New PC Music Server Build Project - All SSD - No Fans

[bwmarrin]

I meant the Seasonic, not the USB supplies (when I said "desktop" I meant desktop computer

). Deadbeef worked perfectly with my Audioquest Dragonfly for a long time, it seems to be just as good as Foobar (maybe with the exception of plugins, but I didn't use any to find out).

 
Ah, thanks   The others are not USB power supplies, btw.  They actually are power supplies for the computer itself.
 
For what it's worth, I've got a Seasonic PSU in my home computer and I've never had any problems.

 

[rb2013]

  Are you familiar with Computer Audiophile and the C.A.P.S.?  
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/section/c-p-s-489/
 
I did a spin off of it by using the following from  A-Tech Fabrication http://www.atechfabrication.com
 
HeatSync Mini-Client 2800HP Fanless PC = http://www.atechfabrication.com/HeatSync_2800HP_system_order_form.htm
 
For storage I use:
Mass Storage 2500 unit = http://www.atechfabrication.com/mass_storage_2500_order_form.htm
 
The SOtM USB card = http://sotm-audio.com/sotm/products/tX-USBexp.htm
 
All three are being powered by a Custom TeraDak linear PSU
 

 

 

 

Hey thanks for the link, pics and info.  Very nice PSU!
 
Yes very familiar with CA.  Been a fan from almost the beginning.  I checked out the cost at $1800 for the CPU/MB/PS/Case I would be way over budget.
 
For the SSD's I need are $1300.  So that leaves $1200 for the above.  Since this machine is not for gaming - just a dedicated music server -an iCore 7 is overkill for me.
 
My current music servers are iCore 5's and are doing the job - processing power wise.  But they are 4 yrs old and need updating.
 
Since it will be W10 based I have a little time for the new tic-tock to become available.  I'm thinking with a Broadwell-H TOLT or a BOLT Skylake that should do it.
 
I'm also interested in the new audio dsp function set Intel is building into these CPU's

 

[rb2013]

  I came here to suggest that exact desktop power supply, looks like you've got things covered in terms of getting clean power (you went even farther than I would've). My only suggestion is to buy a cheap USB cable that has aluminum shielding around the conductors, and ferrite chokes on both ends. Good luck, seems like you've got this down to an art as it is

.
 
Only thing I'm wondering is why wait for Broadwell? I haven't been keeping up on the Intel CPU news much, but estimates I've seen usually say very late 2015 or early-mid 2016 for 14 nm (since node size shrinks are becoming very difficult to implement). Maybe you'd be better off with Haswell? The power draw is already quite low with 22 nm, especially with all the power saving features enabled.
 
Edit: Also I'm not sure if Windows 10 will support USB Audio Class 2.0 (without drivers from the DAC/DAC chipset company), but if you switch the computer to Ubuntu your DAC should work and be able to use it. The player Deadbeef is practically the exact same as Foobar, the only thing you would have to learn is how to output to the ALSA driver for bit-perfect out. It's not really important and shouldn't affect sound quality in any way, but it would be nice to use if you can get comfortable with Ubuntu (also it's lighter on resources than Windows, especially RAM).

Thanks Todd for the input!  Well the schedule for the Broadwell release should be around May 2015 for the desktop version.  Ultra low power consumption for the 14nm - means low heat as well.  Which means lower cost as expensive heat piping and heat sinking won't likely be needed for fanless CPU cooling - or case cooling for that matter.  Just need a basic mid ATX case to keep the cost down - space is not a concern for me.  The extra airspace inside should keep it cool enough - i may even leave one side open.
 
I have so much time and energy invested with foobar - and with the SoX free upsampler on Redbook - naive on my digitalized (32/176K) LPs,SACDs, DVD-A's the sound is excellent.  I have my own tagging/file organizing system (2,882 CDs, 367+ LPs, another 223 SACD/DVD-A's) and 100 custom playlists.  So I just want to port that over to the new machine.  Copy the 3+ TB of music files and start listening. 
 
My music servers are NEVER connected to the Internet - no updates.  They have been running for over 3yrs without a single blue screen.  All these pushed updates are nightmare.  All my foobar and diver updates and new music loads are done by USB stick.
 
I may want to try using one of the old servers to mess with linux though - after the build.
 
Running the excellent AC powered Gustard U12 USB interfaces on both systems to great effect - USB cable is the excellent Synergistic Research Tesla on one system and the Silnote Poseidon on the other.  All these are much - too much - interface and cable rolling.

 

[rb2013]

   
With the cases posted here - they are designed for normal CPUs.  They have a special "heatpipe" heatsink that mounts from the CPU to the chassis itself to provide cooling.  The one I posted had spec's cases that worked for up to 90w CPU's which covers almost anything these days.   A Core i3 would absolutely work.  These are not the only options either I think there's a handful of other companies that use a similar design to build a fanless system with modern desktop CPUs.
 
However, speaking of Atom, why is it off the list?  I've actually got a MiniITX Atom board.  I should try to put it together and try it out as a music box with Deadbeef.

