New to Miles Davis and Jazz
Dec 2, 2011 at 8:50 AM Post #61 of 98

[size=10pt]Will do, no probs, but I don't expect much of it. Seems that 6 tracks version, with corrected speed, is the one that have very acceptable quality and I own one already. That’s make my choice bit difficult, because I am not sure if say Japs Blue CD pressing or K2HD will be a much of improvement from it. They are around USD30 each and that’s the price of the XRCD version I have in my collection, which is predecessor of K2HD, I believe, and, I must say, it’s a very good quality, so, maybe I will get only this one instead of both. The most improvements I expect are less noise, more lifelike / analog and less clinical presentation with much better presence of each instrument.[/size]
[size=10pt]You know, I wouldn’t even bother with it, but because I like this record very much I wouldn’t mind to own better quality CD pressing of it, however without paying the very last penny from my wallet either, that’s all.[/size]
 
 
 
 
Quote:
 Hey Blackmore - as you get around to comparing these different versions, would you mind sharing your thoughts??? I'm curious which you like better and if there is a signifigant difference??
 
Honestly, I've never thought much about it (I own the vinyl and one digital copy, but since I have the vinyl I never listen to the digital any more).



 
 
Dec 2, 2011 at 9:56 AM Post #62 of 98

 
Quote:
Thanks for the comments. So...I take it you are really happy with the 600's for jazz??? I'm looking for an open set and listen to jazz 90-95% of the time.
 
What do you drive them with as far as HP amps go??
 
Thanks again!!
 
 


Oh, definitely.  Currently I only have the E7, E9, and E11, but at some point I'll pick up something really nice, and the 600 is reputed to scale very well with higher end amps.
 
Dec 2, 2011 at 10:56 PM Post #63 of 98
I think the DV 337 is one of them. If you like tubes, I'm sure you might wanna look at this (mine btw):
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/565701/darkvoice-337-with-many-extra-tubes-and-other-stuff-600#post_7921201
 
My 650s sound good with it but I feel that I would have a better chance at something more neutral and overall more detailed and clear with a solid state amp. I wanna see if I do actually like the tube distortion or not.
 
Quote:
 

Oh, definitely.  Currently I only have the E7, E9, and E11, but at some point I'll pick up something really nice, and the 600 is reputed to scale very well with higher end amps.



 
 
Dec 3, 2011 at 12:09 AM Post #64 of 98

 
Quote:
Then that's sad how terrible recordings are today if this is true. The recdording quality of KOB is SO terrible. The instrument that gets the loudest (sax?) distorts terribly and the background is so grainy and dirty.
 


 


I guess the tape hiss drives you nuts? So What?
 
I've read interviews where jazz musicians say they think that the difference between old jazz recordings ( e.g. Rudy van Gelder's recordings for Blue Note) and newer jazz recordings is that the newer ones are brighter!
 
Hard to argue with that, I think the horn sound on some of those old Columbia and Blue Note recordings has a very lifelike quality to it. Yes, sometimes there can be a bit of distortion there, but the realism of the horn sound is.......amazing!
 
Some of the old Contemporary recordings ( for example: Sonny Rollins' Way Out West) sound absolutely amazing.
 
Not to say that I don't think that there are some phenomenal sounding modern jazz CDs out there, for example, I think the sound of Jane Monheit's latest recordings is first rate. One problem I have is that I find the drums sound very clean but slightly artificial. Don't get me started on the cymbals.......
 
Having said all that, my favourite version of Kind Of Blue is the Classic Records 45 rpm vinyl.
 
 
Dec 3, 2011 at 3:59 AM Post #65 of 98
To make modern recording sound less lifelike or digital/artificial you need to use the master tape for original record, however I am not totally sure if this is the only problem here, because most of the time, I think, the record companies just dont care, where the most of musicians dont have any influence in the whole process or, which I think explaines my example here, just because they have differ engineer ears.
 
For example, I have 2 CD's from the same guys and I clearly prefer one above another. One been recorded at Nilento Studio, mixed and mastered at Studio Bunkern, both studios are in Sweden. The record been released by EMI/BlueNote and Made in Korea.
 
Second one been recorded at Finnvox Studio, mixed and mastered at Studio Kekkonen, both in Finland. The record were released by CAM Production, C.A.M. S.r.l. Italy and Made in Italy.
 
So, what we have here is a very simple picture, where musicians are the same, but the guys who behind the whole process are not, so are the final results.
 
p.s. I bought the first record for the second time in Korea, because the first one, EU pressing, was Copy Protected and my CD player have problems with it. Every 10-20 seconds  producing some kind of click that makes you crazy, so, listening was simply not possible.
 
Band : Joona Toivanen Trio
 
CD 1: Frost
CD 2: At My Side
 
Enjoy!
 
 
 
 
 
Dec 3, 2011 at 7:39 AM Post #67 of 98

 
Quote:
Any recommendations on the best "Time Out" release? Deciding between the '97 remaster and the '09 50th anniversary remaster.
Also thank you for this thread!



