumes of feedback and comments that were sent to Nuforce while this was being developed. As Kenz said above, they're very surprising at how natural and transparent they sound.
I'll give away a little bit of my secrets right now before I post more detailed impressions - with what I remember off the top of my head. I was very surprised in finding that the Primo 8 can make my un-amped Westone 4 sound a little too laid-back and more veiled in direct comparison, similar to when comparing a more neutral and detailed HD 600 or HD 800 to the HD 650 which needs a more powerful amp to "wake up" and not sound dull. The RE-600 un-amped are even more laid back than W4, almost to the point of being dull in comparison. Things do improve when the W4 and RE-600 are amped.
Or, the comparison might be like comparing a HiFiMan HE-500 to an original LCD-2 rev1, where the LCD-2 rev1 is a bit more laid-back than HE-500 - the HE-500 and newer LCD-2 rev2 are just more vibrant, alive, and present with vocals and acoustic instruments (like Primo 8) than the HD650 or LCD-2 Rev1.
The Primo 8 sounds more alive than most universal fit IEM that I've tried. While the UM3X is closer, it's more forward sounding and less spacious sounding. I also find myself wanting more warmth from the UM3x with many amps or sources, but I don't find the Primo 8 lacking midrange warmth and fullness.
I get a similar vibe when comparing Primo 8 to an RE-600 that is not amplified. The RE-600 really need to be driven by the HM-901 balanced DAC/amp to shine and come close to the Primo-8. The W4 also wake up quite a bit with the HM-901, and sound very much like an amp'd RE-600 in that situation, but with the IPhone 5s or iPad Air headphone out the un-amped Primo 8 will excite me more.
A note on tips. I have been using Complys foam tips with the Primo 8, just like I do with Westone 3. I haven't tried other tips yet, but I do know the W3 frequency response can sound a lot more V-shaped with a vinyl tip, and more natural sounding with the Complys. I'll dig up some other tips for the Primo 8 to see how they handle that soon. Right now the Primo 8 and the Westone 3 complement each other perfectly when both are using the complies tips. I tend to prefer the W3 with older classic rock and the Primo 8 with jazz and acoustic, with a lot of overlap between the two with other genres.
Be back soon!
REVIEW IS NOW IN POST #3 BELOW
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696804/nuforce-primo-8-an-audiophile-phase-coherent-quad-balanced-armature-driver-iem-impressions#post_10099872
So, this time I have a preproduction set of Primo 8 on loan here, which has the same internal components, cable, and same sound as the finalized version. While I have not listened to any very early alpha versions, I have spent the past few weeks with several late prototypes leading up to this final version, and Nuforce has made subtle improvements in rapid succession in response to beta and internal testing. Multi-driver BA IEM design is very complicated, and how the drivers work together and where they cross-over can affect the sound a lot. So, tuning them in small increments can be very difficult, yet they've managed to make them better where they needed to improve without hurting the sound in other areas.
There are not many of these final working samples out there right now, but they are close to a doing a pilot production batch for distributors to promote before mass production starts. Until then, I have to say that if you are planning to spend $400-500 on a high-end universal fit IEM in the next couple of months that you probably want to hold off on buying another brand until either I can post and/or we get some more reviews posted, or until you have a chance to try out the Primo 8 for yourself at an audio show or head-fi meet. These might be worth waiting for. In my case, the Primo 8 might be complimented by adding something like the Westone 3 as my "Fun" universal fit IEM, while using the Primo 8 for more serious listening. This is similar to how many audiophiles may use the HD800 for serious full-size headphone listening, but compliment it with the LCD-2 Rev2 when we want to party. i would not want to be without either one.
I honestly believe that the Primo 8 are exceptionally life-like sounding, especially for a universal fit IEM, making them a true audiophile universal fit IEM and a clear step up from what Nuforce has done in the past with their previous budget "best bang for the buck" portable earphones. I've owned many flagship universal fit IEM, and very few of them would I choose over the Primo 8, although there are a couple of them that I would like to add to the Primo 8, but NOT instead of the Primo 8. I usually find that there is one area or another that a universal fit IEM is lacking, making one a better choice for some people but not everyone. I will discuss this in comparison with many other universal fit IEM, to help you better gauge what you'd be getting with each of them that excels over the others, and where they don't.
