[paulchiu]

  Then all that's missing is a grounding cable into a grounding box - this was not a small difference for me but I use speakers

 
My room is a grounded Faraday cage,

 

[cladane]

   
My room is a grounded Faraday cage,

Hello,
What have you taken away from the LCD4 Audeze ?? Wouldn't it be an improvement to the LCD-3, less darkness ? Not enough trebles, perhaps for strings ??
 
Claude.

 

[paulchiu]

 
Hello,
What have you taken away from the LCD4 Audeze ?? Wouldn't it be an improvement to the LCD-3, less darkness ? Not enough trebles, perhaps for strings ??
 
Claude.

 
I do not have the LCD4.  
After Tyll's report, not motivated to go try one out anytime soon.
The LCD3 sounds terrific with ensembles and chamber music.  For the largest ensembles, I prefer the HE1000 and HD800 S with the Nagra, they give me a better sense of scale and retain the finesse of each instrument.
 
Paul 

 

[cladane]

Well Tyll's reports are not my base references. There are many reviewers nowadays.

Owning the Nagra HD you should listen to voices through the LCD4. Don't let the reviewer waste this pleasure.

 

[bmichels]

Many people mentioned that one of the BIG advantages of the DAVE is to be immune to jitter and therefore to the quality of the source and of the input cables, and therefore this save a lot of money by being able to choose cheap sources and cables...and save a lot of testing and errors.
 
Is the NAGRA much more picky on the quality of the source and the input cables ? 

 

[arnaud]

Well Tyll's reports are not my base references. There are many reviewers nowadays.

Owning the Nagra HD you should listen to voices through the LCD4. Don't let the reviewer waste this pleasure.

Yes, main issue with Tyll is that he's got good ears lol.

 

[cladane]

 
Yes, main issue with Tyll is that he's got good ears lol.

Ears (?) but for sure you share the same tastes  : BHSE + 009 (STAX addict)

 
My purpose was to point out that Nagra HD and LCD4 could show a good synergy.

 

[paulchiu]

  Many people mentioned that one of the BIG advantages of the DAVE is to be immune to jitter and therefore to the quality of the source and of the input cables, and therefore this save a lot of money by being able to choose cheap sources and cables...and save a lot of testing and errors.
 
Is the NAGRA much more picky on the quality of the source and the input cables ? 

 
Not exactly.  
In fact, I have been struggling with source for the DAVE as my Macbook Pro (a rather powerful version) cannot play DSD128 or DSD256 files using Audirvana, JRiver or Roon without pauses and drop-outs.  It may not sound any different with different USB cables (from <$5 to >$1500), the issues with source playing DSD is a real issue.
I either have to buy another Aurender or look for a different solution.  Right now, it looks like a microRendu and a sonic transporter.
 
As for the Nagra, I never had any issues with playing DSD128 or DSD256 files.  It plays as smoothly as 44.1k.  No drama.  The Nagra does like fancier USB cables I feed it.  I can hear the difference, but they are small and requires cables over $2500 to really make any difference.
 
Paul

 

[bigfatpaulie]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around why your MacBook Pro would have issue with DSD files.  Given the innate horsepower in a computer like that VS what is required to play a DSD file..  I no expert but to me it *feels* like something else is a play here causing issue.  
 
...
 
...
 
 
Or I have no idea.  

 

[harmonix]

Ears (?) but for sure you share the same tastes  : BHSE + 009 (STAX addict) :wink_face:

My purpose was to point out that Nagra HD and LCD4 could show a good synergy.

The idea of putting a 650g vice clamp on my skull instantly rejected that notion.
That and the extra cost of a chiropractor session on my neck after extended sessions

 

[harmonix]

My room is a grounded Faraday cage,

This has more to do with chassis grounding than emi/rfi rejection via a faradau cage... Some setups may benefit as the nagra is really running unbalanced...

