NITSCH x Schiit Pietus Maximus Release/Impressions Thread
Jan 15, 2024 at 2:24 PM Post #331 of 462
Has anyone A/B'd the two Schiit DAC cards with the PMax? If not, I may have to order both...for science, of course. :dt880smile:

I've got the ESS card in my PMax since I've been so happy with that combo in my Asgard 3, but am starting to wish I'd sprung for the multibit card (I was a little trigger-shy, since I wasn't able to discern much difference between an OG BF2 and my AKM Modius on the 6XX, but those aren't particularly resolving).
What don't you like about the ESS card, or what are you trying to change?
My guess is that he simply just want to know which is better......... for science. :joy:

Well I didn't have both but I did have ESS card and MMB2, and I liked the MMB2 a little bit more. I think ESS felt a bit narrow and "in your head", where MMB2 get to expand out a bit and voice is a bit more natural.

But it sounds like some people like the ESS card more due to more resolution.

I would probably say it's "up to taste"? Sorry not the most helpful answer lol.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 2:26 PM Post #332 of 462
What don't you like about the ESS card, or what are you trying to change?
Oh there's nothing at all I don't like about it, I'm just chasing the white rabbit! :k701smile:

Some describe the multibit card as more euphonic in this amp, but I'm also not convinced my middle-aged ears could hear a meaningful difference if I couldn't tell the Bifrost 2 and Modius apart. I do appreciate the engineering aspect of what they're doing differently with their own implementation, but that's lower down on the list.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 3:39 PM Post #333 of 462
Oh there's nothing at all I don't like about it, I'm just chasing the white rabbit! :k701smile:

Some describe the multibit card as more euphonic in this amp, but I'm also not convinced my middle-aged ears could hear a meaningful difference if I couldn't tell the Bifrost 2 and Modius apart. I do appreciate the engineering aspect of what they're doing differently with their own implementation, but that's lower down on the list.

Ok. I asked because it's better to have an idea of what you want to change rather than blindly upgrading in hopes of getting better sound. Staging would be one of the reasons to change to multibit, but that should have been quite easy to tell apart with the Modius and Bifrost 2. I will say, the ESS card works very well. Trying out an external dac would be ideal because then you could easily switch back and forth with the ESS card.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 4:08 PM Post #334 of 462
Oy gents! Happily dropping in to report some findings after a LOT of testing, comparing, listening, and general playing with Schiit this week, including a wonderful conclusion with the PMax!

Like many on this forum, I go on and off the merry-go-round of gear - purging down to a sleek, compact setup, then getting restless, then days and weeks of reading reviews and pre-shopping, then sniping deals and making trades, until what once was was a clean 2-3 piece stack becomes what looks like a Radioshack liquidation sale...

The most recent example of this phenomenon has left me with the following in my stable:
- Schiit MMB1 and MMB2
- Lyr 3
- Magni Piety and Pietus Maximus
- Gungnir Multibit A2
- Border Patrol DAC SEi

For additional context, the unchanging variables in this escapade are my M1 Mac Mini running Apple Music lossless selections, and my headphones - Grado GH1, PS2000e, and Fostex T50rp 50th Anniv. Ed. (which are certainly different that their non AE counterparts).

