[arnaud]

 
Quote:

I find the 007A is about as bright a phones as I can take so the 009 sounds problematic.  The 007A has both a bass and an lower treble peak which I estimate more about 8 kHz.  Spritzer's spring mod (i.e.flattening the spring) definitely helped smooth these out and it seems as the ear pads compress, the sound is getting smoother yet again.
 
Why  I say the peak is at  8kHz is because the 007A brings up tape hiss on old analog recordings and when I have played with an equalizer, a boost at about 8kHz has the same effect.

 
Hi Ed,  you seem to be fighting the urge to dive in since the news broke that Stax was releasing the 009. It is a safe attitude regardless as there are certainly people who won't be able to take the shift in tonality from the 007 to 009. In regards to your point about treble peak though, there is a chance that it might get better with the 009 though. For instance, while poor quality recordings are mostly a no no proposition for the 009, there were some pieces of music that actually were easier sounding through the 009 compared to my 007A. I am not sure which version of 007A I have since I kind of did the flat spring mod but did not notice a drastic shift in sound.
 
I guess, there's no going around to listen to the 009 for yourself. Don't jump on it given your predisposition to not liking it, but clearly don't cross it out just yet as you may be missing something really special...

 

[arnaud]

I have to admit I have only seldom gone back to the 007A after getting my 009, like maybe ... 1 hour total over the past couple of months, and only at the beginning I got the 009... After replying to your message Ed, I did a quick comparison again. Since it had been quite some time, the 007A felt actually weird on my head. I feel the 009 fits so much better, it's like I don't have a proper seal with the 007A in comparison. 
 
I just listened to 2 recordings: the 96/24 HD tracks versions of REM's Out of Time and currently listening to Jamie Cullum's 20 something. With my gear, the REM recording is ok but borderline aggressive through the 009. It's actually more pleasurable through the 007A even though the resolution is nowhere near that of its more expensive sibling. On the other hand, I could not stand the 007A more than 1 minute when listening to the much cleaner recording from Jamie Cullum. The 007A is muddy (I insist again: through my gear), dark, just paling in comparison with the 009.
 
The bottom line is that, really it's all going to depend on the kind of music you listen to. My understanding was that you listen mostly to classical music Ed, no? In which case, I can't imagine you preferring the 007A (I rarely come across poorly recorded classical recordings). On the other hand, if my music was mostly rock, I am not sure I would want to acquire the 009, due to its ruthlessly revealing nature.
 
I feel like the same point is being discussed over and over, it's time for experienced head-fiers to receive their pair and inject some fresh blood to this thread...

 

[edstrelow]

I have picked up from this site that the Stax 009's are something special and I look forward to hearing them.  Their high cost is an issue with 2 kids starting college, but even that can be finessed.  However my enthusiasm is  dampened by the several comments I have read, including your own (M. Arnaud), about their revealing nature making them unsuitable for use with significant areas of music. This does not sound like a tonal issue which one is going to get used to in any reasonable period of time.  While I love classical music and these phones would probably be excellent with them, my tastes are pretty catholic (note the small "c").  So for me this issue takes them out of the realm of "must have" to simply "great phones" but not on my immediate to-do list, rather like the HE-90's.
 
I also have a residual irritation with Stax about not getting the tonal balance right on its flagship.  This has been a recurring issue with Stax, that so many of its otherwise great phones have suffered the defect of not being listenable on a large body of music.
 
My first Stax was the SRXIII, which is a fine phone, but somewhat thin sounding, not so much because of a treble peak but because of deficient bass.  Many years later I got the contemporaneous Stax SR5, which I think has the tonal balance issue down much better and I found myself thinking, I wish these had been my first set rather than the SRXIII. 
 
Similarly, all the Lambdas I have had and heard have suffered from treble peakiness to one degree or another.  However their drivers work well in the Sigma enclosures, for which, of course,  they were originally designed. While the Sigmas may have too little treble and  tend towards  some boominess, still, I like  their sound and can be pretty sure if I give them to  non-audiophiles they will appreciate these phones without handing them  back to me saying they are harsh sounding. Similarly, the 003's although somewhat limited in resolution,  are very listenable on a wide variety of music and I have enjoyed them considerably even on the little Stax portable amp.
 
Now I am not sure if acoustic detail can be fully resolved without  good high frequency performance of the driver.  So maybe inevitably any highly resolving phone will be treble rich compared to less resolving phones.  But the comparison of the Lambdas with the Sigmas shows that you can take identical drivers and still produce a much less harsh sounding phone with a different enclosure.
 
Also, all things being equal, pumping up the treble will increase high frequency detail where the upper harmonics are, thus making the sound more detailed,  but unnaturally so.  I think that this is a ploy with some audiophile phones to give them a resolution bump.
 
I have also felt that given the treble issues in many Stax phones, the company should have at least included a defeatable tone control or filter on its amps.  But of course this type of control gets attacked by audio purists.
 
