acs236
Headphoneus Supremus
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Ahhh, well that's better then. Since I don't care too much about size, I'm still hoping for a Nomad 3 price reduction.
New Nomad Jukebox ZEN
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mnemonic
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Quote:
I don't mean to sound like an ass here, but...
How do you know the scroll wheel is not as usable as the iPod's? The 3rd to last negative is inclusive of the last 3 (I would have considered this OK if the list had been labeled "some criticisms" instead of "major negatives"). Also, compared to the iPod, the USB 1.1 is an advantage since the iPod only has firewire (and very useful, since the vast majority of PC's only have USB and no firewire). Also, the proprietary file system is not entirely a curse. It's specially optimized such that the mp3s played consecutively are stored physically closer to each other on the disk, saving power since the hard drive heads don't need to move as great a distance (the battery life for the Zen is said to be 12hrs). Software used to transfer files from a computer to the Zen can fit on a floppy disk (I assume this because such is the case with the NJB3).
Tag information for the mp3s is also stored separately so the entire mp3 files don't need to be "scanned" in order to extract the tag info, so lists of them based on the info can be generated quickly.
Does anyone know what the signal to noise ratio for the iPod is? I could not find the info on Apple's website.
The iPod does have some useful (so I've heard) non-audio advantages, like the storable contacts and calendar. I've also heard some people have modded it to run custom applications.
Oh and about the similar physical shapes of the iPod and Zen; the hard drives are probably both 1.5" rectangular ones (I know Apple purchases theirs from Toshiba, might be the same for the Zen), so it would seem both casing designs are intended to fit the shape of the internal components best, to make them compact.
| Originally posted by Taphil Ok, major negatives: - small, low res screen - it's only ~$50 cheaper than the 10GB iPod (the Zen is 10GB also) - control buttons are strangely placed on both side panels, nothing on the front - scroll wheel isn't as functional or easy to use as ipod's - USB 1.1 (why not just make it 2.0) - proprietary disk format - pitiful PlayCenter3 software software - slow release of firmware updates - if it's like the NJB3, it'll have some major bugs when released - poor customer support - poor warranty service/repair (compared to Apple's 48-hour turnaround time at no cost whatsoever) - 90-day warranty (compared to iPod's 1-year warranty) |
I don't mean to sound like an ass here, but...
How do you know the scroll wheel is not as usable as the iPod's? The 3rd to last negative is inclusive of the last 3 (I would have considered this OK if the list had been labeled "some criticisms" instead of "major negatives"). Also, compared to the iPod, the USB 1.1 is an advantage since the iPod only has firewire (and very useful, since the vast majority of PC's only have USB and no firewire). Also, the proprietary file system is not entirely a curse. It's specially optimized such that the mp3s played consecutively are stored physically closer to each other on the disk, saving power since the hard drive heads don't need to move as great a distance (the battery life for the Zen is said to be 12hrs). Software used to transfer files from a computer to the Zen can fit on a floppy disk (I assume this because such is the case with the NJB3).
Tag information for the mp3s is also stored separately so the entire mp3 files don't need to be "scanned" in order to extract the tag info, so lists of them based on the info can be generated quickly.
Does anyone know what the signal to noise ratio for the iPod is? I could not find the info on Apple's website.
The iPod does have some useful (so I've heard) non-audio advantages, like the storable contacts and calendar. I've also heard some people have modded it to run custom applications.
Oh and about the similar physical shapes of the iPod and Zen; the hard drives are probably both 1.5" rectangular ones (I know Apple purchases theirs from Toshiba, might be the same for the Zen), so it would seem both casing designs are intended to fit the shape of the internal components best, to make them compact.
Peddler
1000+ Head-Fier
I have the Nomad Jukebox 3 (bugs and all) and I have to say that from a sound quality perspective it's an outstanding player. The form factor is, in my opinion, its biggest problem. It doesn't fit in a pocket (except perhaps a large coat) but luckily mine did come with the leather carrying case so I can strap it to my belt no problems.
Not everyone needs a portable unit for walking with though. How many of you actually only listen to music from your player when sat down? I think the designers of the Nomad really anticipated that people could simply put the unit in a bag for carrying to and from places and then sit down to listen to them.
I must admit I think the new player looks cool. Perhaps the biggest failing with the IPOD is that the player can be scratched so easily and, from what I have read on the net about it, is designed to 'synchronise' data with your desktop PC rather than just let you rip tracks and export.
One thing is for sure, I'm glad I took out a 3-year extended warrenty on my machine - when my local Dixons gets these new pocket players in, my machine may have a terrible accident!