Is there space and hook ups in there for four SSD's?  Well the Atom may be ok - horsepower wise with an efficient linux distro - but with WIN10 likely not so much.
 
In my research so far Atom was not given very good reviews.  Anyway with Broadwell-U/-H about to launch why not. (see Intel's marketing slide on the improvements).
Official release of Win 10 is off a little ways - so I have a bit of time.

 

[bwmarrin]

 
Is there space and hook ups in there for four SSD's?  Well the Atom may be ok - horsepower wise with an efficient linux distro - but with WIN10 likely not so much.
 
In my research so far Atom was not given very good reviews.  Anyway with Broadwell-U/-H about to launch why not. (see Intel's marketing slide on the improvements).
Official release of Win 10 is off a little ways - so I have a bit of time.

 
Yeah, I'd agree.  An Atom with Windows might be a bit lacking.  Why Windows 10, btw - instead of Win7?  Just curious.
 
Space for four SSDs might be tough, I don't think either of those do, directly.  atech fab has a matching case for "attached storage" so you could fit 4 3.5in drives and connect to them via a SATA cable.  Though, the atech fab stuff looks pretty pricey.  I get some more free time I'll see if I can find a similar case with space for four SSDs.
 
Have you considered using a NAS? So that all your media can be in one place, sorted, and backed up?  Then all your computers could access the same data.  Then you would only need a single smaller SSD for each music computer.

 

[bwmarrin]

Duplicate Post.

 

[bwmarrin]

 
 Which means lower cost as expensive heat piping and heat sinking won't likely be needed for fanless CPU cooling - or case cooling for that matter.  Just need a basic mid ATX case to keep the cost down - space is not a concern for me.  The extra airspace inside should keep it cool enough - i may even leave one side open.

 
I'd agree with this, too.  Save the cost of those fancy cases and buy more music, or for the cost of some you could get a whole new pair of headphones!

 

[rb2013]

   
Yeah, I'd agree.  An Atom with Windows might be a bit lacking.  Why Windows 10, btw - instead of Win7?  Just curious.
 
Space for four SSDs might be tough, I don't think either of those do, directly.  atech fab has a matching case for "attached storage" so you could fit 4 3.5in drives and connect to them via a SATA cable.  Though, the atech fab stuff looks pretty pricey.  I get some more free time I'll see if I can find a similar case with space for four SSDs.
 
Have you considered using a NAS? So that all your media can be in one place, sorted, and backed up?  Then all your computers could access the same data.  Then you would only need a single smaller SSD for each music computer.

I have heard that W10 sounds better the W8 which sounds better then W7 (see ABartels comments on the Gustard U12 thread).  The good news it looks like the stock W8 Gustard U12 Xmos Thesycon drivers are compatible with W10 - (see Chodi's comments on the Gustard thread.)  So it looks like game on.
 
Since I'm using the Gustard for USB duty - the issue of USB 2.0 support in W10 is a mute point.
 
Anyway W7 is getting long in the tooth - if I'm going to buy another OS it will be the newest one. 
 
I run two separate music servers -one in my listening room on my main speaker and headphone system.  Another mirror system in my office.  These have separate U12's feeding very extensive tubed DACs.  For my office system I just built a new tubed R2R DAC project - the results have blown me away SQ wise.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/740362/lite-dac60-pcm1704-r2r-tubed-dac-mod-project.
 
Each server has over 3TB of music files - I just did a new CD folder count 2,822 (26,011 WAV song files)over 1TB.  Each CD is burnt using EAC (Exact Audio Copy) that reads each bit up to sixteen times before it's recorded, the image is then compared on-line using AccurateRip to corresponding iso image in a database to ensure exact bit for bit replication.
 
And that's just the CD's another 367 digitalized LP's (my new count) that I digitalized at 32bit 176K sampling using a ProAudio ADC (AKM 32 bit ADC chips) - that's almost 1T alone.  Then I have almost an equal amount of SACD's and DVD-As and Ultra Hi Res down loads (192K and 384K) another 1TB. I purchase 10 cd's and a half dozen brand new LPs a month to add to the collection.  Most of my LPs where recorded on my old analog system - near SOTA $40K+ (VPI table, Dynavector XV1S cart, CJ tube Pre, Bent Step-up Trannies).  This process of archiving my LP's took over a year, with three months of rolling different ADCs to find one I liked and optimizing the sample rate(176K actually sounded batter the 192K).  Pro Audio Steinberg WaveLab 6.0 was the software used for the digitalization.  I have since sold that analog system and replaced it with a much cheaper one. All the CD's, SACD's, DVD-A's and most of the LP's go into storage after archiving.
 
So each server needs at least 3TB of storage with headroom for more, not including OS - which is always kept on a separate drive - again for anti-viral protection.  Usually a virus will infect the main drive with the OS.  I know this sounds paranoid - but I have put so much work into building these music files.
 
