[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood Just because Apple is behind the curve as far as technology is concerned, it still doesn't mean they won't sell products successfully. I mean, just look at how well the Shuffle is selling. Apple is pure marketing genius. It's like selling chocolate chip cookies without chocolate chips. If anyone can do it, Apple can. -Ed

He's right. The only thing that people REALLY care about is marketing. A very low percentage of the population does research and gets the product best for them.

MP3 players are fasion statements mostly now-a-days. Apple's iPod line has got that covered, and therefore they have the largest percentage of the industry. They are following in Microsoft's footsteps, selling the lowest quality for the highest price, and only using sneaky business tactics becoming the largest successor.

 

[Cyclone]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman They are following in Microsoft's footsteps, selling the lowest quality for the highest price, and only using sneaky business tactics becoming the largest successor.

Basically all current OS's have major downfalls. its a game of pick your poison.

 

[crimsonadam]

so here we have the mini and the shuffle, both with new fancy upgrades and market entries. However neither has addressed the audio aspect of the player, such as an eq that works, or wider format support. we are entering the age when apple gets lazy, hubris takes over and apple goes into hibernation once again.

 

[acklee]

I still remember being back on the schoolyard and arguing over which video game system was better. The kids with Nintendo systems vs. the kids with Sega systems.

Good to see we've all come so far.

Don't we all have something better to do than attack other people's choices? Like maybe enjoy what we have?

 

[Jmmmmm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone Jmmm lay off man it is a thread about mini's dont be expecting anything about other players.

??
What are you talking about?

And you realize you just started the debate back up again?

Quote:

Originally Posted by yyoo I've heard the Chairman of Creative has been waking up in a cold sweat every night for the past week.

Neat. Why would I or anyone else care?


This debate is really sad and pathetic. Anyone who blindly defends only one thing (mp3 player, political party, shampoo, or anything else) is a closed-minded idiot. I'm here because I enjoy music, mp3 players, etc, learning about everything, and helping out other people. I'm not here to convert everyone to a certain mp3 player or tell anyone that their mp3 player sucks. If you like one, great, get it. If you hate one, then fine too, don't buy it. There are bigger things in the world.

 

[IstariAsuka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by acklee I still remember being back on the schoolyard and arguing over which video game system was better. The kids with Nintendo systems vs. the kids with Sega systems. Good to see we've all come so far.

You're stupid, SNES>Genesis.

 

[Jahn]

I have perfectly horrible timing. This happened to me last time too. Buy apple product. 2 weeks return policy over. Then new revised version announced

 

[zhenya]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood Just because Apple is behind the curve as far as technology is concerned, it still doesn't mean they won't sell products successfully. I mean, just look at how well the Shuffle is selling. Apple is pure marketing genius. It's like selling chocolate chip cookies without chocolate chips. If anyone can do it, Apple can. -Ed

Just how is apple behind the curve? By making players that work with a minimum of frustration? By creating great software for managing a large digital music collection, while cleanly and clearly interfacing with their digital players? Is is because they don't pack their players full of extra gadgets or have a huge corporate logo on every available surface? Really...

 

[IstariAsuka]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhenya Just how is apple behind the curve? By making players that work with a minimum of frustration? By creating great software for managing a large digital music collection, while cleanly and clearly interfacing with their digital players? Is is because they don't pack their players full of extra gadgets or have a huge corporate logo on every available surface? Really...

Well, I'll give some examples of how they're behind the curve

iPod Shuffle: No screen. That fact is exaserbated by no effective playlist skipping on the player. Also, no radio, replaceable battery, EQ, etc. It has less features and is less usable.

iPod Mini: CRAP BATTERY LIFE. Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No self-constructing database. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive.

iPod: Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive. Does not include dock (especially considering it's price).

Furthermore, the actual iPod GUI is not all that great. Sure, it's simple, but I fail to see how it's any easier to use than the Karma interface. It has lots of small things that irk me, like how if you go to the menu after starting a song, it takes you back to the node you were at, and you have to press menu repeatedly to get back to the base menu. Another thing: once you get to the root menu you can't just push menu again to get back to the currently playing song, you have to scroll down to the bottom and select "now playing." Also, on the Karma you can select a specific letter in the alphabet first, and then scroll through those songs/albums/whatever. This is much faster than having to go through them all. There's absolutely no reason for these things, and they're quite annoying.

