[DemonicLemming]

Hm, if amps do absolutely nothing other than increase volume (the old "wire with gain" theory), you may want to let all those guys with high-end amps know that they wasted a whole bunch of money.  In this case, I daresay real-world experience easily trumps ill-understood pseudo-science.
 
More on-topic, I'd suggest using a different source - something with a dedicated headphone output - and different music, to see if the same issue is reproduced.  First thing I would think is the noise floor on the source is high enough to be audible, and this could be easily confirmed or denied by not playing music, turning the volume way up, and listening for hissing. 
 
Quote:

what you are describing is damping factor. the amount of current an amp can provide has absolutely nothing to do with damping factor. in fact, you can get near perfect damping factor without even using an amp, just short out a speakers terminal. science buddy, science. without it your claims mean nothing. you are just throwing random theories out there. also you do realize 90dB from an ipod is consuming the exact same amount of amp power as 90dB from a stand-alone amp?  lets say you have an amp capable of delivering 30mw into your phones, and then an ipod capable of delivering 10mw. lets say it takes 2-4mw to reach a loud volume (which is usually the case, most of the power in your amps goes unused except for large dynamics even then you arent going to use more then maybe 8mw at an extremely loud volume) at the exact same volume whether or not you are using an amp or not the phones are going to draw the same amount of current. no more, no less. if an amp runs out of power to drive the headphones at a particular volume it will go into clipping, which is very audible. the only purpose of using an amp is because most amps will provide a much higher voltage then an ipod or computer and therefore can overcome the high resistance (impedance) of certain phones.
 
oh and btw, the magnet has nothing to do with the drivers mass as it is not even connected to the diaphragm. 


 

 

 

[mikeaj]

No, there's more difference than that, though the difference between different properly-designed amps (integrated or not) intending to be neutral and running within their capabilities is often exaggerated.  The issue is that many integrated amps with certain headphones will not be running within their capabilities or without some other audible problem, at least in certain conditions. The most obvious examples are inefficient 600 ohms phones needing a lot of voltage to reach something like a 100 dB peak, that an integrated amp can't supply. Or maybe running a low-impedance load with highly varying impedance over frequency out of a source with high output impedance, which is a scenario that's also mentioned somewhere in that site.
 
You don't need to read pseudo-science. 
 
Quote:

Hm, if amps do absolutely nothing other than increase volume (the old "wire with gain" theory), you may want to let all those guys with high-end amps know that they wasted a whole bunch of money.  In this case, I daresay real-world experience easily trumps ill-understood pseudo-science.
 
More on-topic, I'd suggest using a different source - something with a dedicated headphone output - and different music, to see if the same issue is reproduced.  First thing I would think is the noise floor on the source is high enough to be audible, and this could be easily confirmed or denied by not playing music, turning the volume way up, and listening for hissing. 
 

 

 

[yepimonfire]

Quote:

Hm, if amps do absolutely nothing other than increase volume (the old "wire with gain" theory), you may want to let all those guys with high-end amps know that they wasted a whole bunch of money.  In this case, I daresay real-world experience easily trumps ill-understood pseudo-science.
 
More on-topic, I'd suggest using a different source - something with a dedicated headphone output - and different music, to see if the same issue is reproduced.  First thing I would think is the noise floor on the source is high enough to be audible, and this could be easily confirmed or denied by not playing music, turning the volume way up, and listening for hissing. 
 


 

well, if you have a desktop setup then obviously you didnt waste money on it because you obviously need an amp to drive them now dont you? or, if you have high impedance phones that an ipod or computer cannot drive then obviously not.
 


Quote:

Gee thx, Tyll had a nice article about damping factor this month.  This just shows you either didn't read or understand what I said.  I never said that did I.  The size and capability of a magnet are crucial for the articulation of a speaker driver.  What do you think makes a cone or woofer move?  No point in continuing on when people debate their own preconceptions and fail to engage your points.  For you a speaker is either on or off, loud or not.  That's very simplistic.  Saves you lots of money, congratulations.  It's nice that you know Ohm's law but it doesn't sound like you understand how a speaker works.  You can continue your dialogue w/ someone else if you like.  Cheers.
 

you said "The larger the driver, the larger the magnet, the more power it needs to do its job WELL." if you knew anything about magnets and electro magnetism you would know a larger magnet would have more force behind it and therefore be more efficient. also, as driver size increases efficiency because the drivers can move more air. i have never said a speaker is "on or off" "loud or not" you are, in an attempt to make me out to be an idiot, taking things i say and making them what they are not. i am still waiting for you to provide me with scientific data to prove all the BS you keep claiming, i have provided plenty, you haven't provided any. this whole "real world experience" vs science argument is comical, unfortunately for you and many others on this forum our world is governed by scientific laws that are unchanging. someone needs to put an end to this placebo-based "audiophool" sorcery based crap going around on this forum. might as well be me. when you provide me with REAL data then i will believe all of these things you keep claiming. unfortunately for you i know how speakers and headphones, and the electrical principles behind them, work. heck, i have built them before. you may THINK you do but judging based on what you have said so far you obviously don't. both headphones and speakers are much simpler then you would like to believe they are. do some real research please, then we can talk.
 