Each system acts as completely separate back-up for the other.  Very little risk of viral contamination across platforms.  CD's are burnt on a separate well defended system using EAC -the wave files generated go through a second viral scan on another machine (I run 5 separate PCs in my office), before the WAV files are transferred to my servers.  These music severs never see an Internet connection.  The problem with backups - they can get contaminated with the original viruses as well.  That happened to me along time ago -a very nasty root-kit virus that ruined the backup as well.
 
I do keep two 2TB USB 3.0 portable HD backups offsite for fire risk security.

 

[motberg]

I have just skimmed the thread quickly, but have a few items to add.
The OS drive probably should be as small as possible... so that would save some significant cost.
If you have an appropriate environment (dedicated listening room), then consider no computer case (use ATX test bench with granite base) or a cheap big case and  NOFAN CR-95c CPU cooler - that would give you more flexibility on CPU selection.
I did not see any mention of SATA cables. Maybe the audiophile models are not cost effective, but perhaps good to consider the proper types and lengths.
Also maybe consider some version of Windows Server over Windows 10. I would at least try an WIN2012 Server R2 evaluation edition in minimal server mode - if you are using good DAC's there may be significant upgrade to SQ compared to normal Windows.

 

[bwmarrin]

I'm a bit curious on a technical level what causes a sound difference from Win7, 8, 10, Server?
 
When using ASIO/WASAPI isn't it bypassing the Windows sound system entirely and going directly to the DAC? 
 
Oh, and Bob.. Sounds like I need to come visit you to peek around that music library
 
I'd also be curious on a technical level what an audiophile sata cable does? 
 
That NOFAN cooler looks awesome, might be something I'll try out someday.  The fan in my HTPC is sometimes a noticeable - which I don't like.

 

[abartels]

  I have just skimmed the thread quickly, but have a few items to add.
The OS drive probably should be as small as possible... so that would save some significant cost.
If you have an appropriate environment (dedicated listening room), then consider no computer case (use ATX test bench with granite base) or a cheap big case and  NOFAN CR-95c CPU cooler - that would give you more flexibility on CPU selection.
I did not see any mention of SATA cables. Maybe the audiophile models are not cost effective, but perhaps good to consider the proper types and lengths.
Also maybe consider some version of Windows Server over Windows 10. I would at least try an WIN2012 Server R2 evaluation edition in minimal server mode - if you are using good DAC's there may be significant upgrade to SQ compared to normal Windows.

+1 I agree, have AudioPC (Core mode) + ControlPC, both running on server 2012R2 (with AO and JPlay). Never heard a better source 

 
 
And the best, U12 drivers work on Server 2012(R2)

 

[abartels]

Guys,
 
I didn't try SQ of W10, just read some posts about it being better then W8, MAYBE it's compareble with SQ Server 2012(R2).
And, if you're a student, or know a student, students can get FREE version of Server 2012 with registered WORKING serial.
 
It is called: Microsoft Dreamspark, see:
https://www.dreamspark.com/Product/Product.aspx?productid=42
 
I assure you, once you tried SQ Server 2012 you wont go back, never.

 

[rb2013]

  Guys,
 
I didn't try SQ of W10, just read some posts about it being better then W8, MAYBE it's compareble with SQ Server 2012(R2).
And, if you're a student, or know a student, students can get FREE version of Server 2012 with registered WORKING serial.
 
It is called: Microsoft Dreamspark, see:
https://www.dreamspark.com/Product/Product.aspx?productid=42
 
I assure you, once you tried SQ Server 2012 you wont go back, never.

+1 Hi- thanks for the clarification.  How would you rate W8 vs Server 2012?

 

[bwmarrin]

Just digging up info on PSUs.  Looks like the 520W Seasonic might have better measurements for ripple/noise.
 
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Seasonic/SS-460FL_V2/9.html
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Seasonic/SS-520FL/9.html

 

[rb2013]

  I have just skimmed the thread quickly, but have a few items to add.
The OS drive probably should be as small as possible... so that would save some significant cost.
If you have an appropriate environment (dedicated listening room), then consider no computer case (use ATX test bench with granite base) or a cheap big case and  NOFAN CR-95c CPU cooler - that would give you more flexibility on CPU selection.
I did not see any mention of SATA cables. Maybe the audiophile models are not cost effective, but perhaps good to consider the proper types and lengths.
Also maybe consider some version of Windows Server over Windows 10. I would at least try an WIN2012 Server R2 evaluation edition in minimal server mode - if you are using good DAC's there may be significant upgrade to SQ compared to normal Windows.

++1 Well thanks!  That's two votes for W2012 Server R2 over W7 certainly.  Does Server use a different kernel then the W7, W8, (W10?)?  Or is there another reason for the possible SQ improvement.
 
After reading the issues over on the Gustard U12 thread with Thesycon driver install - I'm a little hesitant on 2012 ServerR2.
 
I will checkout that case option - I do need some kind of case -as these music servers sit on a bottom shelf on an open credenza.  I'm all  in favor of a big cheap case.
 
Of all the tweeking and rolling of cables - the ones I have never rolled are the SATA cables!  But I will - any suggestions for brand and length would be helpful.  Thanks!