[anthonyhong]

Actually I know quite well . In the span of 48 hours I went from researching how to recable some earbuds to how to recable headphones to buying a new headphone off a Head Fi member specifically to take apart and play with and damn now I am looking at DIY!

Probably not the most conventional introduction, but it is what it is

.

Anyways, I've spent all day reading the Post pics of your builds thread, starting from the most current down to page 120. By tonight I will be done

. Now I am inspired, I want to build some things!

But this is where I need some help. Due to my hasty introduction to the world of fancy audio I am certain there are some really important details I've just brushed aside. I guess I'll start with what I want to do.

Looking at AMB setups, I've decided I want to build the M3 portable headphone amp, the bigger M3 sterio headphone amp and the Sigma 11 power supply. I've got a good handle on building stuff, just not audio stuff- this would be my first audio related project(s). I was wondering if anyone could shed light on the cost of all this, either each individual project or the cumulative sum. How do these DIY amps compare to commercial products?

And lastly, I would like them to match, I hate to admit it but a major pull into audio equipment for me was the awesome, sexy clean enclosures, knobs, connectors, and oh the cable pr0n. What would Head Fi recommend as an acceptable, cheaper and well built enclosure? I liked the Hammond look mostly, cept the textured extruded barrel portion of the case bugged me.

I'll prob have a lot more questions soon, but for now, thanks so much!

Anthony

 

[digger945]

Parmetal

 

[Joannha98]

Nice post!

 

[oneplustwo]

Anthony,

I went down a similar path. From a semi-impulsive purchase of my Senns, to building a few Cmoys, mini3, gamma1, millet minimax, M3 with S11, B22 with S22, and now waiting on the Buffalo DAC in a matter of a few months.

Anyway, to answer your questions,
1. The costs are pretty well documented and the consensus is that all the items you mention will perform very well compared to their commercial counterparts. My guess is the mini3, M3, and S11 will cost you about $400-$500 in parts alone depending on your configuration.

2. I like the Hammond cases for the smaller projects because they're relatively cheap and easy to work with. I have three parmetal 20-series cases waiting to be filled with my balanced B22, PSU, and DAC. These are relatively inexpensive as well and decent quality. My reco would be to go ahead and stick with the Hammonds for the projects you mentioned though.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your head-fi journey!

 

[Uncle Erik]

If you really get into this, you can build cases from scratch. I like to work with aluminum - you only need a drill, jigsaw, square, scribe, and autocentering punch to lay out and build from pieces of aluminum. You can get all sorts of useful offcuts and scraps off eBay and at local machine/metal shops. Sometimes, they'll have offcuts the perfect size for an amp that you can get for a few bucks.

Also, you can repurpose cases. If there are salvage yards, electronics surplus, etc. types of stores nearby, you can always grab old test equipment and other stuff, gut it, and put your own work inside.

As for the quality of DIY projects, I think they're better than many commercial designs. Commercial designs are usually designed by one person and the design is kept private. Some very talented designers come up with wonderful things, but DIY is completely open. If there is a problem with a circuit, or something that can be tweaked to make it better, it happens. When the design is open to everyone, revisions and fixes are submitted to the designer and problems get hashed out in the discussion forums.

The result is that you have much, much more thoroughly tested and vetted designs than with almost any commercial offering. You've had hundreds of knowledgeable geeks go through it, while commercial designs just have one or two people go through them.

 

[anthonyhong]

Excellent guys, thanks so much for the response.

digger945, any recommendations for something a bittt cheaper?

Joannha98,

oneplustwo, that was exactly what I wanted to hear

. 400 to 500 or so actually sounds a bit steep for me, might just do one project at a time, but I guess thats just a damn good way to rack up the shipping costs! I guess I will stick the the hammond then, it isn't bad looking at all, I just wish I had some proper tools to machine metal, but I guess not too many would anyways, those of you who do- I am envyous

.

Uncle Erik, eventually I would love to have myself a decent collection of tools, and learn the skills to work with materials to make cases and all, but that might just be a bit too foreward thinking atm. I've gotta learn the basics with audio equip first! Up until a year ago, I actually had a stock of old equipment, I never saw myself geting into audio work so I gave them away... I guess I better keep an eye out for more! And wow your point about the DIY projects, I never thought of it that way, that just makes me love the whole DIY-thing more.

And another question for you guys. One thing I am very interested with with expensive high end audio equipment is actually testing the stuff. More than just 'what I heard' is there any real emperical way to compare this stuff?

So far in the equalizing headphone thread I learned about pink noise and all, where else can I read up on similarmaterial? I would start google'ing but I dont know what to google for

 

[digger945]

I haven't found anything cheaper than the parmetal that suites me and looks easier to work with.
I think UncleErik's idea may be a better choice for you maybe. Harbor Frieght is a good place to maybe get some tools cheap. I personally find some nice stuff at the local pawn shops, where I am familiar and can talk the price down some.

Most diy amp designs I have seen here have been tested already and have graphs or number to show how they perform. The most expensive test lab is right between your ears

I know absolutely nothing about pink noise, is that a punk band.