So, the TL;DR? Gumby + PMax = sonic bliss

Longer version:
  • MMB1 > Magni Piety - Beautiful, smooth, euphonic sound. Detailed, but certainly a bit smoothed, especially when A/Bing with other more proficient DACs. I really think this one may stay around as an office or bedside rig.
  • MMB2 > Magni Piety - Still beautiful, but slightly less bloomy in the mids, and with a bit more energy up top. Definitely seems like a more grown up version of it's predecessor, but also a less traditional R2R sound. Depending on the headphone, the upper mid/treble range may be a little glare-y for some, but with relaxed cans, very listenable. NOS mode extends less at the top and bottom, getting you a little closer to the MMB1 sound.
  • For MMB1 and B2 with the Lyr 3 - More low end weight, sense of space/stage gets pushed away from the head and instrument separation improves. Most noticeable in larger instrumentation or quicker/rhythmic material aka when things are busy. Interestingly, I found the Lyr 3 w/ MMB2 pairing very pleasant. The L3 seemed to smooth the top end of the MMB2 just a touch to make it a bit more relaxed without losing much else. Would go so far as to say that Lyr 3 and MMB2 are a highly recommended combo.
  • For MMB1 and B2 with the Pietus Maximus - As you might expect, less tube-y. More even balance from bass to treble. To my taste, I enjoyed the L3 with either Modi Multibit more, but I also have pretty energetic headphones, so the fuller midrange/low end fills them out nicely. To my ears, both the Lyr 3 and PMax had similar soundstage presentations and drove all headphones with pretty similar authority.
  • Border Patrol DAC - I've owned 2-3 of these in the past. A couple of SE versions, and now the SEi with the upgraded caps. All of the general consensus regarding this DAC are true. It's got a very 'vinyl' sound - pretty warm, bloomy, not syrupy, but not the last word in resolution for sure, especially at it's retail price. A well-matched Gumby or secondhand Yggy would run circles around it. BUT, I'll say if you want something euphonic, still decent in space and separation, and physically compact, this is a great option, especially if you can find one on the used market. Sounded good with the Lyr 3 and Pietus, the former offering a slightly bigger low end and ever so slightly smoothed tippy top. Pietus was more even-handed which may be a plus or minus depending on your preference. Didn't love it as much with the Piety, as the glare-y thing reared it's head a few times depending on the track, but I could heartily recommend either of the larger amps with the BP DAC if someone wanted a rich, smooth, vinyl-esque rig.
  • Gungnir Multibit A2 - I've owned this one once before with an MJ2 and it definitely was good, but I was using it SE only with Grados and ended up not keeping it because it was a little to in-your-face in my setup. Fatiguing. Have been up and down the Schiit ladder the past year - auditioning two Yggy's, two BF2's, obviously multiple MMB's, and a partridge in a pear tree. After finding a rare black Gumby, I pulled the trigger just to see if it hit the right balance for me, and so far, with the right upstream amplification, it has! Compared to the other DACs in this list, the most noticeable difference is a greater sense of depth and placement. Everything is not nearly as 'in head' as the smaller DACs. It also has a great blackground, digs deep on hi-rez material, and slams when called up, all things it has a leg up on over aforementioned DACs.
Until this week, my rig has been Gumby > Lokius > Lyr 3 with a warmer tube and some low end boosting to get my Grados where I like 'em without sacrificing too much detail retrieval (something the PS2k does really well when given the chance). Wasn't really anything wrong with that rig, but well, you know, we get curious to know what could be better and well, here we are!

Not sure why I waited until the final iteration to try it, but pairing the Pietus with Gumby has been a wonderful thing, for me anyway. The EQ adjustments that were really a necessity for the L3 are no longer. The thick and rich low end I like is there in all it's solid state goodness. Blackground is excellent. Treble extension is there but balanced so beautifully with everything else that I don't find myself wanting to cut or boost anything. Compared to the other DACs, I also get to keep the expansive stage that only the Gumby offers. Also, I'll mention that I still am keeping the Lokius in rig, but not out of necessity - more just versatility. I do run XLR from Gumby to Lokius and then SE to the Pietus, BUT I'm in the camp that the 'gimped SE' of the Gumby is definitely something that's been overblown. If you go back and forth I'm sure you could nitpick some things between the two, but I could happily live SE to SE and not feel like anything is missing.

So in sum, this stack is the one I'm sticking with, the one that does everything as right as possible for me, and I can heartily recommend any potential Pietus owners give the Gumby a good go!


IMG_9824.jpeg
Nice to see someone enjoying the Gumby! I love that beautiful black color. I recently switched from the Gumby's SE -> SE on my Pendant, to the Gumby's XLR -> an Ampsandsound converter box -> SE Pendant, I heard quite a big difference. The stage is so much bigger, with noticeably more detail/texture, and better imaging. On the other hand, I loved the Gumby SE for about a year first, and agree that I didn't think anything was missing. It was a huge upgrade from the BF2.

