[sghound]

Sghound, are you using the 120vac or 220vac version of the SMSL P1? I'm curious as my 110vac model gets warm but never seems to get hot Not nearly as warm as my Asgard 2 or even a LH Geek Out 1000. I wonder if the higher voltage units may get warmer.
 

 
220
 
i cannot touch it without almost scalding.

 

[Peter78]

   
220
 
i cannot touch it without almost scalding.

 
Interesting.  I'm currently waiting for my M8 & P1 (110V) to arrive.  I hope that my P1 doesn't get as hot as what's been reported here (at least for the 220V version).

 

[Katji]

i searched ebay for a CPU heatsink like the Intel P3 one that was shown here, but couldn't find anything like it. Would be better than just adding a chunk of aluminium like a standard heatsink. ...Only other thing i can think of is having a little fan, battery-powered, standing next to the P1.

 

[PLazarou]

Can someone explain why this DAC offers a power supply that is bigger than the unit itself? I don't understand why some highly-regarded DACs are tiny and run off a basic wall wart or even just USB, whereas this P1 supposedly dramatically improves sound quality. Is it because the included adapter is terrible? Is the M8 made in such a way that is incredibly susceptible to power supply problems, or would any DAC also benefit from something like the P1? Would buying a generic but higher quality adapter also improve sound quality?

 

[hpamdr]

Supplied switching poer supply is not terrible and M8 quality in standard is already very good !
Most of DAC are sensible to power and usb noise. So yes most of other DAC that needs 9v external  can use p1 and if you already have a regulated power supply that deliver very stable 9V you can use it with M8.
 
If you do not have a very dynamic amplifier in most case the enhancement is not so huge IMO. But as you spend 100$ this is sure that you must notice something

 

[Katji]

Can someone explain why this DAC offers a power supply that is bigger than the unit itself?

Size, "form factor."  P1 PSU is same L and W as M8 DAC and V2 headphone amp. H is more because of the transformer coil.
 

I don't understand why some highly-regarded DACs are tiny and run off a basic wall wart or even just USB

USB for portability and convenience, desktop use with "computer speakers"/desktop speakers.
 
Price point.
 
Look at the size and shape of "wall wart" transformers/PS compared to the size of small DACs.

This way, modular, we are not limited to a built-in/integrated PSU. (How important PS is in hi-fi audio generally is a whole 'nother story.)
In this case, the M8, it is not portable because it is not USB-powered.

Look at the cost and the price point. Integrating the P1 PSU into the M8 DAC would mean approx. 80% higher price. (And about 3x the height - or approx. 50% wider, and they wanted to have the same matching length and width.)
"Higher-end" DACs with built-in PSU are more like the typical size of amps and CD players and so on. (And price from about $600, $1000 up.)
 

Is it because the included adapter is terrible?

No, the included PSU is just a typical generic thing.
 

Would buying a generic but higher quality adapter also improve sound quality?

No.  Or possibly/theoretically, but i don't know how you'd be sure about generic but higher quality.  Possibly/theoretically at best because they're all basically the same design. The P1 is a linear power supply...costs more, is more stable, less noisy.
 

Is the M8 made in such a way that is incredibly susceptible to power supply problems, or would any DAC also benefit from something like the P1?

No, it is general/typical.
Yes, any DAC (aside from $$$$ DACs with expensive built-in PSU.)  Amps and so on generally too. PSU is key in amplifier designs.
 
PS:  Read back from here - same topic, sheds more light. (And - in my opinion - why the SMSL M8 is better if you're not buying a $$$$ DAC.) http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,46494.msg608379.html#msg608379

 

[PLazarou]

  Supplied switching poer supply is not terrible and M8 quality in standard is already very good !
Most of DAC are sensible to power and usb noise. So yes most of other DAC that needs 9v external  can use p1 and if you already have a regulated power supply that deliver very stable 9V you can use it with M8.
 
If you do not have a very dynamic amplifier in most case the enhancement is not so huge IMO. But as you spend 100$ this is sure that you must notice something

 
 

  Size, "form factor."  P1 PSU is same L and W as M8 DAC and V2 headphone amp. H is more because of the transformer coil.
 
USB for portability and convenience, desktop use with "computer speakers"/desktop speakers.
 
Price point.
 
Look at the size and shape of "wall wart" transformers/PS compared to the size of small DACs.

This way, modular, we are not limited to a built-in/integrated PSU. (How important PS is in hi-fi audio generally is a whole 'nother story.)
In this case, the M8, it is not portable because it is not USB-powered.

Look at the cost and the price point. Integrating the P1 PSU into the M8 DAC would mean approx. 80% higher price. (And about 3x the height - or approx. 50% wider, and they wanted to have the same matching length and width.)
"Higher-end" DACs with built-in PSU are more like the typical size of amps and CD players and so on. (And price from about $600, $1000 up.)
 
