[clarke68]

Finally getting around to posting some impressions. This was my first meet, and I had a ton of fun! I came home gibbering like a little kid the whole rest of the night. I know we all love great sound, but headphones tend to be a solo sport...the meet reminded me that everything in life is more fun with other people involved.

Every person I interacted with helped make the event successful, but I gotta throw down a few special thanks:

Gundam91 - thanks for finding the location, and thanks to your cousin for her hospitality and great tea!

ayt999 - just by bringing your gear you probably worked harder than anyone to make the meet happen. Thanks for your generous, community spirit!

NeilPeart - the video above says it all, you're one of those 'life of the party' types that could probably make standing in line at the DMV fun. Thanks for your warm-hearted enthusiasm!

Amb, Morsel, and Xin - awesome to have a knowlegable engineer contingent in the house, your presence was refreshing and fascinating!

Lots of other people I'd rather not name just because I'm sure I'll forget someone and I don't want anyone to feel left out. If you talked to me at all, I thought you were cool and I probably learned something from you.

Gear impressions are coming next, as soon as I have time!

 

[clarke68]

Meet Impressions - Gear
Turns out, meets are better places to meet people than they are to listen critically to anything. I still had a great time musically, but now I know what people mean when they talk about auditioning gear 'under meet conditions' - lots of background noise that make subtle differences difficult to spot. The impressions I formed are meet impressions only...I wouldn't trust them alone to make any serious purchasing decisions. However, on the flip side, I assume that any gear that stood out as markedly different or improved in a meet would radically stand out in a proper listening environment.

That said, one thing I'm sure of is that the gold medal, blue ribbon, 'best in show' award goes to ayt999's Accuphase/Blue Hawaii/Orpheus combo. It instantly took my breath away in an almost magical way. Nothing struck me about its tonal character, detail level, lush warmth or analytic whatever, it just oozed pure music. I didn't try it with anything other than operatic female vocals (something off the Burmeister demo cd, and a stunning Renee Fleming SACD that episiarch brought). Music that seemed well suited to its charms, so it may not the funky head-bopper that I want for my day-to-day system, but even the most elite wine connoisseur doesn't want to drink a premier cru every day. Having 'good' day-to-day helps you truly appreciate 'great' when it comes around. If I had the time, I would have loved to try it with something by Arlid Anderson, Tomasz Stanko, or heck any ECM release for that matter.

[size=xx-small]There's probably $10,000 in headphones alone in this picture, and that doesn't begin to count the gear feeding them.[/size]

I barely spent any time at all with the Audio-Technica AT-DHA3000/ATH-L3000 combo...it didn't blow me away at the time, but I think I was still under the spell of the Orpheus combo next door. Thinking back on it, it was a very nice system, one that probably would have shone a lot brighter in a different context.

I can safely say that I am not a Sony guy. I found both the Qualia and R10 harsh and sibilant...I even enjoyed my own HD-580s as well as the R10s coming out of the Gilmore Balanced Reference. Different strokes for different folks, I guess, as Sly Stone once said.

I spent a little time A/B testing the new 'M-cubed' with Xin's Supermacro. Kind of an odd test, considering the M3's raison d'etre is to eliminate all compromises to portability (according to Morsel). I found the Supermacro a bit more sibilant and edgy in the highs, but other than that it held up well, which is outstanding for an amp that sells, fully built, for about the same price as you can DIY an M3 and is the size of a postage stamp (okay, maybe 4 postage stamps, but you get the idea). It didn't occur to me at the time, but I would have loved to A/B the M3 with my Gilmore Lite. Visually speaking, Amb gets mad props for the outstanding casework on the M3...those acrylic front panels are seriously RoXoR!

[size=xx-small]Rockin' casework on the M-cubed![/size]

I was thrilled with all the DACs that came, especially having the chance to pit the hotly debated Benchmark DAC1 and the Bel Canto DAC2 in a head-to-head celebrity deathmatch! What I found is that it's really hard to pick out differences between digital sources using fast A/B switching. I mean really hard. Especially at a meet. When you do find differences, they're best described in subjective terms like "more musical" or "less involving". I had Fiddler build a custom Quintete Switchbox with volume attenuation on two of the inputs, so sources can be accurately level matched. Plus, the Quintete selector switches operate almost completely silently. The absense of such "cheater clues" make blind testing with it unforgivingly fair.

