[Chris J]

Quote:

 

The only reason jazz was more vital and dynamic artform in the 50's (which it was) was because rock & roll hadn't emerged yet.  Jazz received all the attention.
 
 
You're sadly mis-guided.  Recording technology from the early 50's is 60 year old technology.  It may be good in studio but if it can't be effectively captured on a consumer format it is good for sh**.  Yes, overly compressed or "loud" digitally recorded music doesn't sound very good.  But when done right, digital is better.  Whether it's an original or remastered Kind of Blue or Love Supreme, they both pale in comparison SQ-wise to a well-recorded digital recording (Michael Brecker's "Pilgrimage" for example).  I listened to all 3 of these over the past few days and the SQ of Pilgrimage destroys the other two.  No comparison.
 
 

In terms of SQ, I would hold up KOB against just about any modern jazz recording....................
 
 

 

[baka1969]

…not to be a bummer, but I do not automatically associate smoking with jazz…probably because for at least half of the time I've been checking out jazz in clubs, many have been smoke-free. It's funny…back when Kind Of Blue was recorded, jazz was generally associated with heroin use (and as we all know, Miles, Coltrane and Bill Evans were pretty celebrated junkies, though Cannonball was clean as a whistle). I once heard Quincy Jones attribute the overall feel of that album to "the junkie tempo".

I guess what I'm getting at is how perceptions linger and change. Since I've never really smoked, I think my enjoyment of Kind Of Blue (and by extension, most jazz) has always been more about aesthetic stuff, like how its molecular structure or something can seem so simple and right…it's still a mystery how six human beings can make something so flawless, that speaks to soooo many people. I know that album like the back of my hand, but I can still marvel at it…

I was mostly trying to paint a mood. I wasn't even born until '69. Ten years after KoB was released. I have, though, been in many smoke filled bars, clubs and casinos. In the late 50s and early 60s more than half of men and a third of women smoked. Heck, just watch the program Mad Men. lol

I may have taken some artistic liberties but hope the mood I projected set a proper scene for listening to the album.

 

[LithoJazoSphere]

 
I almost bought HD-650s after someone described them with this image, even though I already have the HD-600. 

 

[mrpink44]

baka1969 - the image you set for the time period of KoB was spot-on. You weren't a social parriah for smoking back then.
 
tru blu's comment made me think back (I graduated with a history degree so have "spent" a lot of time in the past) - I have pictures of Vince Lombardi walking the sidelines during football games with a cig in had. I also love seeing the old footage of the NASA control center from teh 1960s - smoke everywhere and ashtrays on all the counters...and around all that electrical equipment! And I remember a friend telling me how he use to stand outside the window of the college his mom was attending and remembered her smoking in class with an ashtray on her desk....and that was in teh 1980s!
 
LithoJazoSphere - can I ask why you choose the HD600s over the 650s??? I've been eyeing up the 650s for awhile now so I'm just curious.

 

[baka1969]

baka1969 - the image you set for the time period of KoB was spot-on. You weren't a social parriah for smoking back then.

tru blu's comment made me think back (I graduated with a history degree so have "spent" a lot of time in the past) - I have pictures of Vince Lombardi walking the sidelines during football games with a cig in had. I also love seeing the old footage of the NASA control center from teh 1960s - smoke everywhere and ashtrays on all the counters...and around all that electrical equipment! And I remember a friend telling me how he use to stand outside the window of the college his mom was attending and remembered her smoking in class with an ashtray on her desk....and that was in teh 1980s!

LithoJazoSphere - can I ask why you choose the HD600s over the 650s??? I've been eyeing up the 650s for awhile now so I'm just curious.

In the late 70s I was visiting family in the hospital. It just so happens that my Aunt's friend's mother was also in the hospital ill. So I happen to stop by her room with my Aunt. My Aunt's friend's mother was smoking in her hospital bed! Smoking was allowed everywhere. Looking back, airplanes were death traps of smoke. Think of the poor airline stewardesses that had to be forced to breath all that?

Back to jazz. KoB, to me, fits that smokey image. The Birth of the Cool is another Miles album to recommend.

 

[baka1969]

I almost bought HD-650s after someone described them with this image, even though I already have the HD-600. 

Bingo! The picture I was looking for!

 

[tru blu]

…huge fan of Mad Men here, which is also interesting because, yeah, while smoking was everywhere, no one seems to associate, say, hospitals or workplaces or football games with it, just jazz. Interestingly enough, on the Mad Men episode where they kinda made a big deal about Miles Davis' Sketches Of Spain, it was the backdrop for the more illicit/illegal/hip activity of getting high. Comparatively, tobacco seemed innocuous. I'm not, um, "mad" at anyone, just wondering why that image still has such a hold on jazz.

