[Elysian]

Quote:

You're willing to drop up to $10k on a DAC that might just barely be distinguishable in blind testing, but not a new generation headphone which will may provide a whole new soundscape? Surely with the equipment you have right now you can tailor any well-made headphone to your ideal sound. If the SR-009 is fatiguing, the first thing I'd do is a tone sweep to identify problem areas and eliminate them from EQ. For instance, I love the HD800, but after a while I had to create an eq profile for it not to kill my ears on the sibilant tracks. No headphone will have a perfectly behaved high end, unless it's grossly recessed, and Stax obviously wanted greater highs after all the mythology of the mellow SR-007.

$10k better spent than on power conditioners and cyro-treated USB cables   Given how many folks here are sporting 01 and 03 series Esoteric gear, I think most are willing to play in this price category if they feel they're getting their money's worth.
 
The difference is that, supposedly, DACs get better as you move up the price-performance curve.  I trust the Berkeley Audio team so I'm going to spend a long-time with the Alpha DAC and learn that device inside and out, and then use that as my frame of reference when moving up the gear curve.
 
The difference with changing headphones vs changing source is that the SR009 is that it's not necessarily an improvement over the O2 series, depending on what you're looking for.  If you pull the EQ argument, then sure, you can significantly change the sound signature of any set of phones.  At a meet, I'd like to see someone do a proper EQ, because I've never been able to do one, and anything off base settings really bothers me.  I think people here are pretty understanding that different people have different preferences.  Some people are bothered by high treble and slight sibilance.  Others aren't, or even seek it out.
 
Anyway, I'm not sure why you're so dismissive about sources.  I'll happily admit I haven't been one of the lucky few to compare dCS vs EMM vs Esoteric gear, but I'm reading up on it as much as I can, and once I'm familiar with a quality piece of price-performance gear (like the Berkeley or Weiss), I'll start venturing into high-end source and see if it's good for me.  From looking at your gear, I don't think you've lived with similar equipment.
 
Edit: Forgot to note, I've also tried and tweaked plug-ins like Isone Pro and absolutely despised what it did to the sound.  I found it a bit bizarre since so many people were raving about it, but to me, it sounded like someone just tried to make my headphones do a lousy simulation of poor speakers.  Just another observation on what a subjective hobby this is.

 

[googleli]

Also consider Playback Designs MPS-5, EMM Labs XPS-1, Naim CDP 555, Accuphase DP700 and Soulution 540. Some are in the US$40,000 USD category but if you are looking for one-box CD players these are about the best you can get. There is also one from Burmester but forgot its model name. 
 
Also interested to see if any Stax lovers here listen to their Staxes on vinyl - the price of some really good vinyl setups can go up to the better half of a million.
 

 

[anetode]

Oh, I'm not pretending like I've had the pleasure to sit down next to a well-polished forty-pound block of elite circuitry - the closest I've been to that was a couple of hours spent with the McIntosh MCD500 and some slick-looking Linn unit along with Grado GS1000s. And while the experience was enjoying, the sound remained the same. Once I adjusted to the weird mid-bass boost of the GS1000 it was easy to compensate and compare to what I've heard from the RS1.
 
No, I don't think it's worthwhile to put thousands of dollars into sources. Not when you can take their output and measure it against the competitors to get a difference of maybe .01 THD or a couple of decibles down by 20khz. At that point I'd look for a well-made DAC, an AD or TI or CS or AK or Wolfson, where all of their top models are comparable in performance, and find a decent implementation in a product worth, at most, fifteen hundred dollars. You could even lower it to a few hundred and dispense with the prestige and professional brands in favor of the Chinese market.
 
You're right about different perspectives. I think I understand yours, though I also think that you're chasing the dragon a bit, in terms of extravagant demos and purchases. The EQ thing wasn't meant to be an argument, it's just an undervalued tool. If you would care to invest some time in it, you might find new avenues to explore in hifi. Studies have shown that people generally look for an even response in loudspeakers, while in headphones it is much tougher to nail down the perfect neutral sound. If you identify that curve to compensate both HRTF and headphone frequency response differences, you would have a great baseline for finding a preferred sound.
 
I'd like to buy the SR-009 someday with a different mentality for it's use. I don't mean to entice it with various exotic tubes or monolithic sources, I want to see what it can do. Boost the low end and see if it remains clear, tame the peaks without making it seem veiled. It would be a shame to own such a fine headphone while only using it once in a while because of listener fatigue.

 

[Elysian]

Been trying to find more information on the MPS.  Definitely an interesting piece of kit, but haven't been able to find too many impressions.  I often wonder what the sales rate is on these devices.
 