 

[harmonix]

Many people mentioned that one of the BIG advantages of the DAVE is to be immune to jitter and therefore to the quality of the source and of the input cables, and therefore this save a lot of money by being able to choose cheap sources and cables...and save a lot of testing and errors.

Is the NAGRA much more picky on the quality of the source and the input cables ? 

So far no issues with this... up to DSD128

 

[Torq]

  My collection of DSD256 files is small.  DSD128 into the 200s.  So it was natural to compare how beautifully the Nagra HD DAC plays each (DSD128 natively and DSD256 as PCM 352k) to a Chord DAVE.
 
I used Macbook Pro Retina 2014 with internal 1TB SSD and music files stored in an external USB3 connected Samsung 1TB SSD.  There are other computer junk connected in the chain, so this is by no means a dedicated audio-grade server.
 
While the Nagra HD DAC played everything PCM and DSD up to 256 perfectly, the Chord DAVE did not with any DSD files using Roon, Audirvana Plus 2.4 or JRiver Media Center 21.0.80.
 
With DSD128, DAVE experience drops throughout play.  Most serious using Roon, then Audirvana.  JRiver was the cleanest.
 
With DSD256, DAVE drops more often than play with Roon.  Audirvana equally bad.  Media Center a tad better, but never played any 3 minutes song without interruption.
 
Although the drops were frustrating, the music from the Chord DAVE is amazing at this price point.  The sound field is definitely larger than the Nagra HD DAC, but may not be realistic.  Testing tracks I made using Schoeps and Sennheiser mikes in various closed theater venues, the play from Nagra HD DAC were true to the source.  Organic with human voices as I heard them with my ears at the performances.
I used a neutral AKG K812 throughout the listening session.
 

 
While it's not Chord's DAVE, I'm having essentially the same problem with their Mojo.
 
I've tried it with my 12 core/64 GB/1TB SSD new Mac Pro, with a direct USB connection to the Mac, with nothing else running, WiFi/Bluetooth disabled, tried with half a dozen different USB cables (from Monoprice/Amazon Basics cheapies up to the big AudioQuest stuff), and using Roon, Audirvana+ 2.5.1.3, JRiver Media Center (same version), and HQPlayer.  Anything over DSD64 gets dropouts ... sometimes not for 10 minutes at a time, sometimes every few seconds.
 
I've also tested on five other Macs, a brand-spanking new fully-loaded 15" Retina MacBook Pro (that had the native OS X image on it and the player software and nothing else), my fully loaded 2013 15" Retina MacBook Pro, the original Retina MacBook and a Dual Core 2013 Era Mac Mini.  I get 100% consistent results across all of these units.  Dropouts with the Mojo above DSD64, regardless of player, music, cable, etc.
 
The only things common in these test scenarios are the Mojo and the version of OS X - 10.11.5 (with one exception being 10.11.4).
 
Unfortunately I never tried native DSD playback on earlier builds of OS X, so I don't know if it was broken prior to that.
 
I can feed the Mojo a 32-bit 384 KHz PCM signal, or let the player convert DSD to 32/352.8 PCM ... and that'll play all day with no problems.  The moment I switch to native DSD above DSD64 ... i.e. using DSD over PCM (DoP) mode, the dropouts start.
 
I can reproduce this via Roon and an Aries endpoint, but the Roon Core is also a Mac ...
 
I can reproduce the issue with the ALO Audio International+ Optical Edition also.
 
Working to get another DSD DAC to test with.
 
No idea if it's actually an OS X issue or some subtle timing problem, but I'm at a loss as to what to try next.
 
Be fascinated to hear what you discover!

 

[paulchiu]

   
While it's not Chord's DAVE, I'm having essentially the same problem with their Mojo.
 
I've tried it with my 12 core/64 GB/1TB SSD new Mac Pro, with a direct USB connection to the Mac, with nothing else running, WiFi/Bluetooth disabled, tried with half a dozen different USB cables (from Monoprice/Amazon Basics cheapies up to the big AudioQuest stuff), and using Roon, Audirvana+ 2.5.1.3, JRiver Media Center (same version), and HQPlayer.  Anything over DSD64 gets dropouts ... sometimes not for 10 minutes at a time, sometimes every few seconds.
 