 

[El_Doug]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyhong /img/forum/go_quote.gif And another question for you guys. One thing I am very interested with with expensive high end audio equipment is actually testing the stuff. More than just 'what I heard' is there any real emperical way to compare this stuff? So far in the equalizing headphone thread I learned about pink noise and all, where else can I read up on similarmaterial? I would start google'ing but I dont know what to google for

check ebay for an oscilloscope

 

[anthonyhong]

I've got a scope

 

[Jambo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonyhong /img/forum/go_quote.gif And another question for you guys. One thing I am very interested with with expensive high end audio equipment is actually testing the stuff. More than just 'what I heard' is there any real emperical way to compare this stuff?

The industry standard equipment for measuring audio performance (THD, SNR that sort of thing) is made by Audio Precision, you're looking at 10s of $k's though for one of them. People have come up with various methods using their PC sound cards, but they're inherently limited by the performance of the sound card, which is rarely all that good. So, really for DIY you're pretty much limited to computer simulations of the design, and trusting the specs of the parts you're using etc.

 

[rds]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jambo /img/forum/go_quote.gif The industry standard equipment for measuring audio performance (THD, SNR that sort of thing) is made by Audio Precision, you're looking at 10s of $k's though for one of them. People have come up with various methods using their PC sound cards, but they're inherently limited by the performance of the sound card, which is rarely all that good. So, really for DIY you're pretty much limited to computer simulations of the design, and trusting the specs of the parts you're using etc.

Couldn't you "zero" a sound card by looping back the output with nothing in the signal path, then record these results and subtract them from measurements with something in the signal path?

 

[Vizzini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rds /img/forum/go_quote.gif Couldn't you "zero" a sound card by looping back the output with nothing in the signal path, then record these results and subtract them from measurements with something in the signal path?

RightMark Audio Analyzer (RMAA) is an excellent (and free) software package for testing audio equipment using a Windows PC. You are, of course, limited by the quality of the soundcard used, but there are several inexpensive external "soundcards" (like the M-Audio Transit) good enough to produce high quality results.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Working aluminum really doesn't cost that much. I've had success with a couple of nearly finished projects. I just keep getting stuck in the office on evenings and weekends. Hopefully, I can finish out two aluminum point-to-point tube amps over the summer.

You can get a used hand drill cheap, preferably corded. Replace the brushes and cord and you'll get years more out of it. I've found old drills as low as $15-$25. Jigsaws can be a little more; I bought a Bosch for about $150, but you can find others for a lot less. You can get a sqare and scribe for a few bucks, or make your own scribe from a sharpened nail. An autocentering punch is about $10. You'll need a set of files, but those are cheap.

Simply, use the square and scribe to lay out all your cuts and holes on the aluminum. Where scribe lines intersect you put the autocentering punch down and make a ding. Then drill a pilot hole through the ding before using bigger bits. This way, you can make holes line up precisely along your scribe line. It sounds more complicated than it actually is - if you saw someone do this you'd pick it up in a minute.

Also, I've found it helpful to plan the layout right on the aluminum with a permanent marker. You can put parts on it, figure out where everything fits and make a rough layout. Then go back with the square, scribe and punch to make neat rows and precise marks.

The jigsaw and drill will leave things ragged so clamp the piece into a vise and go over it with the files. A long (12+ inches) file is great for flattening and smoothing the long sides of something. Work it over with sandpaper on a block after filing and you'll have a smooth, flat and very professional looking surface.

For final finishing, I've wet sanded the aluminum through 2,000 grit and then rubbed it out with an aluminum polish I got at PepBoys. It's not the kind of mirror polish commercial polishers do, but it has a nice, shiny almost antique look to it. I like it. You could also use sandpaper to put a brushed finish on. One user here puts Naval Jelly on aluminum and lets it sit for a few days. Tye acid slightly eats away at the aluminum and leaves a nice matte finish. I haven't tried that, but plan to.

But give it some thought. It's cheaper than buying a case and you can make it exactly how you want.

 

[aloksatoor]

my path would be I started to make a wood carved case for an iphone from that to recabling denon d1001 and then jumped to the amb b22 and later recable k701s

the b22s been one of the most satisfyin projects ever!!!

and yeah aluminum is quite easy to work with..... i used a cheap harbour freight drill press with metal files, thread taps, a decent vise, a sharpie with t squares and a digital calliper .... thats all it took......

 

[anthonyhong]

Some really great response, I've got a lot to read up on, but maybe I'll start with getting a really nice sound card then

. I would like some enlightenment how I would apply a scope to testing audio equipment. I have an idea, but some reading would be great

.

Uncle Erik, wow thank you for the tip, when I actually go to put together an enclosre I'll be PM'ing you for helps

. I need to work on my tools first. I've got a pretty decent hand drill, set of drill bits/ other spinning things that put holes in things/ make bigger holes/ grind (sorry bout my terminology here ). Would it be worthit for me to get a drill press too?

@ aloksatoor, I guess it would be a good investment!

The reason why I am so concerned about testing is I like numbers I like seeing solid no- bs- no placebo shizz, I want to know the differences in products/ builds/ arrangement of equipment. I think your signature sums it up best Uncle Erik. But in the mean time, I'lll be starting on my M3

edit: PS something i've done in the past: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5697198-post5029.html
As you can see my metal work could use quite a bit of improvement .