I agree completely about the swiftly plateauing price-performance curve in audio, particularly within performance gains with headphones.  Would love to listen to some R10s someday, but once you start playing seriously in the electrostatic category, you've made a mental decision that you've gone further along the 'performance by any price necessary' than the vast majority who even consider headphones a hobby.  I think certain things are silly like $3k+ cables, but if you can look at the BOM of a d/a-a/d and the BOM and design makes sense to you, then more power to the people who appreciate the gear enough to buy it.
 
I don't think it's worth agonizing over too much once you're in the 5-figure range for a hobby.  If it makes you happy enough to be that little extra bit that keeps you pushing ahead at work or school everyday, then great.  The money can just as easily go towards upgrading a Carrera 4 to a Turbo, another expensive upgrade that's nonsensical given the nature of most countries' traffic laws and normal driving conditions.
 
Most likely, I'll also buy the SR009, even if I don't have a chance to demo it, out of curiosity.  Stax gear keeps good resale value for audio, and I know some people who want to use my SR007A once I'm bored with them.  I enjoy bringing friends and family into my hobbies so I'll just eat the loss if it makes someone else happy.  The thing I'm enjoying about the SR009 conversation is that there are posters who own the headphones who are openly frank about its pros and cons.  Normally Kool-aid mode is in full effect with high-end audio gear, so the blunt talk is refreshing.

 

[googleli]

Once you have spent enough on high end gear, you will notice that the Stax 009 is just worth as much as a pair of "snake oil" cables, then it would become a no brainer...

 

[kiertijai]

I also would like to confirm that pricejapan is a good place to buy the SR009.
I and another head-fier were the first two who purchased the SR009 from Kaneda Sensei and
the purchase went smoothly for both.  The price is lowest in Japan according to kakuten.com
My pair  doesn't have problem with the channel imbalance or noise.   I am waiting for
the US group buy to share their impression on SR009.
I also have the LCD2 rev1 and rev2 using Eddiecurrent's 300B Balancing Act.  I think
the LCD2 potential may be underestimated by the setup.   I have used the LCD2 with the ZDT
before although the ZDT has more driving power than the BA but the soundstage of the LCD2
are small, treble rolled off and decayed bass response.  However when using the 300B , WE 300B
original, tube rolling of the 6SN7 (RCA 6sn7 Brasilia) those drawbacks are gone to a very satisfactory
result while retaining its magic midrange.   I never compare LCD2 both versions with the SR009 A/B but
have compared SR009 with the HE90, SR Omega and O2mkI, mkII.  I think the SR009 is an excellent phone ,
natural,with clarity transparency, excellent soundstage and imaging.   However I later prefer the SR Omega or
HE90  because of the forwarding mid and more importantly the pace is faster with the SR009.   For me its treble is
just right for me, no sibilance while the bass quality is almost the same to HE90 or SR009 but definitely different
than the LCD2 which have decayed bass response with more impact and quantity.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Yeah, the SR009 is not an immediate purchase in my book.  Once I finish my Alpha DAC -> BHSE -> SR007A chain, I'm going to be looking at what I can do to improve the chain to increase the enjoyment I get of the music I like listening to (consequently, I enjoy musicality above having the most technically impressive presentation possible).  One option is increasing the quality of the source to something like a MSB Platinum DAC IV, Reimyo DAP-999EX, Meitner MA-1 (or maybe a dCS, but I need to find out if I actually get any enjoyment out of the final strata of sources (another $5k+ above the $5-10k category)).  Power conditioners and cables are snake oil, though I'm giving serious consideration to buying a lab quality cv transformer.  Main reservation is how heavy those things are

If you're considering spending MSB money, skip the Meitner and go for the real thing, the EMM DAC2 SE. You should also add the Bricasti M1 DAC and the MBL 1511F to your list. Have you found no performance benefit from every power conditioner and cable that you've tried, or have you never tried any and are going by what others have said about them? You know those same people will say that anyone who spends more than $500 on a DAC is a moron, right? All digital sources sound the same and measure perfectly, after all, and every DAC with a PLL can remove all jitter at the input stage.
 
Before dismissing an entire category of products, there are three you should try in your own home. The Audience AR6-TS, the Running Springs Dmitri, and the B-P-T BP-3.5 Signature. One is entirely cap based, one is some sort of cap and inductor based secret sauce, and one is a big ole balanced transformer. If none of them do anything, return them, and you can then dismiss power conditioners as useless.
 

 

[googleli]

I used to think people who buy any earphone or headphone more than $200 are nuts...

 

[David1961]

Quote:

I used to think people who buy any earphone or headphone more than $200 are nuts...

Hi googleli,
You're right, before l got the SR-007's [ which l no longer have ] l never dreamt about spending a lot of money on either earphones or headphones, but after listening to them l'm more than prepared to spend a large amount of money on better equipment, but my philosophy is you can't take it with you.
                                                                   Dave.
 
