[rianchaos]

Quote:

 
Here are the measurements of iPod/Nano/iPhone:
 
http://sonove.angry.jp/RMAA/iPodClassic6_nano6_iPhone4.htm
 
I suspect some measurement error on link at http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/Z1060/Z1060TF10.htm because the measurement is seriously bad. I don't believe Inks is out to bash the Sony DAP. He is just availing objective measurements for potential buyers who are skeptical of subjective opinions.
 
If that measurement however turns out to be correct, it will mean that that the Z series walkman is extremely colored with a serious treble roll-off starting from 2kHz region.

by looking at the FR, the ipod classic6, nano6 and iphone4 should have more or less the same sound. I am SO buying the ipod nano 6 in then, same FR as iphone and 1/8 of its size

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

 
Tell me, how many people here who own the NWZ had listened to it in person before making the purchase?
 
If then, one has got to make a purchase decision based on (1) objective measurement, and (2) subjective opinions, (1) will be a much more reliable and offers a better guide for equipment matching, that is if one first understood what those graphs are telling him.
 
If one likes the sound even if the measurement does not reflect well, then its good anyway because we listen with our ears.
 
PS: It says a lot if anyone feels that the results of these objective measurements are made to bash the NWZ and tries to discredit them for what they are worth.

No offense, but it's kinda hilarious when you talked about how Walkmans are coloured, but your headphones aren't that neutral... 

And it seems that you're here to tell everyone that you're about to buy an iPod, which is quite out-of-topic. 

It's not that how much anyone feels that those objective measurements are made to bash the NW-Z, but it's more of how he came and seem like he's implementing something like "Oh, you all like the Walkman? Guess what? It's coloured, means it's no good, now, stop crediting it for what's it's worth and go get a DX100 or something". 

 

[uelover]

Quote:

• No offense, but it's kinda hilarious when you talked about how Walkmans are coloured, but your headphones aren't that neutral... 
• And it seems that you're here to tell everyone that you're about to buy an iPod, which is quite out-of-topic. 
• It's not that how much anyone feels that those objective measurements are made to bash the NW-Z, but it's more of how he came and seem like he's implementing something like "Oh, you all like the Walkman? Guess what? It's coloured, means it's no good, now, stop crediting it for what's it's worth and go get a DX100 or something". 

 
1. The measurement, if accurate, means that they are colored. Please look at the graph of the measurement.
2. I am making a reply to turokrock, please read the post in its context.
3. I cannot stop you from making extremist interpretation.

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

 
1. The measurement, if accurate, means that they are colored. Please look at the graph of the measurement.
2. I am making a reply to turokrock, please read the post in its context.
3. I cannot stop you from making extremist interpretation.

1. I never said they are colored or neutral, I'm just saying why you're complaining that they are coloured when your headphones aren't that neutral to start with.
2. Read it and don't think it really does anything to reply when someone asked you to try it, and not putting a gun in your head and outright asks you to buy it. 
3. Not that I'm making an extremist interpretation, but the way some people are bashing the Z as if it's not worth it at all is pretty uncalled for, especially for a thread that is meant for appreciation. 

 

[turokrocks]

Quote:

No offense, but it's kinda hilarious when you talked about how Walkmans are colored, but your headphones aren't that neutral... 

And it seems that you're here to tell everyone that you're about to buy an iPod, which is quite out-of-topic. 

It's not that how much anyone feels that those objective measurements are made to bash the NW-Z, but it's more of how he came and seem like he's implementing something like "Oh, you all like the Walkman? Guess what? It's colored, means it's no good, now, stop crediting it for what's it's worth and go get a DX100 or something". 

Guys, lets cool down, please.
 
Uelover, mentioned that the measurements; if correct, mean it is colored, just as a note.
 
We all enjoy to read different opinions and impressions, or I would have never came to Head-fi.

 

[uelover]

Quote:

1. I never said they are colored or neutral, I'm just saying why you're complaining that they are coloured when your headphones aren't that neutral to start with.
2. Read it and don't think it really does anything to reply when someone asked you to try it, and not putting a gun in your head and outright asks you to buy it. 
3. Not that I'm making an extremist interpretation, but the way some people are bashing the Z as if it's not worth it at all is pretty uncalled for, especially for a thread that is meant for appreciation. 

 
1. I never complain that they are colored. I am making a passive statement of what the measurement suggests - extreme coloration. The implication of this, if you understand it, is that it would create a lot of problem when one tries to match it with headphones. All headphones are colored and a flat source helps one to control the resulting FR better (aka synergy).
 
I myself have some doubts regarding the validity of these graphs. If the NWZ is one of the most neutral DAP as some of you guys claimed that it is, then this graph is at odds with that claim. So, it could only mean two things - (1) the graph is wrong or (2) this DAP is far from neutral.
 
If you look at the iPod measurement, it is very linear. The NWZ is like a roller coaster. I am led to believe that the graph is wrong because the FR for the NWZ is seriously ridiculous but this part is my speculation.
 
2. I can sense your extreme distaste at the mention of iPod or anything that is non-NWZ.
 
3. Nobody is bashing the Z to begin with. Inks just posted the results of the NWZ measurement and you had instantly suspected him for an attempt to bash the NWZ. He made an effort for the benefit of the head-fi community by offering an unbiased objective measurement and just because it doesn't look good, it invited an attack from you on his post. Yes, this is a thread for the discussion for the good and bad of the NWZ. One should not only try to promote the good and attempt to hide all the bad under the carpet. That is if the measurement is correct to begin with.

