New PC Music Server Build Project - All SSD - No Fans

[rb2013]

 
The PPA V2 USB card is very well reviewed, even used in some high-end systems and it is not super expensive, he has different models, I suggest the V2:
http://ppaproduct.blogspot.tw/2013/07/audio-grade-usb-30-pcie-card.html
 
I am not sure why there has been so many good reviews on audiophile SATA cables, but if I were building a new system, I would probably start with something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Tek-Non-Scratch-Mechanism-CP08/dp/B005U8XJO6/ref=sr_1_8?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1423791294&sr=1-8&keywords=sata+3+cable
I am using PPA slim red SATA, but have never compared to a generic cable. I hope that someone with enterprise server experience will comment if there are any heavy duty commercial grade cables used for critical applications (that do not cost 300 USD each !!)  I think there was a mention by a cable supplier that they did some tests and 40 cm was optimal length.
 
The stock U12 driver works rock-solid with WIN2012 Server in core mode. To get the SQ benefits of Win Server, you need to run in minimum GUI or core. AO makes that very easy, adds to SQ improvement and allows for OS processing options to tweak the sound to your liking. JPlay allows buffer adjustments for different file resolutions and a very streamlined very basic player.  
 
The NOFAN works great for audio, but besides the case fitting, you need be careful of RAM height (no tall heat sinks) and you will lose some PCI slots. I am using a Gigabyte GA-Z87M-D3H, with I5-4670t..

Great info - Thanks!  I have always used the Red cables I found somewhere along the line.  I'll try the Silverstone's - they are reasonable enough.  Right now with the big WB Black 2TB drives I'm only needing three for each server.
 
Very cool picture! Love it
 
PS Thanks for reminding about the Paul Pang card - I had heard good things about it.  Have you tried the V2 versus the V3 or V4?  I would rather put money into a great USB card then a fancy case or super HP CPU.  I see he uses Server 2012 (2) as well with ASIO and Foobar 2000.
Cheers!

 

 

[bwmarrin]

   
I hope that someone with enterprise server experience will comment if there are any heavy duty commercial grade cables used for critical applications (that do not cost 300 USD each !!)  I think there was a mention by a cable supplier that they did some tests and 40 cm was optimal length.  

 
I work on enterprise servers all day.  Most of them don't have normal SATA cables at all because all the drives connect into a backplane that uses different connection methods to the motherboard depending on the server.  Some of the servers that do use normal SATA cables uasually just have wires that look pretty much the same as the run of the mill cables you get with a decent motherboard.  Actually, some of the nice gaming motherboards I've gotten have much better looking cables (as it, better built, more heavy duty)
 
I've never ever had to make any special consideration or anything for SATA cables in a server regardless of how import the role of the server is or how many millions of dollars in transactions it might process.   As long as it's not a damaged or somehow very very poorly made cable they work fine.  I am skeptical about them being able to have the slightest sound difference on audio.  I'm always open to learning and I'd love to know some technical details on how it's possible.  But, I'd personally stick to any well made SATA cable and I'd try to avoid something overly long - mostly for cosmetic reasons though.  I would think, given how some servers handle very sensitive things like millions of dollars in transacitons - that if there was a conern about SATA cables not deliverying a bit-perfect connection that it would get a LOT of attention and fixed.  I mean, think about a bank system having transactions get altered or messed up due to a SATA cable?  If that was the case they'd be using 100k cables if needed to insure the accuracy but I've never seen anything except normal run of the mill cables in a server.