SOUND - What I can tell you now is that none of my other universal fit IEM have as life-like midrange as the Primo 8, while they also offer a very fast and tight flat bass, and a crisp and detailed non-sibilant treble. Their sound is very energetic and exciting, without overblown bass that bleeds into the mids, nor too hot treble that could become fatiguing. They are certainly not a boring or dull mid-centric IEM by any definition. And while bass is very linear, flat, and deep, they would probably not be a bass-head's dream although they handle bass boost EQ and amping quite well (real bass-heads don't need to go with audiophile gear, since accuracy isn't their goal).
Most of my impressions and notes are very detailed but intended only for internal communication with Nuforce. I need a little bit of time to clean them up for public consumption, per se.
REVIEW IS NOW IN POST #3 BELOW
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696804/nuforce-primo-8-an-audiophile-phase-coherent-quad-balanced-armature-driver-iem-impressions#post_10099872
Here is some literature about them from Nuforce below - I'll add photos soon:
Model Name: NuForce Primo 8 - MSRP $499
Full Product Name (for online store): NuForce Primo 8 Phase-Coherent Quad-Speaker Earphones
Slogan: Your Personal In-Ear High End Speaker System
When the goal is to replicate the sound quality of reference-class, multi-driver high-end speakers in your ear, the NuForce Primo No. 8 earphone stands well apart from the crowd. To achieve this elusive goal of breathtaking realism, explosive dynamic and natural sound, the Primo No. 8 embraces patent-pending technology to capture the best of both worlds: the coherence and seamlessness of a one-driver earphone, with the detail and transient speed of a balanced armature speaker array.
Balanced Armature Drivers:
Balance armature drivers deliver the highest efficiency of any in-ear speaker design available. NuForce has fitted the Primo No. 8 earpiece with four proprietary balanced armature speakers to form a unique 3-way design. Two units operate as one for bass frequencies, with one speaker each for the midrange and treble bands. With two speakers working in tandem to reproduce the lowest frequency ranges, the listener experiences the purest, most natural bass possible - in effect, doubling up on bass speakers reduces overall harmonic distortion by over 75 percent. The Primo No. 8’s swift, rock-solid bass operates as the foundation for dynamics heretofore available only in the most costly over-ear dynamic and electrostatic designs. Music lovers who have used balanced armature earphones will discover that the Primo No. 8 is far more refined and coherent than anything that they have ever experienced before. The Primo No. 8’s remarkable midrange resolution, clarity and neutrality are among its most distinctive features.
Patent-Pending Linear-Phase Crossover:
The graininess of other balanced armature earphone designs is often the result of crosstalk between drivers due to their crossover network’s inability to prevent overlapping. That is the achilles’ heel that plagues all other balanced armature earphones until now. In contrast, Primo No. 8's four-driver speaker array employs a crossover network that seamlessly distributes music’s frequency bands utilizing a proprietary first-order Butterworth filter design.
First-order Butterworth filter designs are not without its problems. It offers an often insurmountable challenge for home stereo speakers owing to the required power levels along with difficulties relating to off-axis performance and room interactions. As a consequence of an earphone’s far smaller size and implementation, these issues simply don’t apply. However, an obstacle that does stand in the way of the Butterworth filter used in earphones is, again, size – a lack of space for the crossover’s parts. Here’s where the Primo No. 8 shines. NuForce has addressed the size issue by developing a proprietary first-order Butterworth crossover network requiring fewer and smaller parts than ever offered before. The Primo No. 8’s proprietary crossover design has the earphone’s four speakers singing as one.
While the technology is far too complex to summarize here, the results are abundantly audible. Transient speed is incredible. Plucked strings take on an amazingly life-like presence. Vocalists sound as if they are there in the flesh. Percussion explodes in a truly three-dimensional sound field. The subtlest of details appear magical and the sound never fatigues. The audiophile can now enjoy the promise of a true linear-phase crossover design absent the drawbacks plaguing products that have employed these topologies in the past.
Proprietary Cable Design:
To achieve the Primo No. 8's unprecedented sound, nothing less than the best audio cable will do. There is more to the apparently smooth and lightweight cable than meets the eye. Inside this unique NuForce star-pattern Litz cable are several advanced technologies to achieve the most accurate sound reproduction possible.