I also don't particularly like the scroll wheel. It's freaking slow compared to my Karma for one handed operation. Apple should have stuck with a mechanic wheel; they had it right the first time. A mechanical wheel allows for much faster scrolling, a la Karma, while still maintaing accuracy. And due to its mechanical nature you quickly develop an innate sense of how fast and far you're scrolling, thus making it more ergonomic as well. These basic principles don't just apply here, but to keyboards as well, it's why the old IBM Model Ms are so much better than any modern keyboard.

 

[viator122]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IstariAsuka Well, I'll give some examples of how they're behind the curve iPod Shuffle: No screen. That fact is exaserbated by no effective playlist skipping on the player. Also, no radio, replaceable battery, EQ, etc. It has less features and is less usable. iPod Mini: CRAP BATTERY LIFE. Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No self-constructing database. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive. iPod: Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive. Does not include dock (especially considering it's price).

Your issues with the GUI are personal preference and don't really speak to whether or not Apple is behind the curve. As for the examples you list above, you're right about no customizable EQ, radio and battery issues. I don't think this necessarily means that Apple is behind the curve, these seem like design choices to me (except for the battery life). I think the iPod and mini are quite small.

 

[bahamaman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IstariAsuka You're stupid

And just how IstariAsuka, does that advance the topic at hand (which, if you've forgotten, is about a new iPod Mini)?

I was actually interested in hearing a discussion of the Mini, but, as is increasingly true in this forum, a few members have yet again jacked the thread so as to perpetuate their tiresome harangue.

 

[zhenya]

Quote:

Originally Posted by IstariAsuka Well, I'll give some examples of how they're behind the curve iPod Shuffle: No screen. That fact is exaserbated by no effective playlist skipping on the player. Also, no radio, replaceable battery, EQ, etc. It has less features and is less usable.

Do you really think Apple just 'missed the ball' on this one? I don't. Just because it doesn't provide what *you* want doesn't mean it's not a darn useful device for a lot of people for whom it meets_their_needs. A device this small is in no way hindered by lack of a radio or a replaceable battery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IstariAsuka iPod Mini: CRAP BATTERY LIFE. Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No self-constructing database. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive.

Battery life could be better, I'll give you that one. Can you tell me (seriously, I'd like to know) about better OTG playlisting on another player or what a self constructing database does? Again, I could care less if I had a radio on a portable device. Same goes for an EQ.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IstariAsuka iPod: Mediocre OTG playlisting. Not all that small. No radio, replaceable battery, EQ that doesn't suck, or customizable EQ. Expensive. Does not include dock (especially considering it's price). Furthermore, the actual iPod GUI is not all that great. Sure, it's simple, but I fail to see how it's any easier to use than the Karma interface. It has lots of small things that irk me, like how if you go to the menu after starting a song, it takes you back to the node you were at, and you have to press menu repeatedly to get back to the base menu. Another thing: once you get to the root menu you can't just push menu again to get back to the currently playing song, you have to scroll down to the bottom and select "now playing." Also, on the Karma you can select a specific letter in the alphabet first, and then scroll through those songs/albums/whatever. This is much faster than having to go through them all. There's absolutely no reason for these things, and they're quite annoying. I also don't particularly like the scroll wheel. It's freaking slow compared to my Karma for one handed operation. Apple should have stuck with a mechanic wheel; they had it right the first time. A mechanical wheel allows for much faster scrolling, a la Karma, while still maintaing accuracy. And due to its mechanical nature you quickly develop an innate sense of how fast and far you're scrolling, thus making it more ergonomic as well. These basic principles don't just apply here, but to keyboards as well, it's why the old IBM Model Ms are so much better than any modern keyboard.

Most of your above points come down to personal preference, not Apple being "behind the curve." Some of the little things in the menu are a pain. I disagree about the scroll-wheel though, I find that I can control its speed very accurately and find anything in seconds.