I believe that one of the fundamental problems with high-end audio is that is too much of a male-dominated field. The reason this is a problem has nothing to do with politics but is that men tend to have poorer high frequency hearing even when quite young and it lose it even more than women as they age. The difference seems to be in part inherent in the basic physics of sound such as the resonances of the auditory canal and ossicles (the bones that transmit sound from the eardrum to the cochlea)  are higher in women and children.  Also men tend to expose themselves to more loud noises and lose hearing for that reason as well as other health reasons.
 
So when a middle-age man develops a phone, it may sound good to him but treblish to a woman or younger person or even older man who has kept his hearing in better shape.  I think this hearing issue has shaped the audio business to its detriment.
 
 
These are some sources I googled up, not necessarily the best.  Interestingly  there is speculation that the high frequency hearing differences between the sexes may be responsible for the well-documented female advantages in learning language skills, i.e. their better high frequency hearing makes it easier for them to understand what is being said to them as children.
 
http://www.genderdifferences.org/hearing.htm
 
http://www.arlenetaylor.org/sensory-preference/423-gender-hearing-differences
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[David1961]

At the moment l only have Shure se535's, pico slim and an ipod, l did have, SR007Mk1, SRM007t and an Esoteric x-03se but l'm using them as part exchange for a K-01,  because it won't be until maybe march next year before l can get the K-01, l was considering getting the Audeze LCD-2 to use with the pico slim and ipod because l've heard it's an easy headphone to drive, however l'm not sure what to do because my next headphone system is going to be, SR-009's, BHSE which l placed an order for in March and the Esoteric K-01, can anyone give me any advice.
                                                           Dave.
 
P.S. Although the Shure se535's are a great sounding earphone, l don't really enjoy having them in my ears for a long period of time which is the reason why l thought about the LCD-2's, having said that the LCD-2's in the UK are over £1000 which would delay me getting the K-01, again advice please anyone.

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

I have picked up from this site that the Stax 009's are something special and I look forward to hearing them.  Their high cost is an issue with 2 kids starting college, but even that can be finessed.  However my enthusiasm is  dampened by the several comments I have read, including your own (M. Arnaud), about their revealing nature making them unsuitable for use with significant areas of music. This does not sound like a tonal issue which one is going to get used to in any reasonable period of time.  While I love classical music and these phones would probably be excellent with them, my tastes are pretty catholic (note the small "c").  So for me this issue takes them out of the realm of "must have" to simply "great phones" but not on my immediate to-do list, rather like the HE-90's.
 

This is exactly how I categorized the HE-90s, and am starting to regretfully lump the SR-009 into.  I do have a feeling I might have a chance to demo the SR-009 sometime in the next several months, but think it's unlikely that I'll run across the Orpheus.
 
I listen to a lot of electronica, hip-hop, metal, and rock, so I like having some bass and a moderate amount of brightness.  I haven't heard enough high-end headphones to be able to pinpoint what's characterized as dark sound, but if it's anything like the LCD-2s, I don't mind it too much.  If the SR-007A had any less bass, I'd be dissatisfied with them and would revert back to a dynamic setup.  I have a feeling the GES may be partially to blame, and am hoping that the BHSE and a high-end DAC will largely resolve this problem.
 
As a classically trained musician, I don't like listening to classical or acoustic from recordings, because every audio representation I've heard of those recordings sounds lacking compared to the real deal.  Maybe the SR-009 (or even HE-90) would be able to change my mind, but it's probably more a matter of a recording never really being able to faithfully encapsulate the music.  I can appreciate virtuoso performances on a technical level, but I'd much rather play a suite or concerto myself (or with friends) than listen to one.  Headphones can't compete with a 200-300 year old German or Italian-made string instrument.
 
Anyway, I wanted to give a little background to qualify my new hesitation about the SR-009.  I think part of the reason I like metal and rock is because I'm not a guitarist or drummer, so the SR-007A gives me something I'm not qualified for, while I'm pretty bored with classical.  I'm concerned that the SR-009 will take away from what I like, and add to what I don't really need more of.

 

[silverlight]

Quote:

 


I find the 007A is about as bright a phones as I can take so the 009 sounds problematic.  The 007A has both a bass and an lower treble peak which I estimate more about 8 kHz.  Spritzer's spring mod (i.e.flattening the spring) definitely helped smooth these out and it seems as the ear pads compress, the sound is getting smoother yet again.
 
Why  I say the peak is at  8kHz is because the 007A brings up tape hiss on old analog recordings and when I have played with an equalizer, a boost at about 8kHz has the same effect.
 
 


It sounds as if you enjoyment of the 009 has taken a big jump up. Could this be a break-in or an adjustment of your own taste? Would you still say the 009's are a 10-15% improvement over the 007's?
 

 
It's hard to quantify the improvement as it will different for everyone, but in my system the gap in enjoyment is significant and they are much more enjoyable.  The gap may be narrower than with a BHSE comparison for example.  However I far prefer how the music is presented in terms of soundstage/imaging.  It's more intimate sounding as vocals are presented "closer" and more up front while the accompaniment is set back (giving a more realistic presentation).
 