 

[rb2013]

   
I work on enterprise servers all day.  Most of them don't have normal SATA cables at all because all the drives connect into a backplane that uses different connection methods to the motherboard depending on the server.  Some of the servers that do use normal SATA cables uasually just have wires that look pretty much the same as the run of the mill cables you get with a decent motherboard.  Actually, some of the nice gaming motherboards I've gotten have much better looking cables (as it, better built, more heavy duty)
 
I've never ever had to make any special consideration or anything for SATA cables in a server regardless of how import the role of the server is or how many millions of dollars in transactions it might process.   As long as it's not a damaged or somehow very very poorly made cable they work fine.  I am skeptical about them being able to have the slightest sound difference on audio.  I'm always open to learning and I'd love to know some technical details on how it's possible.  But, I'd personally stick to any well made SATA cable and I'd try to avoid something overly long - mostly for cosmetic reasons though.  I would think, given how some servers handle very sensitive things like millions of dollars in transacitons - that if there was a conern about SATA cables not deliverying a bit-perfect connection that it would get a LOT of attention and fixed.  I mean, think about a bank system having transactions get altered or messed up due to a SATA cable?  If that was the case they'd be using 100k cables if needed to insure the accuracy but I've never seen anything except normal run of the mill cables in a server.

Damn!  I was going to blame those Banks SATA cables for my checking account showing overdrawn.

 

 

[bwmarrin]

 
Damn!  I was going to blame those Banks SATA cables for my checking account showing overdrawn.

 

Oh, don't stop on my behalf. Please do. Call them up today and explain to them how the error could be due to run of the mill SATA cables and they should invest in some megabuck sata cable.  Use lots of similar audiophile speak but make it sound more technical.  Maybe you could even demand to speak with their server engineer and go at it with that person for a bit.
 
Oh, also.  Please record the whole call because I want that on youtube!

 

[rb2013]

 
Oh, don't stop on my behalf. Please do. Call them up today and explain to them how the error could be due to run of the mill SATA cables and they should invest in some megabuck sata cable.  Use lots of similar audiophile speak but make it sound more technical.  Maybe you could even demand to speak with their server engineer and go at it with that person for a bit.
 
Oh, also.  Please record the whole call because I want that on youtube!

LOL!

  That would be Youtube winner!

 

[ST4RL]

Where did you find Windows 10? Only technical previews are available.

 

[motberg]

 
Great info - Thanks!  I have always used the Red cables I found somewhere along the line.  I'll try the Silverstone's - they are reasonable enough.  Right now with the big WB Black 2TB drives I'm only needing three for each server.
 
Very cool picture! Love it
 
PS Thanks for reminding about the Paul Pang card - I had heard good things about it.  Have you tried the V2 versus the V3 or V4?  I would rather put money into a great USB card then a fancy case or super HP CPU.  I see he uses Server 2012 (2) as well with ASIO and Foobar 2000.
Cheers!

 

Hi, I have not tried the PPA V3/4 card - that one is pretty expensive. At least one owner of both cards with a high-end rig had reported that the V3 was more to the bright/detail side of things, so he stayed with the V2 as far as I know..
 
bwmarrin - thanks for the SATA cable perspective.. someone had mentioned that maybe the different type wires (I think most the audiophile cables use silver) could be acting as filters. So perhaps the folks reporting SQ improvements have some other issues that the silver is helping fix... Sometime this year I may possibly put together another computer (with Silverstone SATA wires) to try the JPlay StreamerMode idea, but I really do not need the extra convenience. If I needed to see album cover art and use something like FooBar or JRiver for navigation, then StreamerMode would be a higher priority for me.. Now I am using JPlay Mini and Total Commander with JPlay in hibernate mode for .wav files off internal SSD,so I cannot see how the SQ could improve much in streamer mode unless I start upsampling or some other on the fly processing. The extra money that would be needed to get the second computer perhaps would be best spent on the grand-kids (or maybe saving for new speakers 

..)

 

[rb2013]

Where did you find Windows 10? Only technical previews are available.

It should be out in about 6 months.  Win 8/8.1 is such a horrific mess, I'll bypass that.  Win Server 2012 (2) looks interesting but is $600 for a full versions, $400 for the student version.  That's rich.  I need OS software for 2 servers - so from what I can tell 2012 is licensed for up to 25 machine - but not sure on the CLA issue.  Typical Microsoft - money grabbers!
 
