No benefit of using a cheap $200 headphone amp
Jan 17, 2011 at 2:45 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 15

cancausecancer

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I bought a Pro-ject Headbox MkII amp here in Europe. Plugging into it reduces the quality of my sound from audiophile to averageville. I think I just learned that not all amps are audiophile.

I read up a lot about this amp and amps in general (like pretty much everyone does). What I expected was better sound over a non-amped situation. What I got was access to lower frequencies at the expense of clarity/detail/highs. The sound is easily better without this amp but that's the polar opposite of what I expected and what most other people would expect. I can't be alone in this. I leave the amp unplugged because there is no point in paying so much for headphones if they're going to play the same quality as a $100 pair.

Can someone else with this amp, a good source and a good set of headphones compare sound quality vs unamped? Or if someone has a good set of cans that also run unamped, can you test if your clarity/detail/highs lessen when going thru the amp?




Here is my review of the Pro-ject Head Box II, I tested using amp vs not-amp. If you don't want to read everything then just speed read the bold text only.

For it's size it's a heavy piece of equipment. I compare the weight to holding a 1 liter bottle of water in the hand. It's like a mini tank.

For testing it, my source is a Xonar D2X using foobar 2000 w/asio. I'm using HD 600 headphones, a FIM audiophile reference disc and McIntosh audiophile reference disc (both lossless).

Without this amp, with the HD 600s straight into the Xonar, music has a lot of clarity and feels very precise, it's easy to appreciate the sound. The xylophone in Canon in D - All Star Percussion Ensemble on the FIM disc sounds very clear and very distinct, it is easy to pick out the separate instruments and there is a lot of fun listening to everything in this piece. The violins in Starker plays Kodaly from McIntosh Audiophile Test Reference #02 sound beautiful. You get a lot of detail and it almost feels like you can see the strings.

When going thru the amp things change. The audio quality lessens and the clarity in the top range has disappeared, the highs aren't there like before. The xylophones don't sound as real nor distinct. The instruments blend in together a bit so it's not as easy to separate them by their sound and enjoy each one individually as it is without the amp. The violins in Starker Plays Kodaly on the McIntosh cd sound very plain, they've lost the luster and detail and there is nothing distinct to focus on.

The amp brings out more lows so you hear more/lower bass which is nice because without the amp you can see you are missing some of it (not enough to write home about though). I also did some comparing using a Christina Aguilera CD and the bass is better with the amp but I don't miss it when I remove the amp because the audio quality suffers enough that I may as well have loaded up youtube and used it for my source.

I would recommend this amp for people who listen to tracks of wind blowing or tracks of groups stomping their feet. If your headphones or source are low quality then you have nothing to lose and this amp will give you some nicer bass.

I would not recommend this amp if your headphones and source are high quality, the loss of quality will make it unusable. The more quality in your setup, the more you'll not want your setup to be brought down to the quality of this amp.

 
Jan 17, 2011 at 5:46 PM Post #3 of 15
I don't have a standalone amp, but here's what I use and what I note, and perhaps this will contrubute to the conversation:
 
headphones: Sennhesier HD595, Denon AH-D5000 (prefer Denons 100x)
Soundcard: HT Omega Claro Plus (nice for a sound card)
A/V receiver: Pioneer VSX-519V-K (cheap)
 
The A/V receiver is fed by optical cable from the sound card.
 
Put in the line out of the sound card or the headphone out of the A/V receiver, I notice no difference in sound of my Sennheisers. I am tempted to say that there is a difference in bass but it is difficult to say. Same two inputs for the Denons, though, and I definitely have more bass on the A/V receiver's headphone jack VS my soundcard headphone out.  
  
Any other differences there might be are way to subtle for me to notice. I am not sure if I will ever get a high quality headphone dac/amp, because I am not sure I will be able to appreciate the differences. 
 
 
------
 
EDIT 
I decided to carefully A/B the two as best as I could today, feeling vaguely uncertain about my prior certainty. It wasn't obvious when I first made this post, but jeez - with some careful listening and the right amount of sleep (and perhaps no alcohol in my system, if my 100% soberness today helps) I noticed many more differences.
 
The Pioneer amplifier headphone output is muddy and wrong. The HT Omega Claro Plus is far sharper and cleaner. There is more bass in the Pioneer, but the extra bass is not at all worth the reduced clarity. The sound feels more spacious, and instruments are more easy to identify. I notice this with both the Sennheisers and the Denons, but the Denons especially show the flaws of the Pioneer now that I am properly listening to it. 
 
Despite the additional clarity of the Claro, though, it still feels like it is missing something. Although you can read above that I didn't want to ever get a high quality dac/amp, I've just ordered a Nuforce Icon HD. We'll see how it goes. 
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 6:12 PM Post #4 of 15
Oh yeah, I am new at the HP amps but it seems like the old same " trial and error" path that I have been thru so  many moons ago with hi-end audio.
 