 

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveBSC /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Before dismissing an entire category of products, there are three you should try in your own home. The Audience AR6-TS, the Running Springs Dmitri, and the B-P-T BP-3.5 Signature. One is entirely cap based, one is some sort of cap and inductor based secret sauce, and one is a big ole balanced transformer. If none of them do anything, return them, and you can then dismiss power conditioners as useless.

I've read about the Audience and Running Springs.  It seems like conditions are a YMMV product depending on where you live.  If there's a lot of industry and companies using a high amount of power, then the conditioner is more useful during work hours.
 
Let me clarify since I think you misinterpreted my point.  I think buying something like the Shunyata Hydra Ray is useless when you can just buy a brand new lab grade ferroresonant cv transformer for less than 10% the price of an equivalent audiophile product.  The lab grade gear is specced and designed in every way to outperform the audiophile gear, and the only downside to it are noise and weight (the former can be dealt with by just putting it on the other side of the room).  The final nail in the coffin was Kevin Gilmore calling that particular entire line of audiophile products snake oil, and he also gave an endorsement to lab gear, which is a solution other HF users have also endorsed.

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

I've read about the Audience and Running Springs.  It seems like conditions are a YMMV product depending on where you live.  If there's a lot of industry and companies using a high amount of power, then the conditioner is more useful during work hours.
 
Let me clarify since I think you misinterpreted my point.  I think buying something like the Shunyata Hydra Ray is useless when you can just buy a brand new lab grade ferroresonant cv transformer for less than 10% the price of an equivalent audiophile product.  The lab grade gear is specced and designed in every way to outperform the audiophile gear, and the only downside to it are noise and weight (the former can be dealt with by just putting it on the other side of the room).  The final nail in the coffin was Kevin Gilmore calling that particular entire line of audiophile products snake oil, and he also gave an endorsement to lab gear, which is a solution other HF users have also endorsed.

The Hydras are really cynical devices. I think Shunyata's power cords are decent, but their power conditioners are just a way to fleece their customers. The Hydra 4 has all of.. $50 in build cost, depending on how much Shunyata spends on their cases. The actual active components amount to a few dollars. If you want to build your own Hydra, just buy some Vishay noise suppression caps ($2) and a couple of outlets, wire them together and put them in a box. Literally just about anyone can do it.
 
The B-P-T BP-1 on the other hand I think is actually a pretty good value. My BP-1 is a loaded to the gills Signature, which I got second hand for $330. At that price its steal of the century. The current BP-1 Ultra is around $1200 or so with similar stuff on it, and even at that level I think its pretty reasonable.
 

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

As far as I know there are in fact three distinct versions of the Omega 2, designated by serials that start with SZx. SZ1 is the Mk1, SZ2 is the Mk2, and SZ3 is the newest, so called "Mk2.5".
 

I am not disputing the difference between a Mk1 and an Mk2 or A model.  That has been well established, the Mk1 is fully sealing, the A has a port.  I also believe they had slightly different ear pads and spring configurations. Stax itself was  clear about the shift to the Mk2/A which they have not been ab

Ok.  But the difference between the 2 and the supposed 2.5 is they changed their third serial numbers?  That hardly indicates a distinct version.  Has anyone seen any external difference?  As I said  above, let's have someone who has both write  a review comparing them. All I have seen is I have a newer model and I think it sounds different from what I remember.
 
This is not even like the old SRM1Mk2 amps which Stax designated as A ####, B#### and C####.  I have both A and B models and can hear no obvious difference between them. Evidently these letters indicate the age of manufacture.  Given the complexity of amps, I would think there must be some differences inside, if only due to problems getting the same components over several years but this does not translate into a reworking of the sonic signature.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

The Mk2.5 doesn't look noticeably different from the Mk2, but IIRC there was some kind of change, as has been noted by several people around here. Spritzer is probably the best person to ask.

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

The B-P-T BP-1 on the other hand I think is actually a pretty good value. My BP-1 is a loaded to the gills Signature, which I got second hand for $330. At that price its steal of the century. The current BP-1 Ultra is around $1200 or so with similar stuff on it, and even at that level I think its pretty reasonable.

Interesting.  The 6moons review is glowing on the BP.  I wonder if there's any point getting the 3.5 over the 1.  I'll need to do more research.  The used units are far more sanely priced than the Shunyata snake oil, though I haven't seen something close to a $300-400 used signature unit yet.  If the unit runs silently then that's a very temping buy over lab equipment.
 
Guess it's time to hunt around for a used BPT unit.  I was just about to pull the trigger on another unit, too

 

[El_Doug]

ED just shipped the final batch of our SR-009s - can't wait to try them out!!!