Excellent album!
I have the 1997 remaster (Columbia Legacy).
i prefer this over the '09 remaster as the '97 version is encoded in HDCD, unfortunately there is NO HDCD logo on the case, nor is their one on the disc.
I have not played this on a non-HDCD compatible CD player so YMMV.
 
I do like the extra discs you get with the 50th anniversary edition.
 
 
Dec 5, 2011 at 1:10 AM Post #68 of 98


Quote:
What would be the best quality released pressing of "Kind of Blue"?
 
- Japanese press on Blue ray CD
 
- Japanese 100KHz / 24bit K2HD K2 HD CD
 
- Mastersound Gold CD
 
- Japanese SBM 24K GOLD CD OBI
 
- ???
 
THX
 
 

This is a difficult question to answer because of the number of releases this album has seen.  Very generally, with the exception of the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version, almost all of the digital versions sound pretty good and have something going for them. 
 
There are afaik four stereo mixes of Kind of Blue available - (although there are many different masters made from these four mixes).  The original Townsend mix from 1959, the direct to digital version for the Mastersound disc in 1992 (this was the first speed-corrected version made from the 'backup' tapes that were working properly), the 1997 mix that was done from these same 'backup' tapes to a modern two-track tape before transfer to digital, plus the Classic records 45rpm edition that was mastered in all analogue from those 1997 tapes.
 
The 1997 edition, which is the most commonly available in the stores today (and from which all post-97 releases have been based upon) was done as a 'flat' transfer, with no EQ adjustment, and has a lot of good qualities going for it - including being very 'up front' and engaging.  It does however, to some ears (and in my opinion, somewhat depending on equipment) sound quite strident in some places.  Davis' trumpet can be hard to listen to on some passages.  For this reason, many versions have the top end rolled off.  This also has the advantage of reducing the hiss that is omni-present in this version.  The also-currently available 2-disc Legacy version uses this same mix, but is mastered differently, being a bit warmer with some of that stridency reduced.  This is probably a safe bet if you are turned off by my description of the '97 sound.
 
The 1992 Mastersound direct to digital edition should have been, in many ways, the holy grail, but for whatever reason, it's not a favorite among many people.  It has a hiss that is sometimes described as very digital sounding, and has the widest stereo spread of all the releases I've heard.  In many places it is far too laid back.  On the other hand, this is a version that I can really get in to if I just listen and forget everything else.
 
One other option that is really nice is the original mono version, of which there is no CD available, but there is a very nice 24/96 version easily available.  This was done directly in the studio in 1959 and since the original tapes are missing, it hasn't had the opportunity to be fooled with the way the stereo version has.  It can be disconcerting at first since we are so used to the stereo spread, but the sound is very smooth and laid back, with no hint of the stridency that plagues many of the digital mixes.  For those bothered by the faux-echo of the stereo version, the mono makes for a nice listen.
 
Not sure I cleared anything up for you, but, well, there you go!  :)
 
 
 
Dec 5, 2011 at 4:46 AM Post #69 of 98

Many thanks for your replay, great info. Indeed, I did read about the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version with 6 tracks on it and it seems to be the very close to the original, so, kind of must have. I already own the Columbia SBM Legacy 1997 version made in Austria, which you can get all over the place for EUR 5 only. To me, it sounds pretty good and I dont have any troubles when speakers used, but with my K1000 its not that great, however acceptable. There are 2 others on their way, one Columbia Jazz Masterpieces with wrong speed and K2HD version.  After I got these, will be looking for CJM with 6 tracks and correct speed you mentioned and maybe will get the Blue CD version from Japan, thats it.
 
THX
Quote:
This is a difficult question to answer because of the number of releases this album has seen.  Very generally, with the exception of the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version, almost all of the digital versions sound pretty good and have something going for them. 
 
There are afaik four stereo mixes of Kind of Blue available - (although there are many different masters made from these four mixes).  The original Townsend mix from 1959, the direct to digital version for the Mastersound disc in 1992 (this was the first speed-corrected version made from the 'backup' tapes that were working properly), the 1997 mix that was done from these same 'backup' tapes to a modern two-track tape before transfer to digital, plus the Classic records 45rpm edition that was mastered in all analogue from those 1997 tapes.
 
The 1997 edition, which is the most commonly available in the stores today (and from which all post-97 releases have been based upon) was done as a 'flat' transfer, with no EQ adjustment, and has a lot of good qualities going for it - including being very 'up front' and engaging.  It does however, to some ears (and in my opinion, somewhat depending on equipment) sound quite strident in some places.  Davis' trumpet can be hard to listen to on some passages.  For this reason, many versions have the top end rolled off.  This also has the advantage of reducing the hiss that is omni-present in this version.  The also-currently available 2-disc Legacy version uses this same mix, but is mastered differently, being a bit warmer with some of that stridency reduced.  This is probably a safe bet if you are turned off by my description of the '97 sound.
 