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

 
1. I never complain that they are colored. I am making a passive statement of what the measurement suggests - extreme coloration. The implication of this, if you understand it, is that it would create a lot of problem when one tries to match it with headphones. All headphones are colored and a flat source helps one to control the resulting FR better (aka synergy).
 
I myself have some doubts regarding the validity of these graphs. If the NWZ is one of the most neutral DAP as some of you guys claimed that it is, then this graph is at odds with that claim. So, it could only mean two things - (1) the graph is wrong or (2) this DAP is far from neutral.
 
If you look at the iPod measurement, it is very linear. The NWZ is like a roller coaster. I am led to believe that the graph is wrong because the FR for the NWZ is seriously ridiculous but this part is my speculation.
 
2. I can sense your extreme distaste at the mention of iPod or anything that is non-NWZ.
 
3. Nobody is bashing the Z to begin with. Inks just posted the results of the NWZ measurement and you had instantly suspected him for an attempt to bash the NWZ. He made an effort for the benefit of the head-fi community by offering an unbiased objective measurement and just because it doesn't look good, it invited an attack from you on his post. Yes, this is a thread for the discussion for the good and bad of the NWZ. One should not only try to promote the good and attempt to hide all the bad under the carpet. That is if the measurement is correct to begin with.

1. Firstly, no, I don't hate iPod or anything, I agree that the iPod is more neutral than the Walkman, but the Walkman is less fatiguing. 

2. As mentioned in #1, I don't hate the iPod, I used to love my iPod Touch. 

3. Okay, fine, maybe bashing is not the right word to use, discrediting will then work more. I know you can leave good or bad impressions, but don't you think it's unwise when so many fanboys are here? And also... his statement when posting the link is very suspicious... 

 

[uelover]

Quote:

3. Okay, fine, maybe bashing is not the right word to use, discrediting will then work more. I know you can leave good or bad impressions, but don't you think it's unwise when so many fanboys are here? And also... his statement when posting the link is very suspicious... 

 
Those measurements are really shocking and I think that bewilderment is the word is describe the emotion of anyone who understands them.
 
Yes, I know that there are many fanboys out there (which explains why I am treated like an enemy here). Should the graphs shows that the NWZ measures well, the fanboys here will praise Inks. If the graphs imply that the NWZ does not measure well, he will be treated like a villain.
 
I am not defending him but I believe that objective measurement are just as important as subjective opinions. Our own listening experience still takes priority over those two but for those head-fiers who have no opportunity to audition gears before making their purchase, information available on this thread is extremely crucial to them for making the right decision and I do not wish to see objective measurements being shot down and discredited, just like people do not wish to see their subjective experience being discredited either.
 
If these measurements are wrong, they will be corrected by some other people in time to come. Have more faith in your NWZ if you believe that it is that good.

 

[Jeremypsp]

Quote:

 
Those measurements are really shocking and I think that bewilderment is the word is describe the emotion of anyone who understands them.
 
Yes, I know that there are many fanboys out there (which explains why I am treated like an enemy here). Should the graphs shows that the NWZ measures well, the fanboys here will praise Inks. If the graphs imply that the NWZ does not measure well, he will be treated like a villain.
 
I am not defending him but I believe that objective measurement are just as important as subjective opinions. Our own listening experience still takes priority over those two but for those head-fiers who have no opportunity to audition gears before making their purchase, information available on this thread is extremely crucial to them for making the right decision and I do not wish to see objective measurements being shot down and discredited, just like people do not wish to see their subjective experience being discredited either.
 
If these measurements are wrong, they will be corrected by some other people in time to come. Have more faith in your NWZ if you believe that it is that good.

I think people bash him because he hasn't listened to it himself and started discrediting the the Z, and also, many people feel that their listening experience with the Z highly contradicts the charts which comes out as colored, so I can see why people are going against him. 

Personally, I was just adding that it's not so wise to show discredit for something when you're just going to get bashed endlessly, therefore my comment. I personally don't believe much in frequency charts, so yeah. 
 

 

[JCJiffy]

How about the lineout measurements?
 
http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/Z1060/Z1060LineOut.htm
 
I'm a total newbie when it comes to graphs for audio equipment, but (if the other graph is accurate) does this mean that the built-in AMP is introducing the supposed coloration?

 

[uelover]

Quote:

How about the lineout measurements?
 
http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/Z1060/Z1060LineOut.htm
 
I'm a total newbie when it comes to graphs for audio equipment, but (if the other graph is accurate) does this mean that the built-in AMP is introducing the supposed coloration?

 
The lineout measurement looks good.

 

[OK-Guy]

Quote:

The lineout measurement looks good.

 
that is probably the only productive thing you have said about the WM-Z in the entire thread.

 

[uelover]

Quote:

that is probably the only productive thing you have said about the WM-Z in the entire thread.

 
Positive you mean.

 

[turokrocks]

Quote:

 
The lineout measurement looks good.

I do agree that when the Z is connected to an amp thru LOD, it sounds much, much better!!!!!

 

[aerolord]

Quote:

I do agree that when the Z is connected to an amp thru LOD, it sounds much, much better!!!!!

Definitely can agree to this 

 
Loving my new setup