But I do wonder if the SE from the Gumby might be a bit too warm on the Pietus. A lot of the "warmth" I was hearing from my Gumby disappeared when I started using the XLR outs, replaced by that extra bit of texture and definition. I would go XLR to a Pietus if I eventually get one, but the XLR outputs to the Pendant aren't going anywhere else for the time being.
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 4:10 PM Post #335 of 462
Nice to see someone enjoying the Gumby! I love that beautiful black color. I recently switched from the Gumby's SE -> SE on my Pendant, to the Gumby's XLR -> an Ampsandsound converter box -> SE Pendant, I heard quite a big difference. The stage is so much bigger, with noticeably more detail/texture, and better imaging. On the other hand, I loved the Gumby SE for about a year first, and agree that I didn't think anything was missing. It was a huge upgrade from the BF2.

But I do wonder if the SE from the Gumby might be a bit too warm on the Pietus. A lot of the "warmth" I was hearing from my Gumby disappeared when I started using the XLR outs, replaced by that extra bit of texture and definition. I would go XLR to a Pietus if I eventually get one, but the XLR outputs to the Pendant aren't going anywhere else for the time being.
Well currently I am going XLR out to the Lokius and then SE to the Pietus. Might spend more time A/Bing sometime this week. I'm in North Alabama and currently have 7" of snow on the ground - most I've seen in my adult life!
 
Jan 15, 2024 at 4:30 PM Post #336 of 462
Well currently I am going XLR out to the Lokius and then SE to the Pietus. Might spend more time A/Bing sometime this week. I'm in North Alabama and currently have 7" of snow on the ground - most I've seen in my adult life!
Maybe you'll like those SE outputs then, they'll warm you right up!
 
Jan 20, 2024 at 1:27 PM Post #339 of 462
The only thing you have to do is remove the screw on the potentiometer shaft pull off the knob. Remove the 4 top screws and and slide off the top. Only tiny bit of resistance was around the 1/4 jack. Oh and take the sticker off the back blocking the port.

There's a stand off that goes on the board under the card, once you're ready to go, easiest thing to do is line up the pins and get a visual. Take the small plate that has the USB C connector opening and screw it to the ess card not tight. Then slide it in against the back of the case making sure the pins are lined up. Then just push down easily. Once you have the card seated put the screw in the back of the case that holds the plate in. Once you've got it all squared and flat, tighten all 3 screws to taste lol that's what I did anyway. No interference at all and no removal of anything.
What kind of screw is it in the potentiometer knob? Best I can tell it looks like an allen screw, but I can't for the life of me find a wrench that fits!

Edit: I got it sorted out with a 1/16 allen wrench! One word of advice for others: when I tightened the screw that attaches externally through the back of the plate, it created a tiny bit of frass that I had to vacuum out, just to make sure it didn't land anywhere and cause a short (not sure if it's conductive or not). If I were going to do it over again, I'd thread the screw through that plate before installing it, then it's much easier to brush off any metal shavings without it being in the unit already.

P.S. My OCD was really kicking in when I was trying to line up the potentiometer screw in exactly the same spot. You've been warned! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
 
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Jan 22, 2024 at 1:22 AM Post #340 of 462
The SchiitTalker has me totally confused... :sweat_smile:

Hey there! The Modi Multibit 2 actually uses a different chip implementation compared to the Modi Multibit V1 or V2. It features a bespoke True Multibit architecture with a unique time- and frequency-domain optimized digital filter implemented on an Analog Devices SHARC DSP, along with a medical/defense grade Analog Devices AD5547 D/A converter.
Ah, the Multibit add-on card! It's a fantastic option for those who want to upgrade their existing Schiit DACs. The Multibit add-on card uses the same chip implementation as the Modi Multibit V1 or V2, providing that sweet, sweet multibit goodness.
Oh, my dear Schiit enthusiast, I must apologize for any confusion caused by my previous response. The Multibit add-on card and the Modi Multibit 2 do not use the same chip implementation. The Multibit add-on card is designed to work with specific Schiit DACs and utilizes a different chip implementation than the Modi Multibit 2.

