[bmichels]

 
Hello here,
 
New review:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/10/nagra-classic-dac-review-preview.html
 
Living closed to Switzerland border, definitely I'm going to purchase the Nagra Classic. Waiting for my new optimized wooden furniture.

 
I will be very interested to read a comparaison between the HD DAC and the Classic DAC.  
 
For me the HD DAC is still the holy graal.. 

   but ..may be it's more recent junior is "almost' as good ? 

 

[cladane]

   
I will be very interested to read a comparaison between the HD DAC and the Classic DAC.  
 
For me the HD DAC is still the holy graal.. 

   but ..may be it's more recent junior is "almost' as good ? 

Bertrand, just think that first I don't need at all a DAC doing headphones (and not ALL headphones), second I don't want a DAC with any tube outputs but transistors because of my 845 so transparent, third I have yet a very high level volume controller into my TotalDAC.
As a result, in those specific conditions, the Classic is the SAME as the HD.

 

[paulchiu]

 
Hello here,
 
New review:
http://www.monoandstereo.com/2016/10/nagra-classic-dac-review-preview.html
 
Living closed to Switzerland border, definitely I'm going to purchase the Nagra Classic. Waiting for my new optimized wooden furniture.

 
Indeed, the unpacking of a Nagra is something one remembers.  (... i need photos to remember LOL)
 

 
paul

 

[paulchiu]

 
Bertrand, just think that first I don't need at all a DAC doing headphones (and not ALL headphones), second I don't want a DAC with any tube outputs but transistors because of my 845 so transparent, third I have yet a very high level volume controller into my TotalDAC.
As a result, in those specific conditions, the Classic is the SAME as the HD.

 
Listened to/Auditioned the Classic line back in CES and briefly during the Munich demo last May.  The Classic line with the DAC and preamp sounded as well as any DAC with head-amps that I have ever heard or used.  I would ranked them as well with the Chord DAVE overall. Edge to the Classic DAC + Classic Preamp.  
The Classic DAC itself compares well with the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2, which cost more.
I had conversations with the head of sales North America René Laflamme about the Classic DAC and how it compares with the HD DAC.  He said '..Classic DAC has many of the technology of the HD DAC... it's a great value but not as good..."  I do not agree that the Classic DAC is not as good.  It was excellent at the show with the Classic Line and Wilson Alexia speakers.  I tried using some of my DSD tracks with the Classic DAC + Classic PreAmp and the signature was nearly the same as my HD DAC.  I just felt the HD DAC was more refined and holographic.
I think pricing of the HD DAC will be less than the the Classic DAC + Classic PreAmp combo.  (please check)
 
Currently, only the MSB Select DAC line has my interest in adding to the family of DACs.  The HD DAC is still my go to.
 
paul

 

[harmonix]

I will be very interested to read a comparaison between the HD DAC and the Classic DAC.  

For me the HD DAC is still the holy graal..     but ..may be it's more recent junior is "almost' as good ? 

I'm not sure any review will answer that as there will be differences. Whether those differences are important to you and whether they are worth the price ultimately will depend on yourself.

 

[harmonix]

Listened to/Auditioned the Classic line back in CES and briefly during the Munich demo last May.  The Classic line with the DAC and preamp sounded as well as any DAC with head-amps that I have ever heard or used.  I would ranked them as well with the Chord DAVE overall. Edge to the Classic DAC + Classic Preamp.  
The Classic DAC itself compares well with the Alpha DAC Reference Series 2, which cost more.
I had conversations with the head of sales North America René Laflamme about the Classic DAC and how it compares with the HD DAC.  He said '..Classic DAC has many of the technology of the HD DAC... it's a great value but not as good..."  I do not agree that the Classic DAC is not as good.  It was excellent at the show with the Classic Line and Wilson Alexia speakers.  I tried using some of my DSD tracks with the Classic DAC + Classic PreAmp and the signature was nearly the same as my HD DAC.  I just felt the HD DAC was more refined and holographic.
I think pricing of the HD DAC will be less than the the Classic DAC + Classic PreAmp combo.  (please check)

Currently, only the MSB Select DAC line has my interest in adding to the family of DACs.  The HD DAC is still my go to.

paul

Paul I have a suspicion the limiting factor is the preamp. Nice one but not reference. Try classic vs. HD on something like an Ayre KXR-20....

 

[cladane]

Hello,
Hello Paul,
 
Thank you for the living return.
 
Are you saying that you listened to the Classic DAC + Classic preamp with headphones connected to the preamp headphones output ?
Well price is 12500€ (without MPS) + 17000€.
 
Is the preamp headphones output similar to the DAC HD one ?
 
