New Nagra HD DAC

[Fririce0003]

 

 ... for about the 10th time on this thread.
 
In my case. I've gone the opposite way price-wise and got myself an Yggy for £2k, which I feel is a worthwhile improvement over the internal DAC of my Nagra CDC. Not night-and-day, but nevertheless a solid improvement that is astonishing for the lowly price, and should keep me happy for a considerable while. This of course won't stop me following the progress of DACs costing 10x as much - because I'm always open minded as to what may happen next.[size=small] [/size]

 
  Head-Fier in question here, I'll be bringing up my LH Davinci to add to the mix. All in the pursuit of ultimate sound. A flight to Brisbane is fairly quick and cheap, so why not catch up with a friend, especially when I get the chance to listen to a multitude of other TOTL gear I wouldn't have the chance to otherwise.

 
  Regarding the Ygg, I've heard it a little myself. While it is a nice DAC for the price, that's really it's fault overall, while it's a good deal at its price bracket it lacks the refinement that top flight DAC's have. If there were a DAC which I would consider a, relative, bargain it would be the CAD DAC. It's the cheapest of the DAC's we'll be comparing. But the simple fact that it's worth putting in for comparison speaks volumes. While I haven't spent much time with the Kalliope and I am yet to hear the Nagra I have spent some time going between the DaVinci and CAD. To my surprise there were actually a few elements to the sound I preferred from the CAD, though for the music I listen to mostly the DaVinci did have the slight edge. Having said that I could live comfortably with the CAD any day.
 
  But look forward to the findings from our comparison in November, I know I'm certainly looking forward to it!

 

[Swiss geek]

   
Would we now add the following to the above list?
 
You cannot use the transformer option with an amplifier whose input XLR is not connected to ground.

 
No, sorry, that's not completely right.

- In the case of a source equipped with a balanced output transformer if the receiver (preamplifier or amplifier) ​​is not symmetrical and that are connector is still an XLR, the cold pin of the XLR must be connected to ground (pin 1).

- In the case of a source equipped with a symmetrical electronic output type '' servo ', and if the receiver (amplifier or preamplifier) ​​is not symmetrical and that the connector is still an XLR, cold pin the XLR should be connected to ground (pin 1).
 
- In the case of a source equipped with an electronic balanced output without '' servo '', and if the receiver (preamplifier or amplifier) ​​is not symmetrical and that the connector is still an XLR, the cold pin XLR  SHOULD NOT BE CONNECTED TO THE GROUND. If the cold spot is connected to ground, there is a risk of destruction of the electronics of the cold point of the source output stage.
 

- If the receiver (amplifier) ​​is equipped with a balanced input XLR, sources electronically balanced or transformer can be connected without problem.
 
 
These little annoyances are often encountered in the field of studios and Broadcasting ...

 

[bmichels]

Here's a really long and in depth review of Chord 's Dave in Japanese. Comparing it to the nagra HD DAC

http://pansaku.exblog.jp/23717658/
 
May be someone here speak japaneese and can help to understand which (DAVE or NAGRA) is considered best by the reviewer ? 

 

[seeteeyou]

CHORD DAVEは、私の知る限りでは世界最高のDACである。
 
The very last sentence seemed to be such a bold statement, DAVE is the world's best DAC to the author's limited knowledge.
 
It's certainly true for that particular price range and it's pretty darn tough to beat such beast @ 7,995 quids.
 

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Just wondering if the performance were further improved with the latest 5.1-channel DDC from exD
 
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1081576061854710
https://www.facebook.com/groups/196686957134431/permalink/685602934909495/
 

 

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Or Mutec MC-3+ USB connected to 10MHz GPS clock
 
http://www.aktives-hoeren.de/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5902
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/mutec-mc-3-a-17300/index2.html#post360281
 
 

 

[106099]

  Here's a really long and in depth review of Chord 's Dave in Japanese. Comparing it to the nagra HD DAC

http://pansaku.exblog.jp/23717658/
 
May be someone here speak japaneese and can help to understand which (DAVE or NAGRA) is considered best by the reviewer ? 