Darned if I could even tell when the source was switched between the Benchmark and the Bel Canto, at least with Beyers out of the Gilmore Lite. With Audio-Technicas (A900s I think) and a PPA I think I might have been able to detect a difference, but it was the opposite of what everyone says about these two units, the Bel Canto seemed a little tighter and more crisp, in a good way. If I had to pick a favorite based on Saturday I'd say the Bel Canto, but for me the contest was really a draw, awaiting a rematch in quieter environs.

Differences between the Bel Canto and my own Rotel RDP-980 were easier to spot, but still very subtle. I preferred the Bel Canto, I found it (you guessed it) "more musical", but considering they sell used for 4x what I paid for my Rotel, it should be!

[size=xx-small]Benchmark DAC1/Bel Canto DAC2 Smackdown, courtesy of a custom-built FidAudio Quintete Switcher and 'voodoo wire' interconnects.[/size]

The big headphone surprise for me were NeilPeart's Beyer DT 770-80s. The bass on those things kicked my butt clear across the floor! I can't remember if I had 'em hooked to my Gilmore Lite, the PPA, or just straight into a Benchmark, but they got me groovin' to Medeski, Martin & Wood's End of the World Party big time (thanks raif!). Possibly the most fun I had all day, they may well be the next phones I pick up.

I was also very impressed by the HD-650s. There were a bunch floating around, but they first one that really caught my ear was running via Cardas cable off Lindrone's WooAudio1 and Utep10's Pioneer Elite (a stellar CD player, btw, a nice surprise to finally try the 'Stable Platter Mechanism' in person!). It had the smooth spaciousness that I like about the HD-580s but are punchy and groovy at the same time. For the money, I think I'd still rather have a few pairs of less expensive 'phones that cover the extremes a little better, but if I could only have one, I'd say the 650s may well be the world's best all-arounder, at least in dynamic 'phones.

I didn't spend nearly as much time as I wanted with AKG 'phones. I pretty much agree with everything that has been said about NeilPeart's K1000s...definitely need a follow-up audition on those. I really liked the sound of the K-501s coming out of Strogg's 5.8GHz aquarium and home brew tube amp, but I'd need more time to really form an opinion about them. Seems like they could be a nice compliment to my (still favorite) SR-225s.

All in all, a very enjoyable day. Thanks again, everyone, for bringing your gear and your passion to San Mateo!

 

[ayt999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 [size=xx-small]There's probably $10,000 in headphones alone in this picture, and that doesn't begin to count the gear feeding them.[/size]

it's actually more than that. (yes, I'm only counting the headphones.)

as for the music in the DP-85, I really should get some nice SACD recordings since those are much better than playing CD's in it. even with CD's the DP-85 sounds very good, but SACD's make it sound so much better. good thing others brought along SACD's.

 

[eweitzman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 I didn't try it with anything other than operatic female vocals ... a stunning Renee Fleming SACD that episiarch brought.

I brought this SACD. (Perhaps episiarch brought a copy too?) It is the best digital recording I have yet heard. The performance is amazing too. Renee Fleming can turn opera haters into opera lovers.

- Eric

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayt999 it's actually more than that. (yes, I'm only counting the headphones.)

Ooooh yes indeed... any two of those headphone on that table would've combined for about $6000~$9000... all of them together.. wham!

 

[utep10]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier was that I also enjoyed Lindrone's Sony/HR2 setup with my HD650/Cardas phones. My earlier impressions of the HR2 was that it was too dark for me but the Sony really complements the HR2 well.

 

[eweitzman]

Now that I've read up on some of the phones that were at the meet, I'm fascinated by the $399 Sony MDR-CD3000. I put them in the same class as the R10, 010, and HE90 costing 10-20x as much. Do those "woodies" cost $3600?