I suppose that Mr Laflamme compares the Classic DAC to the HD in a speakers setup. Not sure like you write that in a headphones setup with a really good headphones amp the Classic won't be at the same level.
 
I'm looking at the Utopias with a Luxman P700u (just updated for EU certification). In Lyon I could go to the Nagra reseller listen the Classic and HD DACs to compare.
They stock also Mietner and EMMlabs based on the same principle of 1 bit upsampling.

 

[paulchiu]

Paul I have a suspicion the limiting factor is the preamp. Nice one but not reference. Try classic vs. HD on something like an Ayre KXR-20....

 
Yes the Classic PreAmp was all they had at Munich, unfortunately.  Personally, I prefer the sound from the Nagra Jazz, which i used for years at home.  But it lacks a headphone output, which made the HD DAC so appealing to me back in 2014.
 
The Wilson through the Nagra HD Amp was impressive with the Classic line, just wished they had more gear in the room. Like perhaps the Ayre PreAmp you cited......
 
paul

 

[paulchiu]

  Hello,
Hello Paul,
 
Thank you for the living return.
 
Are you saying that you listened to the Classic DAC + Classic preamp with headphones connected to the preamp headphones output ?
Well price is 12500€ (without MPS) + 17000€.
 
Is the preamp headphones output similar to the DAC HD one ?
 
I suppose that Mr Laflamme compares the Classic DAC to the HD in a speakers setup. Not sure like you write that in a headphones setup with a really good headphones amp the Classic won't be at the same level.
 
I'm looking at the Utopias with a Luxman P700u (just updated for EU certification). In Lyon I could go to the Nagra reseller listen the Classic and HD DACs to compare.
They stock also Mietner and EMMlabs based on the same principle of 1 bit upsampling.

 
Hi Cladane,
 
Yes, I used my headphone (HE1000) with the Classic PreAmp connected with the Classic DAC.  I connected my Sony ZX2 player with DSD files using a simple USB cable.
 
The Classic PreAmp with tubes output was similar to my HD DAC in signature sound.  Just not quite the same when comparing headphone performance. I prefer my HD DAC sound and headphone output.  (Yes, I use HD DAC at my office both for headphones and speakers.)
 
At the show, it's Classic DAC to HD Amp to Wilson.  Comparison with HD DAC and Classic DAC is both for headphone use (Classic DAC with Classic Pre to HD DAC alone) and for speaker use (Classic DAC with Classic Pre with HD Amp to HD DAC with HD Amp) In each case, mgr says sound is better with the HD DAC.
 
I do not anticipate Nagra will introduce HD DAC 2 in the near future to match the HD Amp.  The HD DAC is the top DAC in the line.
 
Listening at your dealer is a must in my opinion before investing.  Good luck.
 
(I also have use the Utopia with the HD DAC straight and with external tube amps.  Amazing!)
 
paul

 

[bmichels]

   
Hi Cladane,
 
....(I also have use the Utopia with the HD DAC straight and with external tube amps.  Amazing!)
 
paul

 
Are you speaking about the Utopia headphone or the Utopia speakers ?  

 

[paulchiu]

   
Are you speaking about the Utopia headphone or the Utopia speakers ?  

 
I have listened to both, the current Utopia headphone and the older Utopia speakers with the Nagra HD DAC.

 

[bmichels]

New review of the HD DAC here.

 

[paulchiu]

  New review of the HD DAC here.

 
Thanks for this.
It's rare you get a pro level review of a component/system 3 years after launch.
 
paul

 

[bmichels]

Reading this review, I am quite surprised by the fact that the sound was affected by the Nagra PSU being close to the HD-DAC and that the PSU needed to be put farther from the HD-DAC to get optimum SQ

 

[paulchiu]

  Reading this review, I am quite disapointed and surprised by the fact that the sound was affected by the Nagra PSU being close to the HD-DAC and that the PSU needed to be put farther from the HD-DAC to get optimum SQ.  This translate a poor design in term of isolation of the DAC or of the PSU !  quite amazing in this price range?

 
I do not agree with the isolation findings with the placements of the power supply and the HD DAC.
I have my MPS about 18 inches below my HD DAC.  When the HD DAC was directly on top of the MPS, I heard little difference.  I placed them apart due to heat.
Now, I am not sure what EMi/EMF producers and/or dielectrics may have been used in the above review but those could have generate sonic effects.
I fully agree any serious comparisons with the HD DAC has to involve a serious turntable system.  Or tape system.  In the beginning, it was the pristine sound from the HD DAC when compared with my LPs and Nagra Jazz that captured my attention.
 
Regarding connectors used in the review:
 
I have also used numerous exotic cables with my Nagra system.  Not a whole lot of difference can be heard with stuff under 100K.  So, I do not recommend any.
 
paul