I've also tested on five other Macs, a brand-spanking new fully-loaded 15" Retina MacBook Pro (that had the native OS X image on it and the player software and nothing else), my fully loaded 2013 15" Retina MacBook Pro, the original Retina MacBook and a Dual Core 2013 Era Mac Mini.  I get 100% consistent results across all of these units.  Dropouts with the Mojo above DSD64, regardless of player, music, cable, etc.
 
The only things common in these test scenarios are the Mojo and the version of OS X - 10.11.5 (with one exception being 10.11.4).
 
Unfortunately I never tried native DSD playback on earlier builds of OS X, so I don't know if it was broken prior to that.
 
I can feed the Mojo a 32-bit 384 KHz PCM signal, or let the player convert DSD to 32/352.8 PCM ... and that'll play all day with no problems.  The moment I switch to native DSD above DSD64 ... i.e. using DSD over PCM (DoP) mode, the dropouts start.
 
I can reproduce this via Roon and an Aries endpoint, but the Roon Core is also a Mac ...
 
I can reproduce the issue with the ALO Audio International+ Optical Edition also.
 
Working to get another DSD DAC to test with.
 
No idea if it's actually an OS X issue or some subtle timing problem, but I'm at a loss as to what to try next.
 
Be fascinated to hear what you discover!

 
Another DAVE owner who has a 12 Core Mac Pro has successfully run DSD files on his DAVE.  Hi @romaz, is it DSD64, 128 or 256 with your Mac Pro?
 
I have on one occasion after much meddling with everything got the DAVE to almost finish a 3 minutes DSD256 song successfully with almost the same spec MBP as yours.  But, it paused with 20 seconds to go.
 
I pretty much gave up with the MBP and waiting for a Sonic Transporter and micrRendu to arrive to work with the DAVE.
 
For DSD files, I only listen with the Nagra HD DAC.
 
Paul

 

[romaz]

   
Another DAVE owner who has a 12 Core Mac Pro has successfully run DSD files on his DAVE.  Hi @romaz, is it DSD64, 128 or 256 with your Mac Pro?
 
I have on one occasion after much meddling with everything got the DAVE to almost finish a 3 minutes DSD256 song successfully with almost the same spec MBP as yours.  But, it paused with 20 seconds to go.
 
I pretty much gave up with the MBP and waiting for a Sonic Transporter and micrRendu to arrive to work with the DAVE.
 
For DSD files, I only listen with the Nagra HD DAC.
 
Paul

Paul, the problem is DoP (which is not truly native DSD) as few DACs are capable of handling a DSD signal any other way.  DoP requires resampling and thus requires CPU power.  DSD64 and 128 are easier to process but DSD256 is apparently CPU intensive.  With my Mac Pro (12-core, 64GB RAM, 1TB SSD) and using Roon 1.2, I can play anything via USB to my DAVE, up to DSD256.  I can even surf the web while music is playing and I have no issues.  I have also recently tested a 6-core Mac Pro and this seems to work fine with DSD256 files.  With the older Roon version that came out in January (3-4 builds ago), even DSD 128 was stalling on my powerful Mac and so part of the problem has to be Roon.
 
Of course, if you have Windows and you use Chord's ASIO driver, you can feed your Chord Mojo or DAVE a native DSD signal (not DoP) and there are no skips or stalls because your computer is not having to resample the file at all.  
 
Because the Nagra is a DSD dac, I am not surprised the Nagra has no problems.
 
For those getting a microRendu and sonicTransporter, Jesus Rodriguez and Andrew Gillis are working on a solution to allow the microRendu to feed a Chord dac a native DSD signal (without having to resort to DoP) and so I am hoping a fix is in sight.