 

[ColdEars]

Actually, it is a hiss sound! I'll try something digital.

So, assuming that it actually WAS my music, the problem was that:
A) I'm cranking the volume too much and my iPod's being pushed too hard and
B) That's just the way it was recorded?

 

[yepimonfire]

probably B, if you have the volume as loud as it would take to drive it into clipping number one it would certainly not be a hiss sound, it would sound like nails on a chalk board. and not during quiet passages either.

 

[DemonicLemming]

I do have cans efficient enough to drive from my laptop sound card or my HTC...funny thing is, they sound a lot better running on a decent amp, even though both my phone and laptop are "sufficient" to drive them properly.
 
Have you made a thread in the amp section telling everyone they're wasting money for buying expensive amps, when most cans don't need them and all amps do is increase the raw volume for in efficient cans?
 
Quote:

well, if you have a desktop setup then obviously you didnt waste money on it because you obviously need an amp to drive them now dont you? or, if you have high impedance phones that an ipod or computer cannot drive then obviously not.
 

 

 

[yepimonfire]

Quote:

I do have cans efficient enough to drive from my laptop sound card or my HTC...funny thing is, they sound a lot better running on a decent amp, even though both my phone and laptop are "sufficient" to drive them properly.
 
Have you made a thread in the amp section telling everyone they're wasting money for buying expensive amps, when most cans don't need them and all amps do is increase the raw volume for in efficient cans?
 


 

 

 

[DemonicLemming]

Glad you finally get it. 
 
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[yepimonfire]

i wish you WOULD get it.

 

[DemonicLemming]

I do get it.  You said amplifiers do nothing but increase the volume of inefficient headphones (re: "and just how exactly does an amp have any effect on how it sounds? an amplifier provides power, more power=higher volume, nothing else.").  You're wrong about amplifiers being nothing but the "wire with gain" theory, and you're wrong that headphones efficient enough to be properly driven from a cell phone or an onboard sound card wouldn't sound any different if driven from a good amp.
 
That's really all there is to it.
 
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i wish you WOULD get it.

 

 

[yepimonfire]

well, so far i have given you scientific proof as to why my "theory" holds true, so far you just keep stating your theory without evidence. nuff said.

 

[DemonicLemming]

You haven't given any "proof" other than repeating some ill-understood generalities about drivers.
 
I guess if you were right, then my $15 Fiio E3 would sound as good as my $450 Lyr, and as good as some of the multi-thousand-dollar amps, right?
 
In theory, yes, all an amplifier does is increase the available voltage and current.  In the real world, how the amp is built and designed has a large impact on how it colors headphones.
 
I'm a structural guy, not an electrical one, but I know, for a fact, than when I plug a set of headphones like my HFI-780s into my laptop sound card, there's enough power for them to be properly amplified to a sound level far above what I can tolerate.  I also know, for a fact, that plugging them into different amps changes their sound signature somewhat.  According to your theory, those headphones should sound the exact same no matter where I plug them in, assuming that there's enough power to adequately drive them.
 
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well, so far i have given you scientific proof as to why my "theory" holds true, so far you just keep stating your theory without evidence. nuff said.

 

 

[yepimonfire]

an amplifier shouldn't be coloring the signal. most SS amp don't. IIRC that lyr is a tube amp, tube amps can and do color sound so of course the E3 is not going to sound the same being it is a SS amp.

 

[Jae304]

I have to agree with Demonic COMPLETELY.  My D2K's sound fine running off my ipod but sound so much cleaner and responsive running off the receiver in my living room.  Less hiss, better bass and cleaner highs.  A better quality, more powerful amp will definitely allow your headphones to live up to their potential.

 

[reedzkee]

Its this simple: If you are running straight from an iPod and you have the volume at almost max, its going to distort. No ifs and or buts about it. The amp in the ipod just doesn't cut it.
 
If you had an amp, and had the volume on the ipod all the way up, it would still be distorted.
 
If you had an amp, and put the ipod volume at HALF, then you could get the same amplitude to your headphones distortion free (ultimately much louder)
 
Same thing in your car. Turn the volume down on the ipod, and turn up the actual dial. No more bass distortion.
 
Sounds like you want to listen louder (and cleaner) than the ipod can handle. Get an amp. I don't think its the recordings.