For strain relief, typically a weak point of earphones, the Primo No. 8’s cable is built around a core of Kevlar Silk. This core is then surrounded by a star pattern of seven silver wires. A layer of insulation envelops the silver wires, which in turn is surrounded by another star-pattern of nine bundles of fine gauge, seven-stranded, individually insulated OFC wires – a technique called Litz construction. Litz cables, most often encountered in radio-frequency transmission technology, are especially effective in the delivery of high frequency signals. The entire cable assembly is jacketed in a pliable polymer to eliminate mechanical noise contamination. Taking cable design to its zenith, the Primo No. 8 employs isolated left and right ground wiring to reduce inter-channel crosstalk and maximize channel separation.
Maximum Noise Isolation:
A reference-level earphone requires ear tips that provide a good, solid seal, particularly important for good bass performance and privacy. Toward this end, the Primo No. 8 employs maximally effective Comply Isolation Foam tips.
The Final Word:
In capturing the best of both worlds – the coherence and seamlessness of a one-driver earphone, with the detail and transient speed only a balanced armature array can offer – the Primo No. 8’s innovation, performance and value are nothing short of unique. Having experienced the Primo No. 8, the listener will see that no detail has been overlooked. The NuForce Promo No. 8 earphones deliver the most natural sound that audio technology is capable of providing.
Additional Features:
Included with the Primo 8 are:
- Four (4) sizes (two pairs per size) of silicone ear tips
- Two (2) pairs of Comply Isolation foam ear tips
- A designer carrying case
- Two (2) sets of cables (with and without microphone)
- Cleaning cloth
- Cleaning tool
- 3.5mm to 6.5mm adapter
Selling Points- In-Ear Audiophile-Quality Speaker System: Four balanced-armature drivers in each earphone deliver a smooth, extended response, explosive dynamic realism and fatigue-free sound.
- Ideal Balance and Accuracy: A patent-pending three-way phase-coherent crossover design achieves perfect linear phase performance resulting in a natural, fully dimensional soundstage, lightning-fast transients and crystalline transparency.
- Breathtaking Realism: A captivating midrange and delicate highs envelop the listener in musical textures almost real enough to touch.
UPDATE 1/1/14
I'll be posting more impressions in the next couple of days, picking my impressions out of my volumes of feedback and comments that were sent to Nuforce while this was being developed. As Kenz said above, they're very surprising at how natural and transparent they sound.
I'll give away a little bit of my secrets right now before I post more detailed impressions - with what I remember off the top of my head. I was very surprised in finding that the Primo 8 can make my un-amped Westone 4 sound a little too laid-back and more veiled in direct comparison, similar to when comparing a more neutral and detailed HD 600 or HD 800 to the HD 650 which needs a more powerful amp to "wake up" and not sound dull. The RE-600 un-amped are even more laid back than W4, almost to the point of being dull in comparison. Things do improve when the W4 and RE-600 are amped.
Or, the comparison might be like comparing a HiFiMan HE-500 to an original LCD-2 rev1, where the LCD-2 rev1 is a bit more laid-back than HE-500 - the HE-500 and newer LCD-2 rev2 are just more vibrant, alive, and present with vocals and acoustic instruments (like Primo 8) than the HD650 or LCD-2 Rev1.
The Primo 8 sounds more alive than most universal fit IEM that I've tried. While the UM3X is closer, it's more forward sounding and less spacious sounding. I also find myself wanting more warmth from the UM3x with many amps or sources, but I don't find the Primo 8 lacking midrange warmth and fullness.
I get a similar vibe when comparing Primo 8 to an RE-600 that is not amplified. The RE-600 really need to be driven by the HM-901 balanced DAC/amp to shine and come close to the Primo-8. The W4 also wake up quite a bit with the HM-901, and sound very much like an amp'd RE-600 in that situation, but with the IPhone 5s or iPad Air headphone out the un-amped Primo 8 will excite me more.
A note on tips. I have been using Complys foam tips with the Primo 8, just like I do with Westone 3. I haven't tried other tips yet, but I do know the W3 frequency response can sound a lot more V-shaped with a vinyl tip, and more natural sounding with the Complys. I'll dig up some other tips for the Primo 8 to see how they handle that soon. Right now the Primo 8 and the Westone 3 complement each other perfectly when both are using the complies tips. I tend to prefer the W3 with older classic rock and the Primo 8 with jazz and acoustic, with a lot of overlap between the two with other genres.
Be back soon!
REVIEW IS NOW IN POST #3 BELOW
http://www.head-fi.org/t/696804/nuforce-primo-8-an-audiophile-phase-coherent-quad-balanced-armature-driver-iem-impressions#post_10099872