 
 
There is no direct comparison between the Nagra HD DAC and the Chord Dave in that writing.  It reads more like poetry than an audio review.  The comment on Dave being the best DAC at the end is not backed by supportive arguments.
 
If you are interested in Chord.  Stereophile will have a full review of the Chord TT in the November issue.  Most likely from the editor, so expect both graphs and subjective analysis.  Whether Atkinson will say anything about Hugo or the new Dave is unknown at this time.
 
As a 1000+ hours user of the Chord Hugo, I have to say the Hugo sound signature is not all that different across the Chord line. I have never heard the Dave. Perhaps that has its own ecosystem with darker floors and better transient handling.  If so, I look forwards to hearing it.

 

[harmonix]

There is no direct comparison between the Nagra HD DAC and the Chord Dave in that writing.  It reads more like poetry than an audio review.  The comment on Dave being the best DAC at the end is not backed by supportive arguments.

If you are interested in Chord.  Stereophile will have a full review of the Chord TT in the November issue.  Most likely from the editor, so expect both graphs and subjective analysis.  Whether Atkinson will say anything about Hugo or the new Dave is unknown at this time.

As a 1000+ hours user of the Chord Hugo, I have to say the Hugo sound signature is not all that different across the Chord line. I have never heard the Dave. Perhaps that has its own ecosystem with darker floors and better transient handling.  If so, I look forwards to hearing it.

The reviewer recommends the HD DAC+MPS combo but couched it to say the Dave is less than half the price and does not need a preamp.
Also says the Dave cannot match the HD DAC in what he calls "Harmony" - guess that means harmonics. But it does seem to fare well in the uber DAC category and the price is the big selling point.

PS Says it beats the HugoTT hands down

 

[106099]

The reviewer recommends the HD DAC+MPS combo but couched it to say the Dave is less than half the price and does not need a preamp.
Also says the Dave cannot match the HD DAC in what he calls "Harmony" - guess that means harmonics. But it does seem to fare well in the uber DAC category and the price is the big selling point.

PS Says it beats the HugoTT hands down

 
Have you near 2000 hours on your Nagra as yet?  Has it settled down?
I am still waiting for my set to arrive.

 

[harmonix]

   
Have you near 2000 hours on your Nagra as yet?  Has it settled down?
I am still waiting for my set to arrive.

Hey Paul - I don't think you need 2000 hours on it to open up. Think it has settled down (I'm at ~700 hours); IMHO needs about ~500 hours for break in however the unit will already have ~140 hours when it ships to you. There is an "ugly duckling" phase for about 2 weeks - where to me the frequency spectrum isn't in full coherence but I think you will notice the high end from the start. The HD DAC + MPS seems to be the winning combo. 
 
IMHO if you then add a Triton V2 to power the unit it then it takes it up to the next level - really think there is a huge synergy here.
Thinking of adding the optional MPS battery unit here to go DC...

 

[106099]

  Hey Paul - I don't think you need 2000 hours on it to open up. Think it has settled down (I'm at ~700 hours); IMHO needs about ~500 hours for break in however the unit will already have ~140 hours when it ships to you. There is an "ugly duckling" phase for about 2 weeks - where to me the frequency spectrum isn't in full coherence but I think you will notice the high end from the start. The HD DAC + MPS seems to be the winning combo. 
 
IMHO if you then add a Triton V2 to power the unit it then it takes it up to the next level - really think there is a huge synergy here.
Thinking of adding the optional MPS battery unit here to go DC...

 
you mean the Shunyata V2?
BTW, is there some practical functionality for the modulometer other than blatant sexiness?

 

[harmonix]

   
you mean the Shunyata V2?
BTW, is there some practical functionality for the modulometer other than blatant sexiness?

Yes Shunayata Triton V2
 
The modulometer is quite sexy call me old fashioned.
Other than that it is does give me some info as to the recording level and how to adjust your volume but without it now you would feel incomplete

 

[isquirrel]

I have the Shunyata Triton V2 also and I can hear only a very very small difference when I use the MPS battery. I can hear an extra level of refinement but is very small and you have to "know" what to expect to be able to pick it up. I think this speaks for the Shunyata's contribution and also very dependant on the quality of your mains power. 
 