Not everyone needs a portable unit for walking with though. How many of you actually only listen to music from your player when sat down? I think the designers of the Nomad really anticipated that people could simply put the unit in a bag for carrying to and from places and then sit down to listen to them.
I must admit I think the new player looks cool. Perhaps the biggest failing with the IPOD is that the player can be scratched so easily and, from what I have read on the net about it, is designed to 'synchronise' data with your desktop PC rather than just let you rip tracks and export.
One thing is for sure, I'm glad I took out a 3-year extended warrenty on my machine - when my local Dixons gets these new pocket players in, my machine may have a terrible accident!
Taphil
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Read some posts at nomadness.net or the Creative newsgroup. Scrolling thru long lists of songs, especially on a hdd-based mp3 player, is slow because the scroll wheel is small and has a slight clicking, and requires repetitive finger stroking. On the iPod, you can scroll thru 1000 songs in about 5 seconds, and still have the accuracy to easily pick the right one. Try that on the NJB3. Of course, this is only if the Zen is like the NJB3. At this point, there's lots of speculation anyway. And it's been said that the Zen is basically a shrunken version of the NJB3, so that's what I'm basing my thinking on.
USB1.1 is a negative because Creative should have just made it USB2.0, so that if you want FAST transfers you don't have to get a firewire card. Like Apple, they need to get of the firewire-high-horse and just make it easier for the consumer and make their products have USB2.0 (although in Apple's case it only applies to their computers).
Any decent filing system, such as the iPod's FAT32 or HFS+, has little defragmentation when used as an mp3 player. Remember that you don't use the mp3 player as a typical computer hard drive, copying files here and there constantly. It stores relatively large files that typically stay on there for a long time, so fragmentation problems should not even be a concern. Besides, battery life has little to do with fragmentation. It's has to do with having a big RAM buffer so the hard drive doesn't have to spin up or stay spinning so often. Whether or not the heads move back and for a few times isn't too important.
From what I remember, Creative decided to use (or continue using) a proprietary disk format because it would have support for large (>32GB hard drives that FAT32 doesn't support) and because the system makes cataloguing and organizing music easier. When you compare this to the iPod, there's really not too much of a difference in experience. But what goes on behind the scenes is quite different. The iPod just reads a simple database generated by whatever program that's used to transfer music over. This database file contains everything the iPod needs to display its contents. It never ever has to scan thru any songs and read tag info because all that work is done on the computer which has unlimited power and time. The NJB3's burden, I think, is in having to go thru and organize its contents itself. Plus, with a standard disk format, you don't need to run any extra software or drivers to tranfer data. It's really just plug-n-play. IMO, basically the iPod's software is much more simple and efficient.
Another disadvantage to the proprietary format is that the NJB3 requires drivers (not fun if they don't work in Windows), and it doesn't work on the Mac. The iPod requires no Windows drivers whatsoever.
The proprietary format was a curse since the NJB1. Things could have been simpler, easier, and worked better. Disk cleanups, getting stuck while loading, corrupted data, data loss, and driver problems could have been eliminated by using a standard disk format. I guess Creative didn't realize this with the NJB3, espeically when the iPod stood as a stunning example. I mean, how easy is it that you can plug the PC iPod into any computer (with firewire, which is a drawback, we all know), have Windows recognize it, then run the software on the iPod itself to transfer music, and be done. On the other hand, FAT32 is limited to 32GB, so Creative's format benefits those who want to have more than 32GB.
I don't think the last 3 negatives are the same. Poor customer support means if you experience technical difficulties, Creative isn't very helpful. Repair/replacement means if it breaks, you'll have to mail it in at your expense and wait a while to receive a repaired or replaced unit. For the iPod, you fill out an online form, Apple sends you a box overnight, you mail it off at no cost to you (overnight mail), they fix it or replace it the next day, and they mail it overnight to you, so you can have a new unit in as little as 48 hours. The warranty is self explanatory.
The iPod's SNR ratio is unpublished. But ask anyone here (a forum of critical audiophiles and audio enthusiasts), and they'll tell you it's very high, probably just as good as Creative's. Compare it between the Zen's 98dB, and I doubt anyone would notice a difference.
It's still only a dream to run apps on the iPod. The contacts/calendar info is marginally useful, considering that it's mainly an mp3 player that still doesn't have a queue feature like Creative (big drawback for some people, and for me my only major gripe).
USB1.1 is a negative because Creative should have just made it USB2.0, so that if you want FAST transfers you don't have to get a firewire card. Like Apple, they need to get of the firewire-high-horse and just make it easier for the consumer and make their products have USB2.0 (although in Apple's case it only applies to their computers).
