[PaulMah]

Many of the wealthiest, do go looking for Bose. They don't know what sounds great, just what they read about in their Fortune Magazine ad.

But let's stick to the HE-1000 impressions, shall we?

Sorry, I don't agree.  Unless you can cite examples that I can confirm, I can't believe you.  But you're right, we should return on topic. 

 

[conquerator2]

And here I thought this thread was doing so well on real impressions... 

 

[zorin]

 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

This is always a hot topic...
 
Value is in the eye of the beholder. Most people rich or poor would be in shock if you told them you spent $1000 on a headphone. Then a heart attack if you told them you spend another $2000 on an amp and dac. That was just an example, many spend much more than this.
 
That said I think many head-fi-ers are EXTREMELY desensitized to money when they been in this game for too long. They feel it is the normal or better yet, justified to spend thousands on head gear. Easy example is simple accessories, spend $200-700 on cable, they are just wires!!! Top end CPU in the most hardcore of gamers' computers cost less than $200 and is infinity more difficult to design and produce. The billion dollar machines in trillion dollar atmosphere controlled buildings just to make these less than $200 dollar chips with a high defective rejection rate. Or if that is too far fetched most average laptops cost $800? "Best" hyped up laptops like the MacBook Pro cost same if not less than some "Best" headphones. Now some may argue well $200-700 cable is a niche market, not many companies are making them hence they would have to charge a lot. Fool! I say you, ask your self "why is it a niche market in the first place?!"
 
Many companies likes to take advantage of the market, like the above post it is a free market. In the end you the consumer vote with your money. Some people regardless of how much money they have vote smartly and probably why they are rich in the first place... just some food for thought. 

 

Fool! I say you, ask your self "why is it a niche market in the first place?!"
 
Yes, why ?
 
 
That said I think many head-fi-ers are EXTREMELY desensitized to money when they been in this game for too long. They feel it is the normal or better yet, justified to spend thousands on head gear.
 
Good headphones, when well treated, will easily serve you for some twenty years, and even more.  An average American buys 597 cans of soft drinks in one year, which is 597 dollars a year by a conservative estimate  [ http://www.eduplace.com/kids/mw/wr/5/wr5_08_21_5.html ].  In twenty years the amount is 11 940 dollars. Over an average soda pop drinking lifetime, let's say 60 years, the amount comes to 35 820 dollars. An average can of soft drink contains 5 to 10 teaspoons of sugar. There is a growing agreement among the health professionals that sugar is a toxic substance. [Scroll down to 'Health Impact of Soft Drinks' - http://www.cspinet.org/new/pdf/liquid_candy_final_w_new_supplement.pdf ]
A toxic substance which also causes cancers [ http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/research-reveals-how-sugar-causes-cancer ]. 
You can obtain great sounding top of the line headphones and an amplifier for 3000 dollars which comes to 150 dollars per year over twenty years. Then there are intangibles which make the cost even lower. On the whole, life is a misery, the joy of music makes life more bearable. Because of that many audiophiles save serious money on not having to buy anti-depressant drugs, which, it seems, most people cannot function without, these days. When one is happy, immersed in his [most likely 'his'] audiophile world then one is also much less likely to waste health and serious money on alcohol and hard drugs. When one's mind is on the audio hobby, when one spends time listening to music then one is less inclined to think about making mischief and to spend time doing criminal activities, and ultimately wasting money on defense lawyers.
 For a typical low culture zombie spending 300 dollars per year on music and audio equipment is an outrage but spending 600 dollars every year on chemical slops which hasten the day of death is O.K. There are those willing to spend 2000 dollars to go and catch a venereal disease in a Mexican holiday resort and who at the same time laugh at those who buy 1500 dollar headphones which will give immeasurable audio pleasure for years to come. Who are the idiots ?

 

[nw130d]

  Fool! ... idiots ?

Simple it is unpopular to spend hundreds $$$ on 50 cent cables. But hey rich or poor it is one's money do what one want with it.
 
But lets get back on topic... But before we do, lets just get the ridiculous examples out of the way. It is down to personal habit or point of view. You stating someone drinking soft drink is basically "wrong or a wast". Who is to say they don't enjoy their pop as much as you enjoy music. Pretty limited point of view (society should be acceptance of others). This included smoking, drinking... etc. Who is to say your view is right (most people here me included have same view as you) but doesn't make it right view. For all we know people who enjoy drinking of many things, thinks listening to music is stupid. It is something to do going between work and home. Let alone spend same amount of money $$$ worth a compact economy car! (which too can be resold after 5 years). PS listening to music doesn't mean it is health, not exactly exercising when listening to music (some are prob eating Cheetos while listening to music lol). I personally am not offended by your comment on depression and anit-depression drugs. I do however know many would be. It can be a social, economic, biological, or even down to food people eat problem... just some of many reasons. It is a cycle once you are down that rabbit hole many people don't come out, even death. It is considered a medical disorder nothing near the topic we are discussing right now. It honestly is no joke, or taken lightly! (Side note for people currently with wide train of thought. People who drink in access and or smoke and or do recreational drugs... etc does put a strain on health care system here in Canada. In USA this doesn't apply, no public healthcare system. But I personally do extreme sports that have broken bones, I too put strain on health care. Even simple crap like bad drivers that crash their cars way too often...etc all put strain on health care)
 
Going back on topic a bit more..
 