 

[baka1969]

…huge fan of Mad Men here, which is also interesting because, yeah, while smoking was everywhere, no one seems to associate, say, hospitals or workplaces or football games with it, just jazz.

... I'm not, um, "mad" at anyone, just wondering why that image still has such a hold on jazz.

I suppose a smoke filled office isn't as interesting. I think most people tend to want to romanticize things. A smoke filled jazz club sort of sets that image I suspect.

 

[baka1969]

http://www.downhold.org/lowry/FireHC01.jpg

Not exactly the same feeling is it? lol

 

[LithoJazoSphere]

Quote:

LithoJazoSphere - can I ask why you choose the HD600s over the 650s??? I've been eyeing up the 650s for awhile now so I'm just curious.

 
To be honest, I occasionally second guess my decision, but here is my reasoning in my more sane moments.  When I bought the HD-600s my "serious" inventory consisted of SR-80is, HFI-780s, and XB-500s, so I wanted something very different and complementary to those.  I wanted something that was laid-back, neutral, open, clear, and detailed, and which would work well with a variety of genres, but especially for jazz, classical, folk and such.  My main concern was that I heard too many reports of the 650s being muddier and less clear in the mids and treble than the 600s, at least partly due to the 650's increased bass impact and recessed treble, in spite of their somewhat larger soundstage.  I'm a basshead, but the 780s and XB-500s (and now the Pro 900s, for that matter) have that region covered in spades, and clear treble and mids for saxophone in particular in jazz is more important than having the upright bass a bit more prominent.  The 600s are obviously cheaper, though that would not have mattered to me if I thought that the 650s better suited my needs.  I also prefer the blue finish on the 600s to the pewter of the 650s, not that I care about style that much.

 

[tru blu]

Quote:

http://www.downhold.org/lowry/FireHC01.jpg
Not exactly the same feeling is it? lol

Without question, no, but I think the bigger question might be, how often do folks who worship the old jazz records experience contemporary jazz in the flesh? As I said, for at least half of the 30 or so years I've been checking out great jazz the venues have been smoke-free. So if I ever had that association (and it's possible that I might have at the beginning, but I don't remember), it's long gone. Putting on Kind Of Blue or Saxophone Colossus or A Night of the Cookers or …at the Five Spot doesn't bring it back. I just find it interesting is all…
 

 

[jtaylor991]

Then that's sad how terrible recordings are today if this is true. The recdording quality of KOB is SO terrible. The instrument that gets the loudest (sax?) distorts terribly and the background is so grainy and dirty.
 
Quote:

In terms of SQ, I would hold up KOB against just about any modern jazz recording....................
 
 

 

 

[Blackmore]

I just bought another version of it, CBS pressing with wrong speed, just curious, nothing more.
 
Here is it guys http://www.kind-of-blue.de/seiten/boxen/miles_kob_box.htm
 
Enjoy!

 

[mrpink44]

Quote:

 
To be honest, I occasionally second guess my decision, but here is my reasoning in my more sane moments.  When I bought the HD-600s my "serious" inventory consisted of SR-80is, HFI-780s, and XB-500s, so I wanted something very different and complementary to those.  I wanted something that was laid-back, neutral, open, clear, and detailed, and which would work well with a variety of genres, but especially for jazz, classical, folk and such.  My main concern was that I heard too many reports of the 650s being muddier and less clear in the mids and treble than the 600s, at least partly due to the 650's increased bass impact and recessed treble, in spite of their somewhat larger soundstage.  I'm a basshead, but the 780s and XB-500s (and now the Pro 900s, for that matter) have that region covered in spades, and clear treble and mids for saxophone in particular in jazz is more important than having the upright bass a bit more prominent.  The 600s are obviously cheaper, though that would not have mattered to me if I thought that the 650s better suited my needs.  I also prefer the blue finish on the 600s to the pewter of the 650s, not that I care about style that much.

Thanks for the comments. So...I take it you are really happy with the 600's for jazz??? I'm looking for an open set and listen to jazz 90-95% of the time.
 
What do you drive them with as far as HP amps go??
 
Thanks again!!
 
 

 

[mrpink44]

Quote:

I just bought another version of it, CBS pressing with wrong speed, just curious, nothing more.
 
Here is it guys http://www.kind-of-blue.de/seiten/boxen/miles_kob_box.htm
 
Enjoy!

 Hey Blackmore - as you get around to comparing these different versions, would you mind sharing your thoughts??? I'm curious which you like better and if there is a signifigant difference??
 
Honestly, I've never thought much about it (I own the vinyl and one digital copy, but since I have the vinyl I never listen to the digital any more).