Any decent filing system, such as the iPod's FAT32 or HFS+, has little defragmentation when used as an mp3 player. Remember that you don't use the mp3 player as a typical computer hard drive, copying files here and there constantly. It stores relatively large files that typically stay on there for a long time, so fragmentation problems should not even be a concern. Besides, battery life has little to do with fragmentation. It's has to do with having a big RAM buffer so the hard drive doesn't have to spin up or stay spinning so often. Whether or not the heads move back and for a few times isn't too important.
From what I remember, Creative decided to use (or continue using) a proprietary disk format because it would have support for large (>32GB hard drives that FAT32 doesn't support) and because the system makes cataloguing and organizing music easier. When you compare this to the iPod, there's really not too much of a difference in experience. But what goes on behind the scenes is quite different. The iPod just reads a simple database generated by whatever program that's used to transfer music over. This database file contains everything the iPod needs to display its contents. It never ever has to scan thru any songs and read tag info because all that work is done on the computer which has unlimited power and time. The NJB3's burden, I think, is in having to go thru and organize its contents itself. Plus, with a standard disk format, you don't need to run any extra software or drivers to tranfer data. It's really just plug-n-play. IMO, basically the iPod's software is much more simple and efficient.
Another disadvantage to the proprietary format is that the NJB3 requires drivers (not fun if they don't work in Windows), and it doesn't work on the Mac. The iPod requires no Windows drivers whatsoever.
The proprietary format was a curse since the NJB1. Things could have been simpler, easier, and worked better. Disk cleanups, getting stuck while loading, corrupted data, data loss, and driver problems could have been eliminated by using a standard disk format. I guess Creative didn't realize this with the NJB3, espeically when the iPod stood as a stunning example. I mean, how easy is it that you can plug the PC iPod into any computer (with firewire, which is a drawback, we all know), have Windows recognize it, then run the software on the iPod itself to transfer music, and be done. On the other hand, FAT32 is limited to 32GB, so Creative's format benefits those who want to have more than 32GB.
I don't think the last 3 negatives are the same. Poor customer support means if you experience technical difficulties, Creative isn't very helpful. Repair/replacement means if it breaks, you'll have to mail it in at your expense and wait a while to receive a repaired or replaced unit. For the iPod, you fill out an online form, Apple sends you a box overnight, you mail it off at no cost to you (overnight mail), they fix it or replace it the next day, and they mail it overnight to you, so you can have a new unit in as little as 48 hours. The warranty is self explanatory.
The iPod's SNR ratio is unpublished. But ask anyone here (a forum of critical audiophiles and audio enthusiasts), and they'll tell you it's very high, probably just as good as Creative's. Compare it between the Zen's 98dB, and I doubt anyone would notice a difference.
It's still only a dream to run apps on the iPod. The contacts/calendar info is marginally useful, considering that it's mainly an mp3 player that still doesn't have a queue feature like Creative (big drawback for some people, and for me my only major gripe).
Quote:
Given that most personal computers 'out there' also do not have v2.0 compliant USB ports, many people wanting 2.0 transfer speeds still need to upgrade their computers. And for some computers (ie. laptops with built-in ports), this is not an option. If you are going to upgrade your computer, why not just add Firewire and have the best of both worlds - backward compatibility with older devices and Firewire capability?
Seems like it was Creative's thinking to be able to connect the new Nomad to more computers out there. Apple forces the Firewire issue.
| USB1.1 is a negative because Creative should have just made it USB2.0, so that if you want FAST transfers you don't have to get a firewire card. |
Given that most personal computers 'out there' also do not have v2.0 compliant USB ports, many people wanting 2.0 transfer speeds still need to upgrade their computers. And for some computers (ie. laptops with built-in ports), this is not an option. If you are going to upgrade your computer, why not just add Firewire and have the best of both worlds - backward compatibility with older devices and Firewire capability?
Seems like it was Creative's thinking to be able to connect the new Nomad to more computers out there. Apple forces the Firewire issue.
Taphil
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True that most computers don't have USB2.0. But any player with USB will have greater compatibility with all the computers out there. Including USB2.0 would make that number even greater, and that's my point.
I think it's the same for Apple and Creative. They should just make their Nomad's and Macs USB2.0 for greater functionality for ALL consumers, whether or not they can take advantage of it, since USB2.0 is backwards compatible with USB1.1. It's for the growing segment of those with USB2.0 that would benefit. No one else would be hurt. And I dobut the price would be affected at all.
I think it's the same for Apple and Creative. They should just make their Nomad's and Macs USB2.0 for greater functionality for ALL consumers, whether or not they can take advantage of it, since USB2.0 is backwards compatible with USB1.1. It's for the growing segment of those with USB2.0 that would benefit. No one else would be hurt. And I dobut the price would be affected at all.
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