Yes some headphones can last many...many years. However plastics does break down in the drivers over time (I know of no polymers that doesn't degrade over time). But lets just say they degradation somehow didn't noticeably affect sound quality for the first 20 years. Which leads to the question how long do most people keep their headphones more than 5 years? Everyone my self included is itching to get the latest and greatest and sell off their old stuff. Considering average loss of value is 40% over the 5 years (for a popular product). And yes honestly I probably will enjoy my trip to Dominican Republic in the coming month than my HD800 + WA2 than stuck at home listening to music. It honestly is down to point of view. BUT the key here is doesn't mean I am not desensitized to value of headphones and their related products...etc. And many others too a much greater degree than even myself.

 

[up late]

pass the doob

 

[money4me247]

lol this thread gettin extremely OT. let's try to keep this thread to impressions hahah

 

[zolkis]

Yeah, impressions are good, but the big question is the price - giving room for subjective evaluations, and as such, lot of OT. We will only know when it enters the market and it's getting tested against the others. Then wait a little while until the honeymoon is over for the early adopters, or until other new toys appear, and only then we'll know whether, when, and how much is it worth investing in it. Since Fang doesn't know either, he has two choices: 1. overprice and then adjust to meet an optimal turnover within the time window until a better and cheaper product appears, or 2. take the risk to under-price a little and sell like hot cake right after release.

 

[Justin_Time]

Yeah, impressions are good, but the big question is the price - giving room for subjective evaluations, and as such, lot of OT. We will only know when it enters the market and it's getting tested against the others. Then wait a little while until the honeymoon is over for the early adopters, or until other new toys appear, and only then we'll know whether, when, and how much is it worth investing in it. Since Fang doesn't know either, he has two choices: 1. overprice and then adjust to meet an optimal turnover within the time window until a better and cheaper product appears, or 2. take the risk to under-price a little and sell like hot cake right after release.

Zolkis,

Unlikely that the price will be reasonable.

We are already at the beginning of a price-escalation cycle and the mindless pursuit of the absolute sound beyond the point of diminishing return that will end up leaving most of us early supporters of high-end headphone gears out in the cold.

Witness the $1,000 IEM, $5,000 HP and $5,000-$10,000 headAmps in recent years. They make the traditionally pricey Stax gears positively affordable!

I figure we have about 5 more good years to enjoy High-End Headphone gears before they join the rank of the High-End Home Stereo, which I used to be able to afford 20 years ago, but is now out of reach of even some millionaires--to replace my 20 year-old home stereo with current gears of comparable quality, I need to spend about $150,000!!! Heck, just one cartridge now costs as much as my entire system then. I had to find a new hobby.

Why sell a new flagship HP for $1,250 and make say $250 profit per unit when they can sell it at say $2,500--and many people will gladly pay for it since it is only half the price of the Abyss--and make $1,250 per unit. They have to sell just one unit at the higher price and make the same amount of profit as selling 5 units at the lower price. Of course four out of five of us will not be able to afford such expensive gear, but that's our problem, not theirs, is it?

Sorry about the rant!

And thank you for your significant contribution to affordable headphone modifications.

 

[immtbiker]

The members are right.
This is a meet impressions thread, and there are other threads for this specific headphone that discuss
the passionate OT posts. I myself, fall prey to this too. Straying a little is human, but when it becomes the
basis of the main conversation, we need to steer it back on track.
 
But...posting a whole paragraph of why it's off-topic, is in itself, off-topic, too. I digress 

 

 

[zolkis]

There is certainly that tendency of paying for the price in the high end... But headphone market is even more a niche to start with then high end separates: not many people are just ready to pay more than $500 for a headphone, even when they have a $50K main system. I wonder how many Abyss and Orpheus were sold. Hifiman used to belong to the enthusiasts group of manufacturers to provide pretty good sound for the money, together with AKG and Sennheiser. I suspect the HE1000 may be a statement product, with cheaper siblings coming on the way, or turn out to be an evolutionary step and better ones will come at even higher price - actually both can happen. I have no illusions: the likely scenario will be overpricing, and then observing the market. I could understand that: it's actually quite rare to make a breakthrough on diaphragm material, and that may open a lot of possibilities. As good as the best Stax are, I still have friends claiming to hear "typical Mylar specific coloration" with them... For me, they are just more than enough. Perhaps until I hear the HE1000?

 

[Karllin]

Since Hifiman has stated the HE1000 will be a reference product, I am confident we are looking at $2500 +

Just have to wait until June to see where it lands, but I am really wanting these already, so let the bank balances fall....or credit card balances rise..

 

[up late]

it's definitely hifiman's attempt at producing a statement headphone and will be priced accordingly for sure. looks like this thread might've run its course tho.

 

[nw130d]

Surprised there is almost no hype train for the EF1000... by the sounds of it can power some passive speakers along with headphones. Great for 1 do it all desktop amp. Although it is massive, not really saving space or clutter.

 

[icebear]

  Surprised there is almost no hype train for the EF1000... by the sounds of it can power some passive speakers along with headphones. Great for 1 do it all desktop amp. Although it is massive, not really saving space or clutter.

This shouldn't be any surprise really, should it ?

 
First of all no one has heard the amp with anything else but the HE1000 headphones
and second no one knows if the amp will be sold separately
and third no one has any realistic idea of the price

 

[money4me247]

  This shouldn't be any surprise really, should it ?

 
First of all no one has heard the amp with anything else but the HE1000 headphones
and second no one knows if the amp will be sold separately
and third no one has any realistic idea of the price

 
HE1000 & amplifier will be sold separately as well as in a combo package according to Dr. Fang during the 2nd day of the mini-meet.