Also my music servers are not connected to the Internet - so that rules out W8/8.1 - as from I can tell it won;t operate with an Internet login.  Does that apply to Server 2012 (2) as well?  I have to research that.  Will W10 also require this Internet login (so MS can download your user history!).  At this point it may be time to leave the MS train and hop on board the Linux train.
 
And this the reason I began this thread - thinking this all through before I start doling out cash.  Or chasing dead ends.

 

[abartels]

 
It should be out in about 6 months.  Win 8/8.1 is such a horrific mess, I'll bypass that.  Win Server 2012 (2) looks interesting but is $600 for a full versions, $400 for the student version.  That's rich.  I need OS software for 2 servers - so from what I can tell 2012 is licensed for up to 25 machine - but not sure on the CLA issue.  Typical Microsoft - money grabbers!
 
Also my music servers are not connected to the Internet - so that rules out W8/8.1 - as from I can tell it won;t operate with an Internet login.  Does that apply to Server 2012 (2) as well?  I have to research that.  Will W10 also require this Internet login (so MS can download your user history!).  At this point it may be time to leave the MS train and hop on board the Linux train.
 
And this the reason I began this thread - thinking this all through before I start doling out cash.  Or chasing dead ends.

 
Hi RB2013
 
You will need a 2012R2 license for BOTH machines. Did you lookup the Ms Dreamspark website? They offer Server 2012 FOR FREE FOR STUDENTS, i suppose you know
students who could help you out there??
 
Server 2012's SQ compares 100% to Server 2012R2, so don't worry if you can get Server 2012 instead of R2 version.
 
About the internet account needed in W8.1: 
 
When you install W8.1 you need an MS ID to logon, but, after you're ready whith all installation tasks you can setup a local account, so you really dont need to use the internetaccount to logon to your machines!!
Server 2012 creates a LOCAL account, so don't worry 

 
Don't go the linux path. SQ is not compareble with Server 2012.
 
GO for the MS Dreamspark option, ask your friends, they can help you.
 
Question:
Is English your native language? You need English OS or?
 
PM me!!

 

[motberg]

I am not an IT pro, but this is what I understand.. When you install the Windows Server evaluation files, it is best to have your computer connected to the Internet so the install gets registered (you may get some unexpected shutdowns during inactivity if not registered). After the install you can disconnect the computer until you decide to license. The evaluation period is 180 days and can be extended (re-armed) a couple times without internet connection.., so there is some time to check if it is worth the cost.
Here is a AO website.. (the free manual is informative and also can check the reviews for AO)..
http://www.highend-audiopc.com/
more reviews at computeraudiophile and JPlay forums. 
A student license for Windows Server Essentials is maybe the cheapest option AFAIK.

 

[bwmarrin]

 
It should be out in about 6 months.  Win 8/8.1 is such a horrific mess, I'll bypass that.  Win Server 2012 (2) looks interesting but is $600 for a full versions, $400 for the student version.  That's rich.  I need OS software for 2 servers - so from what I can tell 2012 is licensed for up to 25 machine - but not sure on the CLA issue.  Typical Microsoft - money grabbers!
 
Also my music servers are not connected to the Internet - so that rules out W8/8.1 - as from I can tell it won;t operate with an Internet login.  Does that apply to Server 2012 (2) as well?  I have to research that.  Will W10 also require this Internet login (so MS can download your user history!).  At this point it may be time to leave the MS train and hop on board the Linux train.
 
And this the reason I began this thread - thinking this all through before I start doling out cash.  Or chasing dead ends.

 
Just FYI.  Windows Server 2012 is Windows 8 + Server components.  It's the same overall feel and interface so if you're not fond of Windows 8 then you're probably not going to like Server 2012 either.  Personally, I hate it, both Win8 and Server 2012, hate working on them.. It's the worst version of windows that has ever been created   Of course that's my personal thoughts, I'm sure there are people who do like it.
 
Win8 does work without an internet login.  It's not obvious but when you first set it up you can bypass creating the Microsoft ID stuff. 
 
You should be able to download a trial of Windows Server.  So I'd say, try out a trial before you spend money to buy it.  Because, as you've noticed, it's not cheap.