A forum member PM'ed me to say that my comments had led him to the impression that the onboard headphone amp is a "disappointment" 
 
I would like to correct that impression as it is not a disappointment at all, not only is not yet run in but I am comparing it to a pair of reference Woo 234 mono blocks rolled with some of the best tubes, tweaked to the maximum in other words, fed by Shunyata reference power components. 
 
The fact it even gets close is remarkable.
 
When Roy "Romaz" heard the 234's at Big Sound 2015, he mentioned to me that Woo had forgotten to send decent driver tubes for them, I couldn't believe they could be so stupid. The driver tubes have a major impact on the sound of any tube amplifier, particularly on the 234's.
 
Unfortunately I don't speak any Japanese ! They have very strange listening traits. The Nagra is now over 300 hours and is getting better and better day by day. I am tracking its progress by listening to the same piece of music at the same time every morning. It is on 24/7 burn in.
 
It is quite a remarkable DAC, I was saying to my wife yesterday how much I enjoy listening through it, I usually get fatigued listening to Digital for a long time and want to switch over to Vinyl but this is different. Not sure about the Total DAC, I have a feeling it will be another excellent top end DAC that offers an incrementally different perspective on the sound. They have not done what Nagra have and started the digital audio path from scratch and developed a completely different way of doing it. Another Head-fier who owns the Meitner DAC's as well as the Nagra much prefers the sound of the Nagra. Now that is saying something. Ed Meitners gear has always been a benchmark in digital audio.
 
Anyway at the end the only think that matters is what is how I feel about it, and I think its great, highly enjoyable.

 

[holeout]

Hey isquirrel, can you give an brief impression on the Nagra vs Kalliope so far? I'm just about to pull the plug on either on of these dacs. Thanks.

 

[106099]

@isquirrel,
What you shared below may have confirmed my findings with the Nagra HD DAC.
I have used and owned tube amps like the Woo 234, Cary and Thoress with 1950s WE 300B and other fine rectifiers since the 1980s.  That sound is imprinted in my DNA.  When I first heard the Nagra HD DAC through the Fostex TH900, I felt that sensation.  At first I thought it was just for some transient or certain songs.  To confirm, I had my NYC dealer connect to CH amps and heard through a pair of fine Zellaton speakers.  15 minutes there proved to me that the Nagra DAC was special.  As a headphone lover, I spent the next hour just on the Fostex and the transient confusion was gone with the TH900 when used with lesser amps.  There were no distortion even at levels that literally warmed my upper body.  (as when playing Toccata & Fugue and Appalachian Spring).
 
This was on a demo Nagra HD DAC that had in my estimate close to 1000 hours.  It sounded to me like a Woo, my BHSE, my McIntosh, AR, Cary, etc....but then I realize there were something else,  The Nagra's own signature.  It bought  back to me a connection with the performance that was there to touch. Oh, so very intimate.  
If not for the warm sticky headphone feel on my ears, I swear the room was Avery Fisher Hall or the little Stockholm bar where they recorded Jazz at the Pawnshop.
 
For me on that day, it went beyond being close.  I was right in "those" music venues.  Thanks to the Nagra HD DAC.
 
 
 
Quote:

  A forum member PM'ed me to say that my comments had led him to the impression that the onboard headphone amp is a "disappointment" 
 
I would like to correct that impression as it is not a disappointment at all, not only is not yet run in but I am comparing it to a pair of reference Woo 234 mono blocks rolled with some of the best tubes, tweaked to the maximum in other words, fed by Shunyata reference power components. 
 
The fact it even gets close is remarkable.
 
 

 

[isquirrel]

  Hey isquirrel, can you give an brief impression on the Nagra vs Kalliope so far? I'm just about to pull the plug on either on of these dacs. Thanks.

Both DAC's are superb and are either at or very near the top of the performance available from current SOTA DAC's. I will not pick a "winner" at this point in time as the Nagra does not have enough time on it yet and to be clear I don't think it will be possible to do so anyway, they are both excellent but quite different, they are so different that an one hour audition with both in the same system should allow you to choose your preference. 

 

[holeout]

Thanks squirrel. Picking up the HD dac today! Got an offer I can't refuse. Hope to post some impression when everything is setup and running.