I have a modest Pio Elie A35r which I love for my bedroom system. I use the Mirage FRX7 with my Sony Viao laptop to listen to Pandora One. I am very pleased with this low budget SQ: Clean, clear and most of all balanced.
 
To make s story short, I use the Pio A 35r HP jack with my new HD 595 and I could not be more disapointed : bass is bloating, mid is recessed and the highs is rolled-off. So I decided toget an RMA for the HD 595 but before I pack it up, I told myself to give the HD 595 another shot wihout the amp from the Pio A 35r. Yes, straight out of the HP jack of the Sony Viao and to my amazing, the HD 595 sounds not that bad. The highs is better, mid is much clearer and the bass is less out of wack..
 
How can a HP jack from a Sony Viao laptop gives me a more balanced SQ than the HP jack from the Pio Elite Intergrated amp?  I am in serach for the good HP amp but the scenario mentioned above taught me a lesson that more is not necessary better. System synnergy is the most important factor.
 
I am looking at the Asgard from Schiit Audio, Burson 160 and little dots MkIV but without an actual audition, it 's nothing but throwing crap against the wall and hope for it to stick.
 
My audio dilema ! How's yours?
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 7:39 PM Post #5 of 15
You really should have done more research before going with this POS - I had a similar experience with my first purchase, but that doesnt mean that everything under $500 is automatically crap.
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 8:14 PM Post #6 of 15


 
Quote:
To make s story short, I use the Pio A 35r HP jack with my new HD 595 and I could not be more disapointed : bass is bloating, mid is recessed and the highs is rolled-off. So I decided toget an RMA for the HD 595 but before I pack it up, I told myself to give the HD 595 another shot wihout the amp from the Pio A 35r. Yes, straight out of the HP jack of the Sony Viao and to my amazing, the HD 595 sounds not that bad. The highs is better, mid is much clearer and the bass is less out of wack..

 
I'm glad I'm not the only one who hears that. The next time I have access to a high quality headphone amp I'm going to compare to see if it lowers the clarity too. With microphone amps, the more you pay, the less the amp degrades/colours your signal so when you pay $12,000 for a mic amp, you're doing it because you need the signal as close to original as possible. I can believe that's also true for headphone amps, if it is, then I shouldn't be surprised at all that my amp ruins my sound.
 
The difficulty in buying audio stuff online is objective opinion doesn't tell you enough and many of the online knowledge sources are based on subjective opinion, parroting of other people's opinion, speculation of opinion and even some parts are people's imagination. If everyone wanted the same thing from their sound it'd be easier to trust opinions.
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 8:48 PM Post #8 of 15
Glad to say that the E7/E9 do *not* suck.
 
Sorry for your loss (finances, time). 
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 8:52 PM Post #9 of 15
ajreynol, I was interested in the E9 until I read about some poor soul who could only get his new E9 to work if he physically held the headphone jack in the E9's HP out socket. I sincerely hope that is the 'one in a thousand' that escaped the watchful eye of those doing the quality control at Fiio, but it was nonetheless disturbing.
 
Jan 17, 2011 at 9:11 PM Post #10 of 15
I'm sure any system can come unexpectedly damaged out of the box.
 
I've had 3 Fiio products so far.  Never a problem with any of them.  If you want a strong neutral amp at a reasonable price, you can't really go wrong.
 
Hell, this thing drives the HD 650's on LOW gain with the dial only at half strength (noon).  with no noticeable feedback or static.  If you want a neutral amp or DAC, I have nothing but good things to say about the E7 and E9.
 
Jan 18, 2011 at 3:54 AM Post #11 of 15
E9 is a very good contender for a desktop headphone amp that costs near $100. OMG!
biggrin.gif

 
Jan 18, 2011 at 2:21 PM Post #13 of 15


Quote:
I did lose details and clarity with a tube amp compared to the phone jack of a decent sound card or pro audio interface.



Depends on the tube amp, the sound card, and the headphones in question.  If you tried to drive a pair of relatively demanding low impedance phones (say K701's) with a cheap OTL tube amp, it wouldn't be at all surprising that you would prefer your prior solid state amp.
 
My experience, however, was just the opposite.  In comparison to my X-fi, or even my old Yamaha receiver, plugging my Beyers into my Woo 3 for the first time resulted in a significant improvement in separation, clarity, and sound stage.
 
Jan 18, 2011 at 9:13 PM Post #15 of 15
I hear better clarity across the board when I use the headphone section on my 1990s Technics Integrated amp as opposed to my newish Creative X-Fi sound card when I used 1/8jack to RCA. The sound is even better through my Marantz Amp (still using X-Fi as DAC).
These two amps aren't even dedicated headphone amps.
 
Having said that I'm using my HD600s and I can't hear the difference when I switch to Sony MDR-V300s (low quality phones). It obviously depend on the phones you use.
Maybe the Project was designed for use with <£50 headphones? :D
 
EDIT: my soundcard is a lower quality X-Fi Titanium (I believe this is lower quality than Fatality)
 

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