- Eric

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eweitzman I brought this SACD. (Perhaps episiarch brought a copy too?)

I'm somewhat of a flunkie at names...I've been getting you two confused for weeks now. I thought I had it all sorted out after meeting you both at the meet (at least, I think I met you both...

). Either way, it is indeed an amazing recording...one that's hitting my Amazon wish list soon!

 

[kramer5150]

Sounds like a fun get together.... I wish I were in town this weekend. Would have LOVED to meet you all!!!

Garrett

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eweitzman Now that I've read up on some of the phones that were at the meet, I'm fascinated by the $399 Sony MDR-CD3000. I put them in the same class as the R10, 010, and HE90 costing 10-20x as much. Do those "woodies" cost $3600? - Eric

The modified Sony MDR-CD3000, if everything is gotten new & first hand, will run you about $600~$700 depending on the option of cable length I think. Of course if you get an used CD3000 and modify that, you might be able to save up to $100, since used CD3K goes for about $300 here on the forum.

I wouldn't put them in the same class with R10, 010 and HE90 though. Although.. I do prefer my woody CD3K over the R10 for certain reasons. I haven't really had time to formulate my thoughts and put it down on paper. I'll probably do that sometime later today.. or this week.. or whenever

 

[eweitzman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindrone I wouldn't put them in the same class with R10, 010 and HE90 though.

Perhaps not, but under "meet conditions", I did. Quote:

Although.. I do prefer my woody CD3K over the R10 for certain reasons. I haven't really had time to formulate my thoughts and put it down on paper. I'll probably do that sometime later today.. or this week.. or whenever

That would be great.

 

[raif]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eweitzman Perhaps not, but under "meet conditions", I did.

Under "meet conditions", the k501 sounded similiar to the orpheus.

Not trying to knock the cd3k, if it isolated even in the slightest degree, lindrone's pair might have been sitting on my head right now.(I almost bought them when the original owner was selling them)

Lindrone,
You definitely win the "looks absolutely nothing like I pictured" award for this meet.

 

[lindrone]

Okay.. so here's my thought after coming away from this meet, and it might be one of the very "anti-Head-Fi" and unpopular opinion. Of course you can never judge a headphone's full capability under "meet" conditions, but I walked away from the meeting relatively unimpressed. The good news it that I basically have lost my desire to buy any "uber" headphones, the bad news is that I was really hoping that they had a lot more to offer.

To put it in perspective, when I went to my got into Head-Fi and listened to the semi-high-end headphones (HD650, CD3000, HP-1.. so on.. so forth), it was a true revelation in what high-end headphones can really do. It's a huge, dramatic improvement. I'm not saying that Orpehus, R10, L3000 isn't very good, that they are, but nevertheless the amount of improvement doesn't nearly approach that "revelation" I had before. Obviously I heard those headphones under the same type of "meet" conditions and were still able to discern just how much dramatic improvements there are. Now all there are left are subtle little improvements.

Of course, subtle improvements are important, but I just never expected the rate of diminishing return to be that great. The R10 sounded better than CD3000 in certain respects, but not in all respects, yet it costs that much more. Orpheus is one of the most natural sounding headphone I've ever heard, but it is not worth the difference in price. Basically paying *that* much more for subtle improvements that rounds out the entire experience just simply isn't worth it to me.

Furthermore, is that not one headphone felt "perfect" to me, everything still seems like one form of compromise to another. If I was going to invest that much money and still feel like something is missing, I may as well not spend it at all. Here are my impressions on some of the headphones:


R10

The soundstage is great in these headphones, but it is recording dependent. You can hardly fault the headphone for that, but without well mastered recording that really shows off its expansive soundstage, it isn't that different from the CD3000. When you do have the right recording though, the midrange and soundstage really shines, layers and levels above CD3000.

However, they are also light in bass presentation; not that the bass is missing, but it doesn't have the impact and excitement I wanted. Granted that it might not have been in the best amp+headphone combination at the meet. Perhaps it will have a lot more gut with the SDS. I expected them to at least match the impact and excitement level of the CD3000 though, but they don't.