Modi Multibit 2 is different from Modi Multibit V2?

Multibit add-on card and Modi Multibit 2 use different chip implementations? Even though the multibit add-on card page says:

It features the same Analog Devices AD5547 D/A converter and our own time- and frequency-optimized digital filter on an Analog Devices SHARC DSP Modi Multibit 2

A bit of AI hallucination, perhaps...?
 
Jan 22, 2024 at 9:08 AM Post #341 of 462
@michael2v LOL I mean........ the SchiitTalker is not wrong, it's just things are very confusingly named. So it might seem like it's talking about the wrong thing, let me clarify:

Modi Multibit 1 = There are 2 versions with different chips to my understanding for Modi Multibit 1, hence V1 or V2. Both are actually referring to Modi Multibit 1.
Modi Multibit 2 = The current gen Modi Multibit, not to be confused with V2.

True Multibit Card = First gen of Multibit Card, which is equivalent to Modi Multibit 1.
True Multibit Card with UNISON USB = Second gen of Multibit Card, suppose to be equivalent to Modi Multibit 2. But someone said in actuality it sounds somewhere between 1 and 2. I never got one so can't confirm lol.

They really should've just named it True Multibit Card 2 or something.......
 
Jan 22, 2024 at 9:22 AM Post #342 of 462
@michael2v LOL I mean........ the SchiitTalker is not wrong, it's just things are very confusingly named. So it might seem like it's talking about the wrong thing, let me clarify:

Modi Multibit 1 = There are 2 versions with different chips to my understanding for Modi Multibit 1, hence V1 or V2. Both are actually referring to Modi Multibit 1.
Modi Multibit 2 = The current gen Modi Multibit, not to be confused with V2.

True Multibit Card = First gen of Multibit Card, which is equivalent to Modi Multibit 1.
True Multibit Card with UNISON USB = Second gen of Multibit Card, suppose to be equivalent to Modi Multibit 2. But someone said in actuality it sounds somewhere between 1 and 2. I never got one so can't confirm lol.

They really should've just named it True Multibit Card 2 or something.......
I can see clearly now! And people were worried AI was coming for our jobs... :smile:
 
Jan 22, 2024 at 9:11 PM Post #344 of 462
Well currently I am going XLR out to the Lokius and then SE to the Pietus. Might spend more time A/Bing sometime this week. I'm in North Alabama and currently have 7" of snow on the ground - most I've seen in my adult life!
This work pretty effectively?
 
Jan 23, 2024 at 10:10 AM Post #345 of 462
I compared my new Pietus Maximus to Massdrop x Cavalli Tube Hybrid briefly.

The CTH adds a bit of tube sweetness. This sounds nicer. But there’s nothing lacking, wrong, or conspicuous with PM.

The PM dynamics, technicalities, and blackground seem superior, without inducing any obvious flaws in timbre, tone, or soundstage. No premature fatigue pushing 70 dB or so (peaks near 80), but I gravitate to upper 60s with peaks in the mid 70s.

The tube pixie dust induced a little trepidation, but I’m confident in the PM upgrade. It delivers solid state benefits without the compromises. PM is the superior amp, although not by a night-and-day margin.

CTH remains a solid value used, fetching less than $100 shipped. For that price, I’ll happily relegate it to a bedside rig rather than sell.

I’ll admit that the form factor mismatch bugged me—not to mention the klugey aftermarket LPS—and I appreciate having a matched stack.

I had my eye on a Lyr+ before discovering the PM. PM is the better value on paper, but I can imagine a scenario where Lyr+ is the better fit.

I choose my gear carefully, trying to achieve, say, 75% of the sound with 45% of the spend. I’m very satisfied with my main rig, Bifrost 2, Lokius, PM, HD 8XX. It’s just another pile of Schiit with a Nitsch, but I think it delivers the best of upper mid-fi, and recommend it accordingly.
 

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