 

[htr2d2]

   
Just FYI.  Windows Server 2012 is Windows 8 + Server components.  It's the same overall feel and interface so if you're not fond of Windows 8 then you're probably not going to like Server 2012 either.  Personally, I hate it, both Win8 and Server 2012, hate working on them.. It's the worst version of windows that has ever been created   Of course that's my personal thoughts, I'm sure there are people who do like it.
 
Win8 does work without an internet login.  It's not obvious but when you first set it up you can bypass creating the Microsoft ID stuff. 
 
You should be able to download a trial of Windows Server.  So I'd say, try out a trial before you spend money to buy it.  Because, as you've noticed, it's not cheap.

If you going to use either Window 8/8.1 or Server 2012/2012 R2, I advise downloading Classic Shell, http://classicshell.net. Gives you the Windows 7/2008 R2 feel. The problem with 8/2012R2 is the licensing. If it does not have access to the internet, Microsoft, you have two options, call them on the phone and get a key code (not your license key) or break the mechanism that periodically check-in with Microsoft using highly questionable software and possibly illegal methods. Bloody nuisance!
 
Best to stick with 7/2008 R2 or move to Linux!

 
*******
Edit: Just read the whole thread. You made your choice to go with Server 2012 R2. Apologies.

 

[rb2013]

Htr2d2 - no worries, after seeing the price tag (unless I can go the 'student route') it looks like W10 is back on the table.  Especially if MS retains the W8/8.1 login and W10 has the same work around as mentioned above (hopefully it's done away with completely AND the stupid tile 'Apps Store' desktop).
 
Thanks for all the great posts and help everyone!  This is all kinda pulling together - so much misinformation out there (like the supposedly unavoidable Win 8/8.1bootup login issue)
 
Your kind support is what I was hoping for when I started the thread - I'm sure I'm not the only person with this dilemma out there.
 
So right now I plan on getting started, so to speak, by upgrading my current music servers to SSD's and continue to use W7 in the meantime.  I will then use one of the spare drives to load a trial version of Server 2012 and another W10-beta to see how they sound.
 
I'll get some fanless PS units as they are cheap ($119 for this really nice one):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182169&cm_re=fanless-_-17-182-169-_-Product
And the fanless CPU cooler as mentioned before for my current iCore5's.  Same for a Pang V2 USb card - maybe V3.
 
I also explored the NUC path as outlined on Computer Audiophile - with an eye toward the Broadwell-U release.  As you can see that the CAPSV4 uses the Haswell-U.  The NUC is a cheaper path to a fanless music server -
http://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXD54250WYKH1-Core-i5-4250U-Graphics/dp/B00HZDLNWO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1424059825&sr=8-1&keywords=nuc
The issue with the CAPS4 - NUC route for me is my need for massive storage (right now the need for 4 SSD's per machine), but it may work great of other folks with smaller music archive collections.  
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/620-caps-v4-maroubra-and-bundoran/
 
Once Broadwell releases - I'll look at what is cooking with Skylake to determine if it's worth waiting for.  Once the processor decision is made, and after a OS SQ evaluation then I'll make the final OS choice.  At that point I'll have most of the work done.
 
 
Side Note: Just a tip for folks out there - and PC maintenance - to save you a whole lot of headaches.  Replace the MB CMOS battery every year!   This has saved me countless - hard to diagnose PC issues.
And defrag and do a 'bad sectors' search on your HD's once a year, after a BKup. http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Replacing-the-Motherboard-Battery/81
 
I'll continue to report on my progress...

 

[abartels]

If anyone's interested, I've got 2 unused Server 2012 Standard (English) (NOT essentials) licenses.
PM me if you're interested.
 
There's 1 left

 

[Danny86]

In terms of Power supplies, Super Flower Leadex Gold 750W is getting excellent Ripple measurements, closing in on Linear PSUs while being super affordable and convenient:
 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/SuperFlower/SF-750F14MG/9.html
 
I would consider it before spending top dollar on LPSU.