 

 

[EphemeralHope]

^ If you have the money, definitely grab a pair. After I heard the 007s, I wasn't too excited about the 009s - the 007s were more technical then orthos, but really not "king" of headphones overall. I could put down the 007s after an hour or a few songs and be much more than content moving on doing other things. But after I heard the 009s, I couldn't put them down.

 

[googleli]

Listening to the debut album of 2V1G, a Taiwanese female vocal duet plus solo guiatr group. Quite simply put, this is just amazing - the imaging, the lushenss of the voices, the naturalness of the guitar. It is not even transparent. Not even "effortless". These descriptions are only for the inferior headphones.  "Transparent" means there is still something in between. "Effortless" still connotes to the meaning of a certain "effort". With the SR009, the voices and the guitar are "just there". 
 
You are not even in the studio. In a stuido the producer listens behind the glass. With the 009 you are in the room with the singer. Right there singing. Nothing in between. I just can't imagine how far the BHSE can take it further... But I guess I will find out, eventually...

 

[Elysian]

Could someone familiar with Stax's pricing cycles share whether they think it's likely that the street price on the 009 might drop from the $5200 MSRP within the next year or two?  I think I read that the O2 received quite a haircut from its original price to the current going rate (now $2600 new).
 
I'm debating between upgrading my source to a top-tier one down the line (like the DAC IV, Medea, etc.), or moving from the 007A to 009, and I think the headphone upgrade would make a more noticable difference.

 

[David1961]

Quote:

Could someone familiar with Stax's pricing cycles share whether they think it's likely that the street price on the 009 might drop from the $5200 MSRP within the next year or two?  I think I read that the O2 received quite a haircut from its original price to the current going rate (now $2600 new).
 
I'm debating between upgrading my source to a top-tier one down the line (like the DAC IV, Medea, etc.), or moving from the 007A to 009, and I think the headphone upgrade would make a more noticable difference.

l'm not familiar with Stax's pricing cycles, however l'm getting the SR-009's later this year early next from www.pricejapan.com ,try having a look on their website
 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Could someone familiar with Stax's pricing cycles share whether they think it's likely that the street price on the 009 might drop from the $5200 MSRP within the next year or two?  I think I read that the O2 received quite a haircut from its original price to the current going rate (now $2600 new).
 
I'm debating between upgrading my source to a top-tier one down the line (like the DAC IV, Medea, etc.), or moving from the 007A to 009, and I think the headphone upgrade would make a more noticable difference.

Your best bet in terms of price reductions is probably a Japanese import. The O2 Mk2 price actually went UP by some $500 or so to the current $2600 new. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the SZ2/SZ3 change, or if Stax just decided to raise prices. That, or just wait for them to begin showing on the used market. I picked up my O2 Mk1 for $1400.
 

 

[edstrelow]

I see the PriceJapan at US$4,423  for the 009.      ff for                    for the 009, so that is a drop.  EIFL still lists the 007A at $1,900, only  a bit more than I paid a couple of years ago from them.  However,I would confirm this with them since their site hasn't been updated in a while.
 
  I wonder if Stax really did change anything with the 007A models?  They haven't seen fit to designate this fact if it is  a fact. A lot of this seems like based on people saying "I heard a newer model and it sounds different than I remembered the old models so they must have change the construction."   This type of observation seems totally suspect to me.  What is needed is for someone to get an early and a late model and do a simultaneous compariosn.  So far I haven't heard such of this being done.
 
One overlooked factor in different sound signature coming form the same models of phones is simply wear on earpads.  As the pads compress the dirvers get closer to the ears, the volume of air in the chanber decreases and the seal should get better, all matters which could change sound.
 
 
 
 
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

  I wonder if Stax really did change anything with the 007A models?  They haven't seen fit to designate this fact if it is  a fact. A lot of this seems like based on people saying "I heard a newer model and it sounds different than I remembered the old models so they must have change the construction."   This type of observation seems totally suspect to me.  What is needed is for someone to get an early and a late model and do a simultaneous compariosn.  So far I haven't heard such of this being done.

As far as I know there are in fact three distinct versions of the Omega 2, designated by serials that start with SZx. SZ1 is the Mk1, SZ2 is the Mk2, and SZ3 is the newest, so called "Mk2.5".
 

 

[David1961]

l've a feeling Stax earspeakers must not depreciate very much, if at all, l say that because l'm in the process of selling my SR-007 MK1's via an Audio dealer and he told me he might have a buyer for them, he also told me how much he was asking for them and it's a couple hundred pounds more than l bought them for, however it was the year 2000 when l got them.
 
                                                                  

 

[Elysian]

Thanks for the pricejapan link!  $4400 is definitely much more palatable than $5200.  I'll keep an eye on this site and see what happens with the pricing.
 
If more superlative reviews come out as the current groupbuy participants get their orders satisfied, it'll get more and more difficult to resist pulling the trigger on this one.