[Doobish]

Hey, I just ordered some Beyerdynamic DT 990 PRO 250 ohms, and I'm wondering how well they will go without any amp. I'm pretty new to this higher end audio stuff if you can't tell... So am I okay without an amp for these headphones? And how much difference would an amp make (for someone who isn't a super audiophile like me)? Just using an onboard soundcard on an ASRock Z77 Extreme4 by the way too.

 

[davidsh]

Well, you do have the best onboard audio codecs, that realtek can deliver.
 
You have ALC 898, in my computer I have ALC 887. I don't know how the difference is, but I can tell you this much: The 887 is bad, and not just bad, but BAD. My iphone delivers better audio quality. The audio is slightly noisy, the bass is very bad, and the whole sound seems grainy and not-transparent. Also the soundstage sucks compared to with proper amping.
 
And this is NOT with a demanding phone. For doing this comparison, I have used my etymotic HF5, which is 16 ohm impedance...

 

[Doobish]

Alright, so I didn't know that sound cards just had a small amp for headphones. So let me rephrase the question... Will an realtek ALC 898 be good enough for a 250 ohm set of Beyerdynamic DT990s?

 

[stv014]

Quote:

And this is NOT with a demanding phone. For doing this comparison, I have used my etymotic HF5, which is 16 ohm impedance...

 
In this particular case, IEMs are actually very demanding. While it is true that they can get much louder than the DT990-250, for example, but the quality degradation is more significant. Especially if you used a line output jack to drive your headphones. Onboard audio often has very high output impedance (this can have major effects on the frequency response of some IEMs, but also affects the bass on full size dynamic headphones), and/or uses small output capacitors (e.g. 100 uF on the front panel headphone jack, and 10 uF on the rear line output) that roll off the bass, and both of these problems affect low impedance headphones more. Also, the ALC887 seems to have digital volume control, so it outputs a constant high noise floor that does not depend on the volume setting, but the more sensitive your headphones are, the more hiss you will hear, and IEMs are very sensitive.
With the DT990, the most likely problem is that the power might not be enough for some. It is also affected by the above mentioned issues, but not as much as an IEM.

 

[davidsh]

Quote:

 
In this particular case, IEMs are actually very demanding. While it is true that they can get much louder than the DT990-250, for example, but the quality degradation is more significant. Especially if you used a line output jack to drive your headphones. Onboard audio often has very high output impedance (this can have major effects on the frequency response of some IEMs, but also affects the bass on full size dynamic headphones), and/or uses small output capacitors (e.g. 100 uF on the front panel headphone jack, and 10 uF on the rear line output) that roll off the bass, and both of these problems affect low impedance headphones more. Also, the ALC887 seems to have digital volume control, so it outputs a constant high noise floor that does not depend on the volume setting, but the more sensitive your headphones are, the more hiss you will hear, and IEMs are very sensitive.
With the DT990, the most likely problem is that the power might not be enough for some. It is also affected by the above mentioned issues, but not as much as an IEM.

Thank you for making that clear to me. The hiss is btw not that bad, but the sound quality is, at least with my ety's.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Alright, so I didn't know that sound cards just had a small amp for headphones. So let me rephrase the question... Will an realtek ALC 898 be good enough for a 250 ohm set of Beyerdynamic DT990s?

 
I tested the Beyerdynamic T70 (also 250 Ohms) for a few hours with the '898 Realtek. It wasn't a scientific test or anything, but I was very pleased. My test was short because the T70 was destined for work where I have an ODAC+O2.

 

[Doobish]

Good to know, how were they for volume?

 

[stv014]

Note that the T70 is much more efficient than the older DT series headphones, which need up to 8-10 times more power (or about 3x voltage) for the same volume. However, I tried the DT770-250 from the front panel headphone output of ALC887 onboard audio, and it was loud enough (and did not sound bad either), but not with a lot of headroom left for very dynamic music. Of course, everyone has different preferences regarding what is loud enough; and the quality of onboard audio is also a function of how well it is implemented on the motherboard, not only the codec chip used.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

Alright, so I didn't know that sound cards just had a small amp for headphones. So let me rephrase the question... Will an Realtek ALC 898 be good enough for a 250-Ohm set of Beyerdynamic DT990s?

The Realtek is an audio processor, not an amplifier, but whatever the motherboard uses to power headphones, it's going to be the cheapest the motherboard manufacturer can get away with.
Schiit just came out with a headphone amplifier (Magni) for $99. I'm going to guess the Magni can easily drive 250-ohm headphones.
Maybe one of the new Creative Labs Z series sound cards can drive 250-Ohm headphones.
 
The Asus Xonar DG & DGX sound cards, can drive (at around max volume) 250-Ohm headphones.

 

[HamilcarBarca]

Quote:

Note that the T70 is much more efficient than the older DT series headphones, which need up to 8-10 times more power (or about 3x voltage) for the same volume. However, I tried the DT770-250 from the front panel headphone output of ALC887 onboard audio, and it was loud enough (and did not sound bad either), but not with a lot of headroom left for very dynamic music. Of course, everyone has different preferences regarding what is loud enough; and the quality of onboard audio is also a function of how well it is implemented on the motherboard, not only the codec chip used.

 
Thanks for the update and correction.
 
I now have the T70 connected to an O2. If I set the volume past about 7:00 for most music, it's deafening.

 

[Doobish]

Well, I'll let you know how they are when the headphones come (later today or next monday). Might buy a FiiO e9 or something later on if I think it needs it...

 

[syryanyang]

They sound pretty decent straight out of my business notebook but not much improvement when hooked up with E17. So I figured they need better amp to reach full potential. I ordered a Matrix M-stage DAC and AMP. They're on their way and I'm really excited.