It's fine if you like a different player better, but it's irritating that it's becoming fashionable on hi-end audio boards to consider ipod users dupes who have fallen prey to slick advertising. Believe me, I'm usually the first to point out when mass-market products are really just cheap knock-offs with a slick marketing campaign. But the ipod has succeeded because it's a really well designed device, that happens to have a slick marketing campaign attached to it.

 

[sno1man]

yeah, I think that Beethoven is all marketing and hype, Philip Glass is much better since he uses more modern instruments and stuff.........

I'm looking to forward to what the new mini might offer. This one wont be a slam dunk like my original mini was. The bar has been raised

And yes, if the micro had been available when I bought my mini I might have bought instead.

The only thing I know for sure is that new mini means old mini is not going to fetch as much on ebay

 

[yyoo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmmmmm This debate is really sad and pathetic. Anyone who blindly defends only one thing (mp3 player, political party, shampoo, or anything else) is a closed-minded idiot. I'm here because I enjoy music, mp3 players, etc, learning about everything, and helping out other people. I'm not here to convert everyone to a certain mp3 player or tell anyone that their mp3 player sucks. If you like one, great, get it. If you hate one, then fine too, don't buy it. There are bigger things in the world.

Right.

So why is that you come with your snarky "I know I can't wait for the big news" to this thread? And why is that anyone who strongly advocates a player, particularly an iPod, is a "close-minded idiot"? Is it not possible for people to come to well thought out positions of advocacy? I don't insult others for owning or advocating a particular DAP. I even enter these discussions under the assumption that most folks here aren't idiots and the choices that they've made were perhaps the right choices for THEM, though they may not be the right choices for ME.

P.S. What's with your advocacy of the Karma at every opportunity? Is this just a case of the pot calling the kettle black? Feel free to advocate the Karma, but don't begrudge iPod advocates the same freedom.

 

[mrboarderman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zhenya Do you really think Apple just 'missed the ball' on this one? I don't. Just because it doesn't provide what *you* want doesn't mean it's not a darn useful device for a lot of people for whom it meets_their_needs. A device this small is in no way hindered by lack of a radio or a replaceable battery. Battery life could be better, I'll give you that one. Can you tell me (seriously, I'd like to know) about better OTG playlisting on another player or what a self constructing database does? Again, I could care less if I had a radio on a portable device. Same goes for an EQ. Most of your above points come down to personal preference, not Apple being "behind the curve." Some of the little things in the menu are a pain. I disagree about the scroll-wheel though, I find that I can control its speed very accurately and find anything in seconds. It's fine if you like a different player better, but it's irritating that it's becoming fashionable on hi-end audio boards to consider ipod users dupes who have fallen prey to slick advertising. Believe me, I'm usually the first to point out when mass-market products are really just cheap knock-offs with a slick marketing campaign. But the ipod has succeeded because it's a really well designed device, that happens to have a slick marketing campaign attached to it.

Exactly.

I sport my iPod in pride. It fits ME.

Radio issue: Why? The radio at leas around here sucks big time.
Battery: O well, you win some you lose some.
EQ: There are vey few solid players on the market that have a good EQ.

Not to mention the accessories for iPods are great. Easy to find EXACTLY what you are looking for. For instance, I was looking for a sleek case that not many would have and behold I found someone who will be making CNCed cases very shortly. Check it: http://forums.ipodlounge.com/showthr...threadid=74274

To argue about this is just basically silly. However, I believe it is wrong to say Apple is behind the curb because they know what people generally need and they are giving it to people.

Think what you want. But I say we get back at the subject at hand.

I think it is a no brainer for the mini to drop its price and come out with a color screen. Look at iRiver right now, 5GB player available for about 250 if you do some good searching. The current mini is 4GB and $250. While Apple has the world of Mp3 players' balls in a vise currently, any person would see what was a better deal. If they want to just keep a 4GB version or even add a 6GB or greater (also i feel very necessary), they must lower the price on the 4GB to stay as much of a threat as they are.

They is no doubt that both of these things will happen shortly. And be prepared for it to be hard to get a hold of these puppies.

I know that the new 4GB will probably find its way in wrapping paper for my dad's birthday.