The 1992 Mastersound direct to digital edition should have been, in many ways, the holy grail, but for whatever reason, it's not a favorite among many people.  It has a hiss that is sometimes described as very digital sounding, and has the widest stereo spread of all the releases I've heard.  In many places it is far too laid back.  On the other hand, this is a version that I can really get in to if I just listen and forget everything else.
 
One other option that is really nice is the original mono version, of which there is no CD available, but there is a very nice 24/96 version easily available.  This was done directly in the studio in 1959 and since the original tapes are missing, it hasn't had the opportunity to be fooled with the way the stereo version has.  It can be disconcerting at first since we are so used to the stereo spread, but the sound is very smooth and laid back, with no hint of the stridency that plagues many of the digital mixes.  For those bothered by the faux-echo of the stereo version, the mono makes for a nice listen.
 
Not sure I cleared anything up for you, but, well, there you go!  :)
 
 



 
 
Dec 6, 2011 at 12:10 AM Post #70 of 98
Well that stridence is only a bit of my dislike of the album, and I have the Legacy 2 disc version! Wow it must be really intense for my ears then...
It's not that I dislike the sound of it necessarily, not that I like it, but it just sounds distorted and throws me off when I listen to it. I might try the Classic Records 45rpm version sometime. The all analog(ue) part sounds like a good thing to me.
 
Quote:
This is a difficult question to answer because of the number of releases this album has seen.  Very generally, with the exception of the Columbia Jazz Masterpieces version, almost all of the digital versions sound pretty good and have something going for them. 
 
There are afaik four stereo mixes of Kind of Blue available - (although there are many different masters made from these four mixes).  The original Townsend mix from 1959, the direct to digital version for the Mastersound disc in 1992 (this was the first speed-corrected version made from the 'backup' tapes that were working properly), the 1997 mix that was done from these same 'backup' tapes to a modern two-track tape before transfer to digital, plus the Classic records 45rpm edition that was mastered in all analogue from those 1997 tapes.
 
The 1997 edition, which is the most commonly available in the stores today (and from which all post-97 releases have been based upon) was done as a 'flat' transfer, with no EQ adjustment, and has a lot of good qualities going for it - including being very 'up front' and engaging.  It does however, to some ears (and in my opinion, somewhat depending on equipment) sound quite strident in some places.  Davis' trumpet can be hard to listen to on some passages.  For this reason, many versions have the top end rolled off.  This also has the advantage of reducing the hiss that is omni-present in this version.  The also-currently available 2-disc Legacy version uses this same mix, but is mastered differently, being a bit warmer with some of that stridency reduced.  This is probably a safe bet if you are turned off by my description of the '97 sound.
 
The 1992 Mastersound direct to digital edition should have been, in many ways, the holy grail, but for whatever reason, it's not a favorite among many people.  It has a hiss that is sometimes described as very digital sounding, and has the widest stereo spread of all the releases I've heard.  In many places it is far too laid back.  On the other hand, this is a version that I can really get in to if I just listen and forget everything else.
 
One other option that is really nice is the original mono version, of which there is no CD available, but there is a very nice 24/96 version easily available.  This was done directly in the studio in 1959 and since the original tapes are missing, it hasn't had the opportunity to be fooled with the way the stereo version has.  It can be disconcerting at first since we are so used to the stereo spread, but the sound is very smooth and laid back, with no hint of the stridency that plagues many of the digital mixes.  For those bothered by the faux-echo of the stereo version, the mono makes for a nice listen.
 
Not sure I cleared anything up for you, but, well, there you go!  :)
 
 



 
 
Dec 6, 2011 at 12:34 AM Post #71 of 98


Quote:
Well that stridence is only a bit of my dislike of the album, and I have the Legacy 2 disc version! Wow it must be really intense for my ears then...
It's not that I dislike the sound of it necessarily, not that I like it, but it just sounds distorted and throws me off when I listen to it. I might try the Classic Records 45rpm version sometime. The all analog(ue) part sounds like a good thing to me.
 


 



Funny that the 'flat, no eq' transfer that we so often claim we want turns out to be difficult to listen to on most setups, huh?  :wink:  I find that mastering to be ok on my Woo feeding my D7000's, but pretty grating at times on almost anything else (including my Senn 580's to my surprise).
 
All of the other versions I described don't have this issue, as they've all been rolled off at the high frequencies.  The Legacy version, using that same '97 mix, but tamed a bit, is the closest in overall presentation but has greatly reduced hiss and little of that stridency.  The mono mix is by far the most laid-back if that's your thing.
 
Dec 6, 2011 at 12:38 AM Post #72 of 98
If flat sounds bad, your system isn't flat.
 
Dec 6, 2011 at 6:24 AM Post #74 of 98
Dec 6, 2011 at 6:58 AM Post #75 of 98

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