Of course they were tested against my modified CD3000, which already has a richer warmer tonality due to the upgrades. The stock CD3000 would've had a bigger performance gap... perhaps enough to entice me into buying R10 despite of what I didn't like about it. However after the upgrade, I just don't have a desire for R10 anymore.


Orpheus

Orpheus was indeed very nice, and I can understand why people rave about them. However, when Morsel mentioned that she felt it was lacking "guts", common amongst electrostatic headphones, I had to agree as well.

I think the biggest selling point of the HE90 (I should stop calling it Orpheus, because Orpheus refers to both the amp and the headphone in a system, right?) is how natural and "real" they sound. It's one of those, just sound "right" sort of thing. I would've appreciated that a lot more.. except...

I'm used to the Sensaphonics already, and Sensaphonics has that same characteristic as to just how natural and real everything sounds. HE90 takes it to a higher level; but instead of being wow'd by the dramatic increase in realism, I felt like it was just incremental improvements on what I'm getting from the Sensas already.

If I had never had the Sensas, I would've been completely overwhelmed by the way that HE90 sounded. Since I have the Sensas now, I just don't feel that HE90 warrants the price, the hassle of getting it, or the hassle of getting the Blue Hawaii built for it.


L3000

Like all high-end Audio Technica headphones, they're very quirky. They sounded nice out of the DHA3000, but nothing else. I took them around a bit and plugged them into various amps, and in almost all cases they sounded just pedestrian. In combination of the DHA3000 they are well-rounded and very nice indeed; but it's just not versatile enough.

Just reminds me of all other high-end Audio Technica headphones, which might sound good with a particular amp, particular source, but to find that magical combination is just way too much pain. The only good thing is that L3000 is readily available (in comparison to other headphones here), and there is an accompanying amp that you know will work.

Bad thing is, for the near $6000 combined price of both the amp and headphone, I think you can do a lot better going with something else (like, R10 & some other amp?).

I am tempted by the L3000 though, not by its sound, but the comfort and the design. If I ever get one it'll be purely for looks. Which means I probably will never get one.


Qualia

Lots of detail, very articulate and sharp trebles. Awesomely painful to listen to for long duration. They're very light and comfortable other than the sound. I didn't find them overtly analytical, even if they are, you can probably change that by having a more fluid tube amp. However its way of presenting detail by stressing treble is something I'm not a fan of. It did have more impact than the R10 (I got a good seal & fit), but again, the painful treble just kills it for me.

I think Sony took completely the wrong direction with this one, R10 is still the best Sony headphone ever made. I would actually throw the Qualia into the fire and watch it burn... or crack the headband in half and see if it's really carbon fiber... Yeah, I don't like it.


So that's pretty much what I thought of all the high-end headphones at the meet. The takeaway is that the last few percent of headphone performance is way too expensive, and nothing really justifies spending that much money for a non-life-changing experience. I really expected a lot more... to quote an old MTV phrase, "When people stop being polite, and start getting real." The reality is that I felt these headphones are more status rather than performance now.

If I had the expendible income, by all means I might get a few of them just for the hell of it.... If you can afford the last few percentage of performance, might as well go for it, right?

Given a financial situation more aligned with the real world, if I had that much money... I'd buy a new car, save up for a house, or if I want to buy entertainment stuff, I'd go get speakers. I'm very sure for the amount of money some of these systems cost, I would be happier with a nice pair of speakers rather than these extremely high-end headphones.

 

[lindrone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif Lindrone, You definitely win the "looks absolutely nothing like I pictured" award for this meet.

LOL, don't I really look so much meaner in real life?!.. Don't I?!!!!

(can't help but use that smilie... since I've tried one on now.. and they just look stupid!!!!!)

 

[eweitzman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif Under "meet conditions", the k501 sounded similiar to the orpheus.

I know you're just screwing around, but these two definitely did not sound similar to me under "meet conditions". OTOH, the cd3000, r10, 010, and he90 were all in the same upper echelon compared to everything else.