No, the included PSU is just a typical generic thing.
 
No.  Or possibly/theoretically, but i don't know how you'd be sure about generic but higher quality.  Possibly/theoretically at best because they're all basically the same design. The P1 is a linear power supply...costs more, is more stable, less noisy.
 
No, it is general/typical.
Yes, any DAC (aside from $$$$ DACs with expensive built-in PSU.)  Amps and so on generally too. PSU is key in amplifier designs.
 
PS:  Read back from here - same topic, sheds more light. (And - in my opinion - why the SMSL M8 is better if you're not buying a $$$$ DAC.) http://www.avforums.co.za/index.php/topic,46494.msg608379.html#msg608379

Thank you for both of your replies! And thank you Katji for the amount of detail you provided. There is a lot to digest. So would it be fair to say that a USB-powered DAC is most susceptible to audio problems, a compact desktop DAC with a standard power adapter somewhat less so, and the high-end DAC with built-in PSU (and alternatively something like the P1) the least problematic?
 
In terms of the effect of this less-than-optimal power on USB and standard power adapter DACs, is this primarily a stability/interference sort of thing, or is it more about body and tone? When I read reports of a different PSU or cable giving a DAC a richer bass or fuller midrange, I get very confused, because my impression is that it is the headphones and the amp that have the biggest influence on that... I thought a DAC was just about providing an accurate signal to an amp, and then the amp and headphones can give it the 'personality' if necessary...

 

[hpamdr]

  In terms of the effect of this less-than-optimal power on USB and standard power adapter DACs, is this primarily a stability/interference sort of thing, or is it more about body and tone? When I read reports of a different PSU or cable giving a DAC a richer bass or fuller midrange, I get very confused, because my impression is that it is the headphones and the amp that have the biggest influence on that... I thought a DAC was just about providing an accurate signal to an amp, and then the amp and headphones can give it the 'personality' if necessary...

- you are right, usb powered dac are less than optimal and some people add unit like wyrd or power decoupling unit to enhance what is supplied by the computer usb power.
- in M8 like in most usb DAC, you have a USB interface (XMOS), a DAC (ESS) and an output stage.
- the line output stage is mini amplifier and this part need some current to work well. If your power supply is not stable enough you can detect lack of dynamic or bass. You cannot really call this personallity (unless you have a tube DAC).
 
So even with DAC a linear power supply (Not a monster) can have influence.
 
But to notice more efficiently/easilly, you must have good cans and good amplifier.

 

[SanderK]

I have had this DAC for a couple of months and it has been excellent. Nice build quality, small footprint and the latest USB XMOS U8 implementation. I use it in combination with the P1 PSU which to me is well worth the cost, it is a clear improvement even on modest systems. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the standard M8 though, at the price. I am using it in a system with a Marantz PM-14 from 2001 and B&W CDM-7-SE speakers. 
Setting things up is a breeze on Jriver Media Center, including DSD.  When playing DSD tracks it converts everything to PCM (DoP), not sure how much impact this has, recordings still sound clearly better than Redbook. 
 
New XMOS U8 USB drivers on the SMSL website, including a Windows 10 version, good to see continuous support.
http://smsl-audio.com/index.php?c=msg&id=1375&

 

[PLazarou]

I remain interested in this M8. I'm looking at it in comparison to a Schiit Modi 2 Uber, as I seem to be able to buy them for roughly the same price in the UK.
 
Looking at the various specs of SNR, THD, etc, much of which I'm not going to pretend to understand, the M8 appears to be superior. But then I look at other very expensive DACs and those kind of specs also look pretty similar. So the whole thing seems meaningless... indeed I can't even find this data on a lot of DAC spec sheets.
 
So should I even be looking at specs? How can I know whether this is the better buy than the Modi 2 Uber?

 

[Cukedaddy]

I would say just by the more features... That and the fact people love it... But if you listen to headphones at all, I recommend the SMSL M6 which has a headphone amp also

 

[PLazarou]

I would say just by the more features... That and the fact people love it... But if you listen to headphones at all, I recommend the SMSL M6 which has a headphone amp also

I'm interested particularly in terms of headphones. I already have a dedicated headphone amp (Corda Jazz) so I'm looking for a neat standalone DAC to go with it.

 

[Cukedaddy]

Then I would go M8

 

[PLazarou]

Then I would go M8

Any particular reason why I should pick the M8 over the Modi 2 Uber?
 
I've posted some more detail about my situation in this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/790237/x-fi-hd-digital-music-premium-hd-query
 
Seems like not many people visit that part of the forum...

 

[Cukedaddy]

It sounds like you wouldn't be upgrading if you bought the Schitt... To be honest, it sounds like you already have what you need... If it was me, I'd make sure I could return whatever is gotten just in case you're not satisfied